Recipe for Kellerbier/Zwickel/Zoigl

I recently spent 3 years with the Army in Germany, and I fell in love with the kellerbier "style." It's also called Zwickelbier, Zoigl, or Landbier. The BJCP doesn't recognize the style, hence the quotes.

My favorite was Mahrs Bräu's kellerbier, brewed in the Franconian region (Bamberg) of southern Germany (Bayern) where the style originated. The brewery was pretty hard to find at first, but I can now find it in the dark, or rather, from here I can find my hotel in the dark!!

Anyway, the style is often referred to as an unfiltered Helles or Maertzen, but I think Bavarian brewers would disagree. "Brew Your Own" Magazine provided one recipe back in November 2005, but I'm wondering if anyone has developed something different.

Here's what BYO had:

Kellerbier by the numbers

OG 1.056 (14 °P)
FG 1.014 (3.5 °P)
SRM 10–20 (rarely lighter or darker)
IBU 35
ABV 5–5.5%

Caveman Kellerbier (5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)

OG = 1.056 FG = 1.014
SRM = 15 IBU = 35 ABV = 5.4%

Ingredients

8.0 lbs. (3.6 kg) Weyermann Bavarian Pilsner malt (2 °L)
3.75 lbs. (1.7 kg) Briess Munich malt (20 °L)
2 cups French oak chips (light toast)
8 AAU Hallertauer Mittelfrüh or Hersbrucker hops (bittering) (2 oz./55 g of 4% alpha acid)
1.5 oz. (42 g) Hallertauer Mittelfrüh or Hersbrucker hops (flavor/aroma)

1 pkg. Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager), Wyeast 2308 (Munich Lager), White Labs WLP838 (Southern German Lager), or White Labs WLP920 (Old Bavarian Lager) yeast

Prost!!

Looks like a fine recipe, but that is waaaaaaaaaay too much oak (even for something like an imperial stout). I've never tasted oak in the German versions, although I've only had a handful.

Here are some notes on a version someone is my club brews: http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1242661701&pg=7&tpg=1&add=1 its a good beer, pretty similar to the one you posted except that he adds Vienna instead of Munich and uses Spalt.

Do they not adhere to Reinheitsgebot? They must use something besides oak chips.

buckeyebrewer said:

Do they not adhere to Reinheitsgebot? They must use something besides oak chips.

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Yeah, they barrel age in oak barrels.

buckeyebrewer said:

Do they not adhere to Reinheitsgebot? They must use something besides oak chips.

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I assume the oak chips are to mimic oak barrel aging. I'm not sure how that is treated in Germany, but I assume it is allowed (not that I've heard of a German brewery doing it).

Also the Reinheitsgebot is no longer in effect (per Wikipedia):

In May 1988, a European Court of Justice ruling led to the Reinheitsgebot being lifted, allowing ingredients beyond what is listed in the Biergesetz; this meant that anything allowed in other foods was thus also allowed in beer. The ingredient requirements have since been moved from the Biersteuergesetz into the regular food additives laws, though beer brewed according to the Reinheitsgebot receives special treatment as a protected, "traditional" food.

Subscribed. I love keller bier. Please update with what you did and how close it came to the real thing when you're done. Might want to throw mellanoiden malt into the grist unless you plan on decocting.

Simps said:

Subscribed. I love keller bier. Please update with what you did and how close it came to the real thing when you're done. Might want to throw mellanoiden malt into the grist unless you plan on decocting.

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Will do!!

I concur with you on the addition of a bit (0.25 to 0.5 lb) of melanoidin malt... I'm not up for those 12-hour brew days! The BYO recipe calls for a 3-step infusion mash (122-148-156, then sparge at 170), so it'll already be a challenge just trying to hit all the numbers! The decoction would help me hit the numbers without actually infusing any additional water, but...

I also don't have access to 20L Munich. My Weyermann Munich II comes in at 12L, so I may also throw in an ounce or two of Carafa Special II (I'll let ProMash tell me how much), just for a bit more color.

I'm making the starter and the oak "tea" this evening, so I'll be brewing this recipe in a couple of days, lest I get some other recipe/process suggestions.

I'll give an evaluation after the brew day's over, and then again in a month or so...

Prost!!

I just pitched the yeast into a 500 ml starter... didn't realize my vial was so old. It had a Best Use By date of 11-09-2009!! I may have to hold off on brewing until the 31st or 1st..., after I step it up at least once more.

Still haven't pulled the grain bill yet, but I'm close.

I'll swap out the Munich with Vienna, and I'll use Spalter instead of the Mittelfrüh. I'll also add a bit of Carafa Special II just for color and an ounce or two of melanoidin in order to avoid having to do a decoction.

