My amber ale tastes horrible...?

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Newton

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I made an amber ale with the following recipe"

7 lb 2 row pale
2 lb Amber
1 lb Munich
.50 lb Biscuit
.25 lb Crystal 10L
.25 lb Crystal 40L
.25 lb Special Roast

Ok, my hop schedule is regrettable, but I had a 1.5 oz mixture of Nugget, Williamette, and Sterling from previous batches and there were mixed together so I just put .5 oz in at 60, 30, and 5. The yeast was a US dry ale variety from a reused from a previous batch.

The grain bill is identical to a fat tire clone recipe I think I found on this forum, the only difference is the hopping.

The brewing went nearly flawless; hit all my targets; OG 1.050.
I let it sit in the primary for 2 weeks, I measured the FG at 1.010 at 4 days. Its been in the bottle for 10 days.

I know its early, but I'm a noob and impatient, so I cracked one today just to see whats going on. The beer looks ok, has a nice head and retention, relatively clear. But it tastes horrible. It has this overwhelmingly strong roast malt taste to it. The taste is very similar to a strong nut brown ale I brewed, except this roasty, almost woody, taste is greatly amplied.

Will something like this mellow down significantly with time? Thanks!

Ben
 
Hey thanks for the pointers on the link. Like I said, I'm a noob, but my other brews have been atleast drinkeable at 10 days in the bottle. I spat this one out and poured the beer down the drain. Hopefully conditioning does it well.....
 
Taste everything! Malt, durring the boil, at primary and secondary. It does much for your own education. You will learn what the brew tastes like when it is not finished or even getting old. It will mostly tell you, over time what the end product will be like. But, give it a couple more weeks before you taste it believing that it is ready to drink!
 
I'm surprised you used 2 pounds of amber malt. A little goes a LONG way. In my DFH clone (OG of 1.070 or so), I use 6 ounces and I can taste it. I bet that's where the strong flavor is coming from. Are you certain that the original recipe had two pounds of amber malt? That's really a lot.
 
I'm surprised you used 2 pounds of amber malt. A little goes a LONG way. In my DFH clone (OG of 1.070 or so), I use 6 ounces and I can taste it. I bet that's where the strong flavor is coming from. Are you certain that the original recipe had two pounds of amber malt? That's really a lot.

Thats what stood out to me too--Everything else seems to be in good proportion. Heres Amber Malt's description from BeerSmith:

"Roasted specialty malt used in some English browns, milds and old ales to add color and a biscuit taste. Intense flavor - so limit use. Low diastatic power so must be mashed with well modified malts."
 
Here's the recipe from brewboard.com, they called it Flat Ass Tired:

Brew Type: All Grain
Style: American Amber Ale
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer: Beer Wench
Boil Volume: 6.5 gal Boil Time: 90 min


Ingredients
6.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3 SRM) Grain 58.5 %
2.00 lb Amber Malt (22 SRM) Grain 19.5 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9 SRM) Grain 9.8 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23 SRM) Grain 4.9 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10 SRM) Grain 2.4 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40 SRM) Grain 2.4 %
0.25 lb Special Roast (50 SRM) Grain 2.4 %
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.5%] (60 min) Hops 22.8 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.5%] (30 min) Hops 7.6 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.5%] (15 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [5.5%] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [Starter 1000 ml]

So you can see that the only thing I changed was the hop additions. These guys are raving on the forum about how great this beer is and don't change a thing, but I'm telling you that the roast aroma and flavor is so pungent and powerful that I can't even swallow a gulp of this stuff. And that is saying something, because I drink about anything. Do you think this will mellow dramatically with age?
 
My guess is yes this will mellow with age and probably the amber malt will come through more. I would just wait until about 5 weeks in the bottle to see where it is then.

After looking back at your recipe it seems that there is a lot of specialty grains in your grain bill. Is the flavor sweet?
 
My guess is yes this will mellow with age and probably the amber malt will come through more. I would just wait until about 5 weeks in the bottle to see where it is then.

After looking back at your recipe it seems that there is a lot of specialty grains in your grain bill. Is the flavor sweet?

It might be sweet but I can't really tell because it is currently dominated by one strong flavor. The FG was 1.010 so there some residual sugars in there. I'll let this stuff sit until mid summer or so and see how the flavor changes with time...I have a whole bunch of bottles now, so I don't need the bottles that the beer is in anyway....
 
