Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Automated Rig

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hello JonW,

I just had a quick question about your rig. I am designing my build after yours and I noticed that you only have mechanical valves connected to the pumps but not the kettles. Was wondering why you made this choice and how it has been working for you.

Thank you very much for your time,

ElNess
 
I just had a quick question about your rig. I am designing my build after yours and I noticed that you only have mechanical valves connected to the pumps but not the kettles. Was wondering why you made this choice and how it has been working for you.

The electric valves on the pumps are either on or off - there is no throttling in between. That is the reason for the manual return valves at the top of the kettles. The position there serves two purposes: one is to be able to throttle the liquid during fly sparging to get the runoff rate I want. Two is by being located at the top, I can throttle the flow while also looking at the flow at the same time (instead of bending over to adjust a valve, look in kettle, bend over again, etc.).

As for the manual valves on the kettle output, those are always on when a hose is connected, so there is no reason to have automated valves to turn them on and off.
 
Two is by being located at the top, I can throttle the flow while also looking at the flow at the same time (instead of bending over to adjust a valve, look in kettle, bend over again, etc.).

You'd think this would be a small thing, but I think about installing a valve at the top of my kettles on the return port for just this reason every time I brew.. *ow, my back*
 
You'd think this would be a small thing, but I think about installing a valve at the top of my kettles on the return port for just this reason every time I brew.. *ow, my back*

LOL, yeah it helps on the back, but for me it was more about the eye-hand coordination. When I look at the flow at the same time I adjust it, I hit the right flow pretty much spot-on the first time. On my old rig where I was bending over, then looking in the kettle, it would sometimes take 2 or 3 adjustments to get the flow rate I wanted.
 
I am trying to make a system that is as automated as possible. With this in mind would I benefit from installing motorized valves at the bottom of the kettles?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I am trying to make a system that is as automated as possible. With this in mind would I benefit from installing motorized valves at the bottom of the kettles?

I see no benefit to it and several reasons not to.

- Additional cost of valves and relays.
- You don't open/close those valves during brewing.
- You would need to have some sort of wiring disconnect on them for when you remove your kettles for cleaning.
- You would need to ensure you don't get the valves too wet while cleaning. They can take splashes, but they're not meant to get completely wet.
 
Jon do you have a picture of your recent improvements to your brew rig? I'm getting geared up to build mine and may copy some of your ideas.Thanks in advance
 
Jon do you have a picture of your recent improvements to your brew rig? I'm getting geared up to build mine and may copy some of your ideas.Thanks in advance

No, I haven't taken any recently. The first pic in the thread was updated when I moved the gas rail/valves to the front of the rig. It pretty much looks like that except that the secondary gas valves with the flex tubing for the pilot light has been removed due to the addition of the glow igniters. I've also since moved my BCS to being under the stand, but that's not anything you'd see in pics anyways.
 
How did you secure the BCS to the enclosure frame? I thought about using a strap of thin gauge tin that I could bend to make a strap that could be screwed into the enclosure panel but wanted to see if there is a better approach.
 
I'm sure this is answered somewhere else. But I am building my own single tier and had originally thought to mount the two chugger pumps i'm using on the inside of the outer support legs. Unfortunately that doesn't leave me the space I wanted to store my Mash tun etc underneath. I'm considering mounting them in between the mash tun and HLT/Boil kettle on the underside of the top shelf. My concern is that will put them close to the burners. Has anyone had problems with the heat transferring to the pumps and causing them to fail?
 
I'm sure this is answered somewhere else. But I am building my own single tier and had originally thought to mount the two chugger pumps i'm using on the inside of the outer support legs. Unfortunately that doesn't leave me the space I wanted to store my Mash tun etc underneath. I'm considering mounting them in between the mash tun and HLT/Boil kettle on the underside of the top shelf. My concern is that will put them close to the burners. Has anyone had problems with the heat transferring to the pumps and causing them to fail?

DON'T DO IT! You will kill your pumps in short order. You must protect them from heat wash coming from the burners. Even if I had put mine on the top side of my lower shelf, I would have needed to add heat shields to them. The lower shelf serves that purpose (among other purposes).

Additionally, you will not have enough drop from the kettle to the pumps to help purge air from them while priming.
 
Did you wire any safety mechanisms into your build? Looking to starting making a schematic for my own and it's getting a little confusing with all the diagrams out there.
 
Did you wire any safety mechanisms into your build? Looking to starting making a schematic for my own and it's getting a little confusing with all the diagrams out there.

No, there are no direct safeties - not really needed. However, I have a gas shutoff on the wall away from the rig as well as a breaker to kill the circuit if needed. I don't do unattended brewing, so I'm there for any issues that may happen.
 
JonW,

This is a sweet build, can you provide more detail on how you wired and controlled the motorized valves? I am looking at doing an automated single tier E-HERMS solution and not sure if I want to try to put everything into a single control box or use multiple boxes. How many did you end up using and what are they for? Where in your pictures is the BCS?

Thanks for your time,

-t
 
JonW,

This is a sweet build, can you provide more detail on how you wired and controlled the motorized valves? I am looking at doing an automated single tier E-HERMS solution and not sure if I want to try to put everything into a single control box or use multiple boxes. How many did you end up using and what are they for? Where in your pictures is the BCS?

