Single Tier vs. Two Tier Build

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swatman260

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Hey everyone, I'm looking for a bit of advice. I'm in the planning stages of building a RIMS system and I'm debating the merits of a single tier vs. a two tier system. My issue is that I can only afford a single pump at this point. I was originally planning a two tier build, with the pump being used to move water from the HLT to the Mash tun, then being used to recirculate the mash. Gravity would then be used to move the wort from the MT to the BK. After the boil, gravity would again be used to move the wort into a carboy on the ground. Chilling will be done via an IC.
My problem is that with the height of a carboy, and the height of my keggles, the MT (igloo cooler) winds up being pretty high. I'd much rather place everything on a single level, but can't really come up with a way to move all the liquids with a single pump. Can anyone offer any help or suggestions?
 
When moving wort to the carboy, you have a pump sitting around and doing nothing right? Pump it.

If you don't care about fly sparging, build a single tier and batch sparge using one pump. If you want to play with fly sparging, build a two tier with the BK really low and the HLT/MLT up just high enough to gravity drain to the kettle. That should put their tops at about chest height.
 
To add to what bobby says:
Unless you are planning on fly sparging where you need water from the HLT running into the MLT at the same time your are draining the MLT into the Kettle you should be able to get away with a single pump.

If you plan on fly sparging there are two options: either elevate the HLT and run your hot liquor onto your grainbed with gravity, or do as Bobby suggested and elevate the MLT and drain wort into your kettle with gravity. The only caveat I would add with elevating the MLT is that of all the vessels I need to stick my face in and stir and check and poke around a bit, the MLT and the kettle are the ones I need at a lower level so I can see inside them. YMMV, that's just my opinion.

There are several systems on this list that use quick disconnects and silicone tubing to switch inputs and outputs. From my perspective, this is a much more effective way to build a system. My PAWS (Portable Automated Wort System) looks pretty with all the hard-line copper and sliver solder against a stained wood frame, but I would never do that again. It's much too restrictive and if something breaks or leaks during a brew session (knock wood that it hasn't), I do not think I could recover quickly or easily.
 
Thanks for the input. I would like to continue fly sparging, as that is what I've been doing with my old system, but I guess changes could be made. I guess with one pump, my choices are pretty limited.
 
I don't think I was clear enough. Build yourself a clone of the brewmagic but cut down on the leg height. The boil kettle only needs to be high enough to get a burner under it. That leaves the MLT and HLT at chest height and just find stir the mash.
 
You can put your MLT low with the pump plumbed into it, and HLT and BK high. You can then gravity feed HLT to MLT, recirc the MLT without changing the inlet side of the pump, and then pump up to your BK. Because your boil kettle is high, you can gravity feed into whatever you want. Easy as can be.

I have this setup on a 2 tank system and love it. Easiest brew days I have ever had. I have a second pump for my BK, but would not need it, it is just nice. Look at the second post of the link in my signature.
 
jfkriege, I do like this idea, and I hadn't thought of it before. Having not yet used my March pump, how much below the MLT would it need to be in order to achieve a good prime? This may be the solution that I'm looking for here.
 
Everyone puts the BK low, and I think it has just become the way of thinking. It is probably so things flow linearly down the three tank rig. I really like MLT low, though. It also means that you can bottom drain your HLT and MLT, which makes cleanup a snap and reduces deadloss in the MLT.

I dont use march pumps, so I am not sure about that specifically. I use the 3-MD-HC pumps and as long as I have water above the level of the top of the pump, it primes without me doing a thing. So, I have the top of the pump about level with the bottom of the MLT.
 
I have a single tier system and I do a sort of hybrid fly-sparge with one pump. I have my control system alternate between adding spargewater and draining the MLT. It drains around 0.5 gals then adds sparge water, then drains again, then adds sparge water again, etc. The single pump alternates between spargewater delivery and draining the wort to the boil kettle via controlled solenoid valves. Works great, and if I want I can still use the batch sparge method by changing the control sequence. It's so much nicer having all vessels at a comfortable height where you can see inside without needing a stepstool.
 