Right on. You live and learn. Maybe cut the Special Roasted Barley in half next time.

I made an PM Imperial Stout and used a lb of Roasted Barley. It took it about 3 mos. in the bottle to mellow and at least not dominate the stout. But that stout was 8.5% abv and needed time to mellow. I would give it time and the dynamics of the beer may completely change and the recipe may hold true as being a good one.

To beer!!:mug:
 
My only thought is cut the amber, biscuit, and crystal way down. You have 6lbs of 2 row and 3 plus lbs of darker way too flavorful stuff with it. Some may like that flavor I don't. try 7.5lbs 2row, .5 lbs amber, .25lb biscuit, well keep the crystal. LOL drink it anyway! Good luck
 
I think it's the recipe. I can't believe ANYBODY would use two pounds of amber malt in a five gallon batch, except maybe for a dark roasted beer. The other specialty grains are fine.

Edit- I took a peek at that thread. They keep referring to the amber malt as "home toasted". I wonder if they meant to toast some malt, instead of using actual amber malt. Here's one example: "I think the key to the flavor lies in the amber malt (Belgian Pale home toasted at 350F for 25 mins)." and "Ok, well that's confusing me I guess. How is Belgian Pale (2-row) and Amber the same? Not to mention the 3 SRM Pale,vs the 22 SRM Amber. I put Belgian pale in the recipe (to give it a semblance, if you will) of an otherwise non Belgian beer because so many people actually think it is a Belgian beer. If you toast it as I mentioned then you will have Amber, albiet done with Dingeman's Belgian Pale 2-row. Hope that clears it up for you."
 
I think it's the recipe. I can't believe ANYBODY would use two pounds of amber malt in a five gallon batch, except maybe for a dark roasted beer. The other specialty grains are fine.

Edit- I took a peek at that thread. They keep referring to the amber malt as "home toasted". I wonder if they meant to toast some malt, instead of using actual amber malt. Here's one example: "I think the key to the flavor lies in the amber malt (Belgian Pale home toasted at 350F for 25 mins)." and "Ok, well that's confusing me I guess. How is Belgian Pale (2-row) and Amber the same? Not to mention the 3 SRM Pale,vs the 22 SRM Amber. I put Belgian pale in the recipe (to give it a semblance, if you will) of an otherwise non Belgian beer because so many people actually think it is a Belgian beer. If you toast it as I mentioned then you will have Amber, albiet done with Dingeman's Belgian Pale 2-row. Hope that clears it up for you."

Well this one goes down as a learning experience for me. I read somewhere that it originally took over 6 months of conditioning for the first porters to become drinkeable. So maybe this one will be better in several months, and if not, oh well....:tank:
 
Well this one goes down as a learning experience for me. I read somewhere that it originally took over 6 months of conditioning for the first porters to become drinkeable. So maybe this one will be better in several months, and if not, oh well....:tank:

Yes, it WILL mellow quite a bit with some age. Maybe next time, try posting a recipe here in a thread, and we can take a look. Sometimes something "weird" like that will show up right away for some of us.

I have some experience with amber malt, and home toasted malt is NOT a substitute! Home toasted malt is wonderful in many recipes, though, and I can see how they could have used 2 pounds of it in that beer.
 
Amber and biscuit (and victory) are all basically the same thing anyway, just made from english, belgian, and US grain respectively.

Special Roast is a darker version of the same thing. Basically somewhere between amber and brown malt.
 
I'm surprised you used 2 pounds of amber malt. A little goes a LONG way. In my DFH clone (OG of 1.070 or so), I use 6 ounces and I can taste it. I bet that's where the strong flavor is coming from. Are you certain that the original recipe had two pounds of amber malt? That's really a lot.

+1 on the Amber......thats a considerable amount. 4-6 oz. is plenty.
 
All roasty flavors mellow. I used 8 oz of peat smoked in a barleywine, it took a year to mellow, but it did.
 
You've got a lot of flavors going on in that recipe. More malt = more time to condition. It hasn't even been a month yet...patience.
 
I think it's the recipe. I can't believe ANYBODY would use two pounds of amber malt in a five gallon batch, except maybe for a dark roasted beer. The other specialty grains are fine.

