Brew tastes like very bitter grapefruit juice

Hey there,

this is my first time posting on HBT, i've found it very helpful to me over the last month.

this is my brother and i's first batch of brew, so we're kind of learning and making it up as we go along here.

we purchased an Oktoberfest Brew House kit from the beer store. it came with a large bag of wort, you don't have to add sugar, but the guy at the store said we can still do a boil if we want to add extra hops.

the two of us are huge hop heads and wanted to add some extra hop flavor. we only have a 4 L (~1 Gal) pot for doing our boiling in, but it's all we've got...

we boiled a portion of our wort for a total of one hour. we added 1/2 oz of mt. hood hops at the beginning of the boil, and added the other 1/2 ounce to the hop sock for the last 8 min.

everything was clean, except it took quite a while to cool down our wort to 78 decrees where we pitched.

we used a the Belgian Wyeast (i think), not sure what number... everything finally took off after about a 3 day stall (maybe a little more than 72 hours)

i wasn't home for it, but apparently the apartment reeked of eggs (sulfur) so bad that my little brother had to move the primary to a different room. pretty sure that's normal for a lager though.

after one week when fermentation had stopped, we racked it into a secondary fermenter (brightening tank) so it can clear a bit for a few weeks. by this time there was no egg smell, so i assume it was only yeast farts.

hydrometer reading was fine, 1.012 i think..

but when we gave it a taste, holy crap!!! that was by far the most bitter beer ive ever tasted in my life!!
very very bitter, and once you got past the bitterness, i thought it tasted like pink grapefruit juice and beer.

i know this is a long post, but i'm kinda worried that this bitterness won't mellow down over time, and we just made something undrinkable.

i totally love bitter IPAs and IIPAs, but this was way too much. like, 500 IBUs if i had to guess

did i just turn my poor oktoberfest into a IIIIPA? or worse?

thanks for reading!

The highest a wort can go is about 100 IBUs and since you diluted the boiled wort by 4:1 or so, the most you would have boosted the IBUs is about 20. 500 IBUs can be done using concentrates, but I can guarantee you wouldn't be able to swallow it.

An extra 20 IBUs in an Oktoberfest is a bunch, but it should mellow by the time it is conditioned.

In the future, if you want more hop flavor/aroma only do adds in the last 10 minutes. 60 minute adds do very little for hop flaver/aroma.

david_42 said:

The highest a wort can go is about 100 IBUs and since you diluted the boiled wort by 4:1 or so, the most you would have boosted the IBUs is about 20. 500 IBUs can be done using concentrates, but I can guarantee you wouldn't be able to swallow it.

An extra 20 IBUs in an Oktoberfest is a bunch, but it should mellow by the time it is conditioned.

In the future, if you want more hop flavor/aroma only do adds in the last 10 minutes. 60 minute adds do very little for hop flaver/aroma.

Click to expand...

thanks for the quick reply.

the 20 IBU increase is pretty much exactly what we were going for, but our wort was much more bitter than that.

maybe it was because some of the yeast got stirred up of the bottom into our sample?

also, is it common for an infection to cause intense bitterness and pink grapefruit flavor?

I'm confused: you say that you bought a kit that came with a "bag of wort"? And you only boiled "a portion" of the wort?

I've never seen a kit that came with wort; wort is a liquid, so packaging and selling a five gallon batch of wort would be tough. Maybe you got something I've never seen though. . .

Regardless, the boil is useful for more than just "adding hops." It also kills any bacteria in the wort; even if you somehow were using a kit that came with sterile, pre-boiled wort, the process of storing and transferring the wort would introduce microorganisms. My bet is that, if you really tried to ferment unboiled wort, you ended up with an infection.

Has anyone else heard of this?

pericles said:

I'm confused: you say that you bought a kit that came with a "bag of wort"? And you only boiled "a portion" of the wort?

I've never seen a kit that came with wort; wort is a liquid, so packaging and selling a five gallon batch of wort would be tough. Maybe you got something I've never seen though. . .

Regardless, the boil is useful for more than just "adding hops." It also kills any bacteria in the wort; even if you somehow were using a kit that came with sterile, pre-boiled wort, the process of storing and transferring the wort would introduce microorganisms. My bet is that, if you really tried to ferment unboiled wort, you ended up with an infection.

Has anyone else heard of this?