Thanks for your time,

-t

The BCS outputs are wired to an 8 channel relay board (12V relays with 5V trigger input from the BCS). The valves are then wired to the relay board using both the N/O and N/C contacts since the valves must be powered to open or close. The N/C contacts are used to close the valve, so the default is closed. When the BCS energizes a relay, it opens the valve.

You can see the underside of my stand in the first pic. My relay board is in the grey plastic box. That pic doesn't show the BCS because I used to have it mounted in a panel on the wall and connected to the rig via CAT5 data jacks, but I have since moved the BCS to the underside of the rig. It is not enclosed.
 
Jon, would it be possible to get a close up picture of the ignitor setup you are using? I am having issues visualizing how to make a mount for the the gloflys. Which burner jets did you choose to be the 'primary' ignitors (I think I am using the same type jet burners you are but with 23 tips, I know some people have had issues with getting them all to light at once). Did you use any of the hardware that came with them, or did you make something up yourself from scratch. What type of metal (presumably) did you make the mount out of?
 
Jon, would it be possible to get a close up picture of the ignitor setup you are using? I am having issues visualizing how to make a mount for the the gloflys. Which burner jets did you choose to be the 'primary' ignitors (I think I am using the same type jet burners you are but with 23 tips, I know some people have had issues with getting them all to light at once). Did you use any of the hardware that came with them, or did you make something up yourself from scratch. What type of metal (presumably) did you make the mount out of?

The glowflys come with some additional sheet metal mounting brackets. I used one of those and some tin snips to make a mounting plate. The threaded screw in the picture (on right) is the one that comes with the glowflys for mounting them to the extra brackets. The screw on the left is just a self tapping sheet metal screw that I used coming up from the bottom of my original NG pilot mount. I've seen burners that don't have the extra pilot mount like mine and I've seen them with the pilot mount, but not drilled out. Hopefully you have a tab like that present where you can mount to it.

Burner_Igniter.JPG
 
Very helpful! That helps with two other questions I had about the glowfly's: are they directly in the flame's path and if so angle of attack. I know these burners can put out serious BTU's and had doubts if the ceramic could take the heat. Judging from the picture they are not in the flame's path and AoA looks to be arbitrary. Is that correct? Do you have any issues with the initial ignition being a large poof of accumulated gas, or is it pretty quick?

The burners I have actually have both the empty socket for the pilot light and another ledge with pre-drilled holes. This is part of what was tripping me up was trying to figure out where to mount them. I think with what you have shown I have a better idea of at least how to get started.

If you're interested/curious/bored here are my burners:

jk6z8pH.jpg

wZ5LMfJ.jpg
 
Judging from the picture they are not in the flame's path and AoA looks to be arbitrary. Is that correct? Do you have any issues with the initial ignition being a large poof of accumulated gas, or is it pretty quick?
Correct, the igniter is not directly in the flame path. It sits off to the side a bit. The burners ignite pretty quickly and don't give a big poof when coming on. I've never had any issues with all tips not igniting.
 
Way to go. Looks like my rig will be the pilot for our new brewery.
 
Question! Do you do anything special to prime your pumps? Or rather have you had any problems with prime / cavitation?
 
I will usually leave the top connection inside the kettles disconnected (like the grain bed hose) when I start the pump. Additionally, my valves are programmed to open 5 seconds prior to the pump starting which allows the liquid to flood the head. Usually works pretty good that way.
 
Jon,

Sorry if it's already been asked, but I didn't see it when I went through the thread.

Where do you have your temp probes located in your latest configuration?

Are they still in the T-s off of the pump? I couldn't quite make it out on the top picture.

Thanks
 
Where do you have your temp probes located in your latest configuration?

Are they still in the T-s off of the pump? I couldn't quite make it out on the top picture.
Yes, they are in the T's below the pumps, which means that they only measure temps while recirculating. Because both my MLT and HLT do continuous recirculation, this isn't an issue for me.
 
Cheers Jon! I thought that's where they were based on the other pictures.

My design leans pretty heavily on yours for the plumbing side of things and I also have 3 pumps and will be doing continuous recirculation. Main difference is mines electric with a herms coil in the HLT.

Finally able to get working on it now SWMBO is happy the kitchen is finished!
 
Sounds cool RazorUK! Building is actually half the fun. I'm working on gathering parts for a new build right now. Brewers Hardware is finishing up on a stainless frame and kettles for me right now and then I'll get to start plumbing and wiring. I'm staying with my original 3 pump design, but will be adding a few tweaks for new features like auto-filling the kettles and a low-high mash burner configuration.
 
JonW, I am connecting my BCS-462 everything gets wired as an output correct? Except for Temp? Next dropped the laptop and need a replacement what do you suggest? I've set the BCS-462 on its own router. I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask.
 
JonW, I am connecting my BCS-462 everything gets wired as an output correct? Except for Temp? Next dropped the laptop and need a replacement what do you suggest? I've set the BCS-462 on its own router. I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask.

Any pumps, valves, etc that you are controlling need to be wired to a relay for their power and that relay needs to be wired to the BCS outputs.

Best place to ask specific questions regarding wiring and setting up your BCS is at the ECC forum.
 
Brewers Hardware is finishing up on a stainless frame and kettles for me right now and then I'll get to start plumbing and wiring. I'm staying with my original 3 pump design, but will be adding a few tweaks for new features like auto-filling the kettles and a low-high mash burner configuration.

Auto-filling kettles?! Sounds like I mod I need to add to my JonW clone. :)
 
Back
Top