Keezer access issues. Need some creative ideas

So I'm working on having my keezer in the basement crawl space (about 4-4.5' high) and the lines running up into my dining room liquor cabinet. As I plan this out and start buying supplies, I'm realizing that with a collar on the keezer, I won't be able to open the lid much at all. It's going to be tight as it is just getting the cornies in there.

Does anybody have any ideas on how I can make accessing the inside of the keezer easier?

The current plan is to just leave the hinges off and make sure that when I put the lid back on that it lines up on the collar correctly.

Also, I wish I could say that I had a big budget for this, but the reality of it is that any solution will involve a lot of cheap DIY rigging...

Thanks in advance for any insight you might have!

Well, it sounds like you already know what you want. I would leave the hinges off and install some tight-fitting latches on the sides...That way, when you center it, you have more to fall back on besides gravity...Sounds like a cool setup...LET'S SEE SOME PICS!!!!!

Use a small dorm type fridge instead of a chest freezer. Then you can just swing the door open. If you need extra space you can go to 2 of them or build a collar on it.

- Make a trap door in the floor just above it, large enough that you can easily open the lid?

- Mount the lid using some drawer slides so it will slide away instead of lift?

...

I would think dorm fridge too..

Dorm fridge is out (money issue)
Trap door/digging is out (flooding issue)
I like the drawer slide idea, might look into that
I'll definitely use the latch idea to secure it down, I've got a ton of velcro sitting around here

I'll definitely post pictures once I get this underway. I have limited time over the next few weeks and some major projects to finish up before I can tackle this one so I wouldn't expect them until at least the middle of April...

Thanks for all of the replies so far!

drat said:

I like the drawer slide idea, might look into that

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"Van door" type sliders would probably be good, up then back style of sliding. Hopefully you can understand what I saying. Don't know if you could buy something of the shelf or you would have to fabricate something.

Do you need the collar to get the cornies to fit? I assume so, but sometimes people only have collars if they're putting cornies on the hump, or for the tap. If you don't actually need the collar, the 6 inches could save the day.

You could try disconnects on the outside of the keezer with some small casters and slide it out when you want to change and back in for use

Maybe not practical in your situation, but how would a trap door above the keezer be susceptible to flooding?

masonsjax said:

Maybe not practical in your situation, but how would a trap door above the keezer be susceptible to flooding?

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OH, I was thinking it was referring to digging down and putting the keezer in a hole. My bad.

A trap door is interesting, but the space limitations on the main floor make it really difficult to pull off. Plus, I don't think the SWMBO of the house would be game for me cutting a hole through the floor...

And yes, I'm using a collar so I don't have to drill the lid for the lines to come out. Only using a 4" collar though, but it still makes for a tight fit down there.

The van-type sliders would be awesome, but I don't have the set-up to fabricate something like that. I might see if I could pick some up from a junk yard though...

And I'm not envisioning the disconnects/casters suggestion...

OH yeah, I'm also open for suggestions on a bar surface.

I'd love to do granite or some other stone, but the cost is too prohibitive right now. My current plan is either doing a build-your-own wood and lacquer or finding a cheap/free antique desk and using the top. It's only going to be 17" deep (by 44" wide)...

My thought is that you're going want to chill the lines anyway. So why not have the lines come out through a hole in the top, which is insulated possibly with a "tube" or something. Otherwise, if the lines come out of the collar, and then upstairs, how will you keep them cool?

Maybe I'm just not envisioning what you're planning, but I can't quite figure out why you need a collar, or how the lines will run.

YooperBrew said:

My thought is that you're going want to chill the lines anyway. So why not have the lines come out through a hole in the top, which is insulated possibly with a "tube" or something. Otherwise, if the lines come out of the collar, and then upstairs, how will you keep them cool?

Maybe I'm just not envisioning what you're planning, but I can't quite figure out why you need a collar, or how the lines will run.

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I'm going to be running a water/glycol mix through a pond pump. The rise is about 8 feet from keg top to tap top. I don't have a separate freezer for a full glycol system so a 3-gallon bucket in the keezer will house the pump and liquid.