I also queried a couple of brewer's, hoping to get a little insight into the American versions - Harpoon and New Glarus. Not sure if they'll respond with any parameters, but my fingers are crossed!

Prost!!

... one other thought...

I may try a pinch of CaraAroma/Special B, based on the input from oldsock

The only Kellerbier I ever had was at my the brewery that opened up where I grew up. I can't speak to actual German versions, but I did not taste oak. Did you actually taste oak in the beer or are you just wanting to add the flavor? It's always been my understanding that a vast majority of the barrels used for beer are lined so the beer does not actually come in contact with the wood. I'm a fan of oaking beers so I say go for it but if you aren't looking for an oak flavor then leave the chips out. Also when I do oak I do like 1-2.5oz of cubes depending on the type of beer. I assume 2 cups worth of chips would be over kill.

Excellent choice using spalt! It's my favorite hop to use with rich german beers like bocks and marzens. It tastes the most authentic to me, and from what I have read some German brewers refuse to use anything else.

The keller bier I have had didn't taste like oak but it did appear to have a complexity I think was due to a mix of rich mellanoiden and slight oxidation from aging. I have never been to Germany though so maybe they taste different there (Mine have been out of swing-top bottles).

On a side note I try to avoid adding specialty grains purely for color to german beers. I tend to believe they traditionally get their color from munich and vienna malts, and the long decoctions. (especially since germany didn't have access to ingredients like crystal, roast, and black malt for a good portion of history) I had a bad experience with specialty grains affecting the flavor, but I'm sure you'll be fine. I use them in a lot of other things obviously, but have a personal aversion for them now when it comes to germans. Good luck.

smokinghole said:

The only Kellerbier I ever had was at my the brewery that opened up where I grew up. I can't speak to actual German versions, but I did not taste oak. Did you actually taste oak in the beer or are you just wanting to add the flavor? It's always been my understanding that a vast majority of the barrels used for beer are lined so the beer does not actually come in contact with the wood. I'm a fan of oaking beers so I say go for it but if you aren't looking for an oak flavor then leave the chips out. Also when I do oak I do like 1-2.5oz of cubes depending on the type of beer. I assume 2 cups worth of chips would be over kill.

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Yeah, I don't recall any oak flavors in any of the kellerbiers I've ever had either, and I've tried many from upwards of a dozen breweries. The BYO recipe called for an oak chip "tea" as follows:

"On the day before brew day, make an “oak chip tea” as follows: Mix about two cups of oak chips in hot but not boiling water (180 °F or 80 °C), in a tightly seal-able jar. Seal the hot jar, let it cool off, and then keep it in the refrigerator overnight. Before steeping, toast the oak chips on a cookie sheet in a 250 °F (121 ºC) oven for about an hour. Use the tea at pitching time."

I've pretty much convinced myself I'm going to skip the tea.

This thread got me thinking about when I was going to school in Lübeck where there's a great little brewery, Brauberger, that makes Zwickelbier. I'm not a Kellerbier expert but I think you're on track leaving the oak tea out. Their beer was served out of oak casks right at the bar but it is so fresh I can't see how it picked up, I didn't detect anything, oak flavors over the few days it was in the cask.

Keep us up to date! I'm going to have to add this to my to-brew list

CreekBrewery said:

This thread got me thinking about when I was going to school in Lübeck where there's a great little brewery, Brauberger, that makes Zwickelbier. I'm not a Kellerbier expert but I think you're on track leaving the oak tea out. Their beer was served out of oak casks right at the bar but it is so fresh I can't see how it picked up, I didn't detect anything, oak flavors over the few days it was in the cask.

Keep us up to date! I'm going to have to add this to my to-brew list

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Will do!!

My starter still hasn't hit full stride yet, so I'm delaying the brew day another day - maybe by Sunday!!

Now, if we can just convince the BJCP folks that this is a REAL style, they'll add it to their line-up and get it out of the "Specialty Beer" category. Then we can start bugging Jamil Zainasheff to give us an award-winning recipe in the Brewing Classic Styles 2nd Edition!! Maybe a Mahrs clone???

If Mahrs is as good as Monschof KellerBrau then I'm all for it. If you've never had Monschof you should definitely give it a go. It's unfiltered...I wonder if any of that yeast could be revived. It's probably the same as their other lagers, but if not we might have access to some high quality keller bier yeast!

If you ever see it try Mönchsambacher Lager, the best one I've had. I picked it up in New York a few years ago, and never saw it again.