Click to expand...

more than likley it was just a vaccume sealed bag of LME

But you haven't bottled it yet... you have nothing to lose by giving it time to condition.

You "tinkered on the fly." You don't even know how many IBUs you added. Why change the recipe? If you knew that the kit was going to make a beer that you didn't want, why did you buy it? My advice (for next time) is to buy a kit that you want to try, and follow the directions exactly. Once you start screwing around with a recipe, you're on your own and you fate is in the hands of the beer gods.

After you've done a few recipes, and understand the process, you can design your own recipes. But have it all planned out - no changing horses in mid-stream!

I say this as a veteran mid-stream horse changer, so I know what I'm talking about.

pericles said:

I'm confused: you say that you bought a kit that came with a "bag of wort"? And you only boiled "a portion" of the wort?

I've never seen a kit that came with wort; wort is a liquid, so packaging and selling a five gallon batch of wort would be tough. Maybe you got something I've never seen though. . .

Click to expand...

yeah it's from Canada. here's the link

http://www.thebrewhouse.com/what_is/index.htm

we probably shouldn't have changed the recipe on our first batch of beer, but we just couldn't resist.

hopefully when i give it time to condition the bitterness will mellow down.

Lagering already??? Ambitious. How are you cooling it?

Hoppy beers are typically ales.

I think Sierra Nevada tastes like grapefruit juice.

pericles said:

I'm confused: you say that you bought a kit that came with a "bag of wort"? And you only boiled "a portion" of the wort?

I've never seen a kit that came with wort; wort is a liquid, so packaging and selling a five gallon batch of wort would be tough. Maybe you got something I've never seen though. . .

Regardless, the boil is useful for more than just "adding hops." It also kills any bacteria in the wort; even if you somehow were using a kit that came with sterile, pre-boiled wort, the process of storing and transferring the wort would introduce microorganisms. My bet is that, if you really tried to ferment unboiled wort, you ended up with an infection.

Has anyone else heard of this?

Click to expand...

Maybe he's talking about Festabrew? They make a 5 gallons wort you can buy. No need for sugar/water. You just put in fermenter and pitch the yeast and wait!
http://www.thebrewerswort.com/festa.htm
This is a Canadian product made by Magnotta, in BC.

... This doesn't seem any fun at all, but hey...

Erythro73 said:

Ever heard of FestaBrew? They make a 5 gallons wort you can buy. You just have to pitch the yeast and wait!
http://www.thebrewerswort.com/festa.htm

Click to expand...

My question is:

What is the point? It's beer Kool-Aid at that point.

I'm wondering if the warm fermentation cooked up a bunch of fusel alcohol & that's what he's tasting???

jbrookeiv said:

My question is:

What is the point? It's beer Kool-Aid at that point.

Click to expand...

I'm asking myself the same question, but a friend of mine did it. With fairly good results, I think.

I don't see the point, but let's just say it's easy, difficult to screw up.

Can't.... fight.... urge.....

Must..... resist...... aaaaaaahh.....

Fletch78 said:

Can't.... fight.... urge.....

Must..... resist...... aaaaaaahh.....

Click to expand...

Then I'll do it.

I have a new line of wort that is already fermented! You just bottle it. Or better yet.....

There is actually beer that you can buy at the store that is already bottled!

Will wonders never cease.

But, of course, you can't then decide to up the hop schedule....

cheezydemon3 said:

Then I'll do it.

I have a new line of wort that is already fermented! You just bottle it. Or better yet.....

There is actually beer that you can buy at the store that is already bottled!

Will wonders never cease.

But, of course, you can't then decide to up the hop schedule....

Click to expand...

Oh contrar... Couple of drops of liquid hops extract in the pint & there you go... There's no end in sight...........................................

The OP is using an all grain, pre-packaged wort called The Brew House, as he mentioned. I haven't had it but I have made Festa Brew which is another all grain pre-packed wort. Both only available in Canada, I believe. Festa Brew is 5 gallons of wort, I believe the Brew House needs some water added to it.

The point is that it's dead easy to make, and makes a good beer, at least the Festa Brew does. The cost of the wort kit varies depending on where you are but I pay about $35 here in Nova Scotia. It's a lot cheaper than going to the liquor store.

jbrookeiv said:

My question is:

What is the point? It's beer Kool-Aid at that point.