I don't want to put any holes in the keezer (it was given to me by the inlaws and I'm not sure if they will decide to ask for it back). Even without a collar, the lid doesn't open all the way in the crawl space. I'm able to get kegs in and out with the lid off though...

The keezer will be right next to the boiler exhaust chimney and the lines will run out the back of the collar and up through an existing hole next to the chimney. (the chimney is smack dab in the middle of the house, which is why there is a 17x44 cabinet next to it that I'm converting into a small bar)

I guess a description would help:

There is a wall between the livingroom and the diningroom. The open doorway between the two is off center because of the chimney, which is hidden inside the wall. The wall on the other side of the chimney (from the door) is about 22 inches deep (the width of the chimney and a support wall) and runs about 55 inches to a closet and then the other outer wall. In that 22 inch wide wall, there is currently a cabinet that was used for a small tv by the previous owners. I'm basically going to tear that cabinet out all the way to the closet, leaving the livingroom side supporting wall and build a 17inch deep bar area with upper and lower cabinets and my 6 taps on the bar surface Here's a link to a PDF of my initial design: https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6Muo90ohp2sOWEwZDkyMTAtNjAwZS00N2RlLTg3MzctMTE3ODlkMzRkZjRk&hl=en

You could cut the lid in half widthwise, then use heavy duty pantry shelf sliders, (they have them at all hardware stores...it's for those fancy pantrys where the shelf actually slides out for easy access). Having the lid cut in half means you can slide either half independently, you don't need to have 5' of clearance on one side of the freezer for the whole lid to slide out of the way, and you don't need super heavy duty sliders, since they won't be supporting/cantilevering as much weight.

shortyjacobs said:

You could cut the lid in half widthwise, then use heavy duty pantry shelf sliders, (they have them at all hardware stores...it's for those fancy pantrys where the shelf actually slides out for easy access). Having the lid cut in half means you can slide either half independently, you don't need to have 5' of clearance on one side of the freezer for the whole lid to slide out of the way, and you don't need super heavy duty sliders, since they won't be supporting/cantilevering as much weight.

Click to expand...

Although drat did say he didn't want to put holes in the freezer so cutting the lid in half might not be a goer either, unless you want to give them back an new and improved freezer! or get you father in law into homebrewing and then he will be stoked if the freezer comes back already setup for kegging!

mattd2 said:

Although drat did say he didn't want to put holes in the freezer so cutting the lid in half might not be a goer either, unless you want to give them back an new and improved freezer! or get you father in law into homebrewing and then he will be stoked if the freezer comes back already setup for kegging!

Click to expand...

The father-in-law makes wine. Decent wine. But he has no interest in brewing beer. I highly doubt they'll ask for it back, but I just wanted to avoid modifying the original freezer if I could help it.

I'm really liking the idea of using drawer slides. The lids really aren't that heavy. My biggest concern would be how to attach them so that when closed it would have a good seal.

I just had a thought (and yes, it hurt)...

I could build 3/4 of the collar to fasten to the freezer, and attach the fourth board to the lid. I could put some really heavy-duty door hinges on one side so the lid slides off the freezer and that 4th collar board opens like a door. This would allow for easier access into the keezer with the kegs. Some careful application of weather stripping would keep the gaps to a minimum. That would also allow for me to use much bigger boards for the collar eliminating any dead space from the humps...

Biggest concern would be the added weight of the board attached to the lid. Might be able to solve that with using metal supports and some high R value foam boards instead of wood...

How about removing the hinges altogether, and just take the lid off when you need to swap kegs. You could hold it in place with bungee cords hooked to eye bolts on both sides of the collar. Simple is often the best solution.

masonsjax said:

How about removing the hinges altogether, and just take the lid off when you need to swap kegs. You could hold it in place with bungee cords hooked to eye bolts on both sides of the collar. Simple is often the best solution.

Click to expand...

That's my current plan.

Although I am going to do some searching around at Lowes to see what I can find to make it a bit easier. I'm thinking L brackets and a really heavy duty hinge could be rigged to support the lid on a horizontal slide off.

The build starts in a week!