I´m looking for Hacker-Pschorr Anno 1417 recipe, or help about the hops its use.

that´s what i going to brew this wekend...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 17,00 L
Boil Size: 26,45 L
Estimated OG: 1,055 SG
Estimated Color: 7,9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34,1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75,00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2,50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2,0 SRM) Grain 59,52 %
0,50 kg Caraamber (30,0 SRM) Grain 11,90 %
0,50 kg Vienna Malt (3,5 SRM) Grain 11,90 %
0,45 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2,0 SRM) Grain 10,71 %
0,25 kg Wheat, Flaked (1,6 SRM) Grain 5,95 %
14,00 gm Magnum [14,00 %] (90 min) Hops 31,1 IBU
10,00 gm Saaz [4,00 %] (15 min) Hops 2,9 IBU
10,00 gm Saaz [4,00 %] (0 min) Hops -
10,00 gm Saaz [4,00 %] (secondary) Hops -

----------------------------
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
20 min Step Add 12,60 L of water and heat to 40,40,0 C
10 min Protein Rest Heat to 50,0 C over 2 min 50,0 C
60 min Sacarification Heat to 65,5 C over 2 min 65,5 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75,0 C over 2 min 75,0 C


any suggestions?

It´s turn out very good, and been bottled at one week.

I am digging this thread, might have a go at some of this

Thanks for the update marcelo. How did you go about choosing your pilsner base malt? I've had issues finding anything quite as aromatic as what you get in a real German beer. Was the final beer close to anno 1417? I try to do side-by-sides as much as possible but it's hard to document everything you do!

Also, I has a suspicion that longer boils are really important for these, not just because of melanoiden but also general complexity. Did you feel 90 min was the right place to stop?

it's failed a test side by side, remembers very well the style, but was a little more bitter, and the next will slightly decrease the aromatics. was slightly turbid and the color very similar to 1417, but need to change the hop ... any idea which one to use? dry hop?

about the longer boil, I think you're right, I think also that decoction would be more appropriate for the style. when I find the most appropriate hops will repeat this recipe for sure.

I tried marcelo recipe and next time will reduce the amount of caramalts. Thinking of using more wheat malt and a little caramunich. Might this be possible that somehow adding hefe yeast will give yeasty cloudiness, that is in 1417?

definitely reduce sweet malts, and try to use spalt hops

with the release of the ECY28 Kellerbier, I'm going to try my hand at a Kellerbier sometime in Sept.

It`s nice and cold in celler and that means lagering and next attempt on brewing a nice kellerbier. I am hoping to get something similar to Anno 1417 but with more flavour. Not so sure about yeast but mauribrew lager gave me more robust lager character than other dry yeasts. Not abel or willing to make 3-4l starter from liquid version. But if that doesn`t work i`ll pick up some wyeast product
Planning to bottle condition and priming for 1,5-2 vol of carbonation.

Recipe for 37 L:

OG:1.051
IBU: 21
Color:6 EBC
Efficiency:80%
Boil time: 90 min
Fermentation: 1 month primary@ 12C, 1 month lagering@5C(even colder celler)
Yeast: Mauribrew lager

Grist:
Pilsner 5,3kg
Vienna 1,5 kg
Melanoiden 0,8 kg
Acid 0,2 kg

Hops:
FWH 20 g Magnum 11,9%
15 min 20 g Spalt 5,5%
1 min 20 g Spalt 5,5%

Mashing:
3 l/kg
infusion 55C for 15 min
decoction 62C for 30 min
decoction 71C for 30 min

All i need is time now

Wow this thread started in 2007 and I'm still more excited about this thread than any other recipe I've prepared yet! I am also nostalgic for those franconian beers that I remember. I lived in Nuremberg and my favorite was Zirndorfer brewery. I never really went to the brewery, but it's what we picked up at the store by the case and went to the park. Very delicious session beer IMO. I wonder if @Namako is still around and had any success/modifications since they started the thread?

This article was written while the thread was hibernating:

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-kellerbier/
I've found some commercial landbier in a local store, but can't find anything about how to make one.

Edit, just found this:
Here's a landbier recipe that calls for 30% dark Munich, 30% Munich type 1 and 30% pilsner and then small amounts of 3% each of roasted barley, caramunich 3, and caramunich 1. Looks interesting, I might try it.

Yeah I saw that too. That article inspired me to go with the yeast from that recipe, malts from this one: MaischeMalzundMehr and probably do 100% Mittelfrüh hops (because I brew 1-gallon batches and I have plenty leftover). I'm not sure how much to use. I might do the hopping schedule from that article with my Mittelfrüh hops