Click to expand...

The Brew House kits are quite hackable - they are 15L of concentrated sterile wort to which you add 8L of water, if you want to follow the instructions...

However, you can modify them however you want, and their website has a few recipes that give suggestions on how to do that (I have heard that their Russian Imperial Stout recipe is delicious). I currently have their Duvel-clone on the go, and should be ready to bottle before too long. I have made some of their other kits, as well, with great results. I have about 3 bottles of their Pilsner left, and it is very delicious made directly to kit instructions.

What's the point? Well, it does allow the newbie to learn some of the necessary skills of brewing (sanitation, racking, bottling) and working up to boiling specialty grains, adding hops, etc. It is quick and easy. Most importantly, they are much cheaper than buying a similar quality beer here in Canada. A 23L kit will yield roughly 60 bottles of beer, which would probably run about $100 here (for a decent, all-malt beer) vs. $40ish for a Brew House kit. I realize that in the USA the reality is that homebrewing does not save money, but in Canada it can, even when using the premium kits.

I'm getting ready to go all-grain, but until that point I'm pretty happy with the hacked (or un-hacked) BH kits.

lol, cheers all.

I was wondering how they offered 5 gallons of product. Shipping would be a nightmare. Sounds ridiculous, but I can see the appeal.

However.....at that point aren't heat, temp fluctuations a concern? or do the yeast clean all that up?

cheezydemon3 said:

However.....at that point aren't heat, temp fluctuations a concern? or do the yeast clean all that up?

Click to expand...

I don't think either Brew House or Magnotta (Festa Brew) ship to the consumer. We buy them from our local homebrew suppliers. If you mean temperature fluctuation of the wort during shipping to the distributor, I'm not sure if it's an issue. I've never heard of it being an issue.

We call these "kits" because that's what they are really but they're not the type of kits that people are generally used to, with a can of concentrated goo. It's a bag of wort and a package of yeast. Everything else in your brewing process from that stage remains the same, for the most part. They come with instructions but I've never used them.

One reason why your beer could be extra bitter is that any hops in the original wort are now being boiled for an extra hour. So, in addition to the 1/2 oz of Mt. Hood that you added you'll also get bitterness from any late addition hops in the original wort.

Fletch78 said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f45/must-see-homebrew-video-nsfw-195175/

Click to expand...

this video is hilarious, i hope you don't think that's what i'm like..

i love cascade and columbus hops, and "grapefruity" -ish beer, but i wasn't expecting my beer to taste like that. my wort tasted like Minute Maid pink grapefruit and like, a whole bottle of hop extract in one sip.
Anyways, i'm confident it will mellow out with time and taste like beer in a month or two

the Brew House kits are in fact very "hackable". check this out

http://www.yeastwranglers.ca/LinkClick.aspx?link=Attachments/BrewhouseTips.pdf&tabid=191&mid=569

i guess it's kind of like good soup...
good soup starts with a good stock or base. then you build flavors and ingredients around the base.

Brew House kits are like a really good soup stock. it gives you a great wort to start with, and you can play with the flavor and ingredients however you like.

the way i would describe the Brew House kits is it is a concentrated wort, that you have to add water and yeast, and thats it. It's all-grain, no sugar added. kinda like wort that is reduced down and concentrated, but not like the cans of liquid malt extract.

it comes with an 11 g bag of Coopers ale yeast, so we tossed that and got some Belgian Wyeast.

We aren't exactly brewing at lager temperatures, more like 66-68 F. but from what i understand, the worst that can happen from that is i'll get a steam beer....


i agree, Festa Brew sounds a little to easy. like kool-aid

also, what abrdnck is so true. here in Canada, home brewing really saves you some cash. i pay $14 for a six-pack of IPA from our only micro-brewery here in Winnipeg. i'm hoping that i can make the same stuff for under a dollar a beer.

hopefully if this works, we can get right on to some all-grain brewing. i know they say you shouldn't run before you can walk, but i love to cook and i think all-grain is just the way to go.

cheers everybody, and thanks for all the replies to my post

Tombstone0 said:

One reason why your beer could be extra bitter is that any hops in the original wort are now being boiled for an extra hour. So, in addition to the 1/2 oz of Mt. Hood that you added you'll also get bitterness from any late addition hops in the original wort.

Click to expand...

good point... i never thought about that.