I'm really liking the suggestion by jfkriege. In my mind, this will do exactly what I want with the equipment that I have. I guess now, I have to see if there's a difference between theory and reality. lol. I think my biggest concern with this setup will be getting the gravity flow rate from the HLT to the MT, and the pump flow from the MT back to the HLT equal during the RIMS process.
Anybody out there with more suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
 
I am in the process of designing a new brew stand as well and have decided to go 2 tier with one pump. HLT raised up and then the MLT and BK on the same level. I would gravity feed from the HLT to the MLT then pump from the MLT to the BK during fly sparging. The MLT and BK will be high enough to gravity feed through the plate chiller and into a carboy. I haven't worked out the math yet but I think I should be able to stir and see in both MLT and BK with out any problems.

Any other thoughts on this plan?
 
I think that that is pretty much what I have decided on, except I'm placing both the HLT and the BK on the same level, with the MT on a lower level, just above the pump. I'll still gravity feed from the HLT to the MT, and pump from the MT to the BK. By doing this, I have both burners on the same level, and my igloo MT below flame level. It should put my highest point at about 44" off the ground, which is plenty low to see in to and to stir the BK. I like the idea of both burners side by side on one level, and the fact that the whole thing should be fairly low and stable.
 
That sounds like a good plan. In addition, if you ever decide to use a RIMS system on the MT, you already have the pump in place and just have to switch up the outlet.
 
how are you all pumping out of the MLT? i thought that was a bad idea due to compression of teh grain bed which can led to channeling or a stuck sparge.

Ive always been under teh assumption you should use a grant if you want to pump from the MLT. If you have a grant, then your height of the MLT is raised again.
 
I am planning a RIMS system with mine, which is what started the whole brewery build in the first place. lol. One project always leads to another.
I'm sure that others with actual experience using these RIMS units and pumps can comment better than I on the flow through the grain bed, but as I understand it, as long as the flow is moderated, the sparge will not become stuck. I'm returning the water to the MT from the pump via the same manifold that I use for fly sparging, and my bed has not compressed or become stuck during the sparging process yet.
 
how are you all pumping out of the MLT? i thought that was a bad idea due to compression of teh grain bed which can led to channeling or a stuck sparge.

Ive always been under teh assumption you should use a grant if you want to pump from the MLT. If you have a grant, then your height of the MLT is raised again.

I plan on direct firing my MLT (keggle) and recirculating at the same time. I like the idea of using a grant thats why I was planning on having the MLT and BK at the same height. The grant will probably happen later though.
 
I found this design on another forum and think its really interesting. I was thinking about building it out of 1.5 X 1.5 steel instead of the angle iron.
What do you guys think? swatman, sorry if I hijacked your thread.
DSC_0106.jpg
 
It is easier to stick a mash if you have the pump, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it. If you are flowing at the same rate, it does not matter whether you are drawing it out with a pump or gravity.

Just be careful not to open the pump wide and compact everything and you are fine. I have never stuck the mash and I pump out of the MLT on both of my systems. It really is not a big concern.
 
I guess that I'll find out soon enough. I do recognize that I'm gonna have to be careful with the flow rate, but this seems to be the most practical way for me to use one pump for the entire system, without having at least one component higher than I would like. Hopefully, I'll soon be able to put in a second pump, and move everything to one level.
 
I guess that I'll find out soon enough. I do recognize that I'm gonna have to be careful with the flow rate, but this seems to be the most practical way for me to use one pump for the entire system, without having at least one component higher than I would like. Hopefully, I'll soon be able to put in a second pump, and move everything to one level.

I brew on a single tier and pump from the MLT to the BK. The rig is about five years old and no compacting or stuck sparges yet. Good luck with your knew rig.
 
I think that that is pretty much what I have decided on, except I'm placing both the HLT and the BK on the same level, with the MT on a lower level, just above the pump. I'll still gravity feed from the HLT to the MT, and pump from the MT to the BK. By doing this, I have both burners on the same level, and my igloo MT below flame level. It should put my highest point at about 44" off the ground, which is plenty low to see in to and to stir the BK. I like the idea of both burners side by side on one level, and the fact that the whole thing should be fairly low and stable.

do you have any pics of your setup? i'm thinking about the same layout of my design but haven't really seen any examples like it yet, though i haven't yet decided on which to go up top and which to go below
 
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