Edit- I took a peek at that thread. They keep referring to the amber malt as "home toasted". I wonder if they meant to toast some malt, instead of using actual amber malt. Here's one example: "I think the key to the flavor lies in the amber malt (Belgian Pale home toasted at 350F for 25 mins)." and "Ok, well that's confusing me I guess. How is Belgian Pale (2-row) and Amber the same? Not to mention the 3 SRM Pale,vs the 22 SRM Amber. I put Belgian pale in the recipe (to give it a semblance, if you will) of an otherwise non Belgian beer because so many people actually think it is a Belgian beer. If you toast it as I mentioned then you will have Amber, albiet done with Dingeman's Belgian Pale 2-row. Hope that clears it up for you."


Thats what I gathered and did when I made mine. Put 2 pounds of 2 row on a cookie sheet at 350 for about 15-20 minutes (depending on how much you open the oven to check on it).
 
Thats what I gathered and did when I made mine. Put 2 pounds of 2 row on a cookie sheet at 350 for about 15-20 minutes (depending on how much you open the oven to check on it).

After you did it, did you use the malt that day? It's recommended to let the roasted malt rest for a week. I use brown paper bags to store it. The malt will lose some of it's bitter/roastiness and be more mellow when you wait.
 
Yes, it WILL mellow quite a bit with some age. Maybe next time, try posting a recipe here in a thread, and we can take a look. Sometimes something "weird" like that will show up right away for some of us.

I have some experience with amber malt, and home toasted malt is NOT a substitute! Home toasted malt is wonderful in many recipes, though, and I can see how they could have used 2 pounds of it in that beer.

Yeah Yooper that what I'm going to do from now on. I come across a recipe like that I'm going to post it on here for discussion and tips before I brew it...
 
I made this recipe at the beginning of the year. I used the malt right out of the oven. I waited 5 weeks before drinking it. I did 2 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary. I used gelatin to clarify it. First time to try that. I kegged and carbed it. It tastes fine and it's clear.
 
38% specialty malt is a lot of malt for an amber. My guess is a quarter pound of special roast and 2 pounds of amber were the "woody" culprits.

I would probably have stuck with just the Willamette hops. Nugget is a powerful strong hop and can tend to dominate everything else.

A good example of an Amber grist:

9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
0.50 lbs. Victory Malt America 1.034 25
1.00 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
1.00 lbs. Munich Malt(light) America 1.033 10
0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt - Light Great Britain 1.034 200

Notice the darker malts are used to "tweak" the color and flavor...not dominate the grain mix. :mug:
 
After you did it, did you use the malt that day? It's recommended to let the roasted malt rest for a week. I use brown paper bags to store it. The malt will lose some of it's bitter/roastiness and be more mellow when you wait.

Sure didn't Rev. I used it that day. Thanks for the heads up. Next time I do my Fat Tire I will prepare in advance with a rest.
 
Sure didn't Rev. I used it that day. Thanks for the heads up. Next time I do my Fat Tire I will prepare in advance with a rest.

I came upon that tip in Radical Brewing. I found that brown sandwhich bags can actually hold several pounds of home roasted grain, while you are "conditioning" them.
 
38% specialty malt is a lot of malt for an amber. My guess is a quarter pound of special roast and 2 pounds of amber were the "woody" culprits.

I would probably have stuck with just the Willamette hops. Nugget is a powerful strong hop and can tend to dominate everything else.

A good example of an Amber grist:

9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
0.50 lbs. Victory Malt America 1.034 25
1.00 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
1.00 lbs. Munich Malt(light) America 1.033 10
0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt - Light Great Britain 1.034 200

Notice the darker malts are used to "tweak" the color and flavor...not dominate the grain mix. :mug:

I love pale chocolate in an amber (and everywhere else, I tend to use equal amounts of pale and regular chocolate in darker beers).

Getting me to use pale chocolate is the greatest thing Jamil Z ever did for me.
 
OP, let that beer sit someplace cool for a few weeks.

I don't ever touch my Amber Ale for at least 2 weeks from the day of kegging.

It simply takes a little while for the tastes to smooth out an combine. Oh, it's drinkable after a week in the keg, but it is SOOOOO much better a few weeks later.

Brew Duck thinks it is even better after 6 weeks in the keg:

IMAG00071.JPG
 
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