Very interesting dilemma, different than most, with creative solutions! Another thread mentions foam and spitting, and the OP uses a vertical rise of 7-9 feet - so that may be a concern for you too...

Hang Glider said:

Very interesting dilemma, different than most, with creative solutions! Another thread mentions foam and spitting, and the OP uses a vertical rise of 7-9 feet - so that may be a concern for you too...

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I've been following that thread closely. He has a bit more than just the rise and has only insulated, not cooled. I hope that between my 8' total distance in lines (about a 6 foot rise from my measurements last night) and a constant flow of keezer-temp liquid in an insulated bundle will keep this to a minimum.

I guess the worst case scenario would be that I have to convince my wife to let me rip out the coat closet and put the keezer in its place (which is about as likely as getting hit by lightning, eaten by a shark and winning the lottery all at the same time)...

It's in a crawl space right?
So it doesn't matter how it looks right?
Ditch the lid all together, and build a new one out of 2" pink foam board.
Make it bigger than the keezer, so it slides over it like a hat. Then, on the inside, about an inch up, add another ring of foam that would set on the freezer where the real lid used to. The "Z" overlap would seal pretty good on it's own, or apply weather strip to the new cover.


It would weigh about 5 pounds, no engineering/machining degree required, and C.H.E.A.P.:rockin:

SweetSounds said:

It's in a crawl space right?
So it doesn't matter how it looks right?
Ditch the lid all together, and build a new one out of 2" pink foam board.
Make it bigger than the keezer, so it slides over it like a hat. Then, on the inside, about an inch up, add another ring of foam that would set on the freezer where the real lid used to. The "Z" overlap would seal pretty good on it's own, or apply weather strip to the new cover.


It would weigh about 5 pounds, no engineering/machining degree required, and C.H.E.A.P.:rockin:

Click to expand...

Best idea yet

SweetSounds said:

It's in a crawl space right?
So it doesn't matter how it looks right?
Ditch the lid all together, and build a new one out of 2" pink foam board.
Make it bigger than the keezer, so it slides over it like a hat. Then, on the inside, about an inch up, add another ring of foam that would set on the freezer where the real lid used to. The "Z" overlap would seal pretty good on it's own, or apply weather strip to the new cover.


It would weigh about 5 pounds, no engineering/machining degree required, and C.H.E.A.P.:rockin:

Click to expand...

I was just going to suggest the same thing out of wood. I like your idea better. You could also drill a hole lengthwise in the scrap foam and use it to insulate lines.

Sounds like a winner to me too. You could just rest a weight on top to keep it down snug.

SweetSounds said:

It's in a crawl space right?
So it doesn't matter how it looks right?
Ditch the lid all together, and build a new one out of 2" pink foam board.
Make it bigger than the keezer, so it slides over it like a hat. Then, on the inside, about an inch up, add another ring of foam that would set on the freezer where the real lid used to. The "Z" overlap would seal pretty good on it's own, or apply weather strip to the new cover.


It would weigh about 5 pounds, no engineering/machining degree required, and C.H.E.A.P.:rockin:

Click to expand...

I have to read this a few more times to fully understand the "slides over it like a hat" and the "Z" overlap, but this is very intriguing!

Where would the lines run through it? I still need a few inches above the rim to allow for a corny on the hump...

Could you build the collar much higher, then use the one side of the collar as a door that you can slide the kegs in from there without ever even having to open or slide the lid?

Make a 2x4, or 2x6 collar, whatever you need for height. Then take the 2" foam and cut a rectangle big enough to cover the collar. Then cut another rectangle just small enough to fit inside the collar. Glue the 2 pieces of foam together and you have a lid that will drop into place and stay put. You can run lines through the back of the collar as originally planned.

Just to clarify, masonsjax' suggestion on left, sweetsounds' suggestion on right. Sweetsounds' "Z overlap" outlined in gold.



If I'm wrong, it's late, and I'm not sober.

That's it! Or it's close enough anyway!

shortyjacobs said:

Just to clarify, masonsjax' suggestion on left, sweetsounds' suggestion on right. Sweetsounds' "Z overlap" outlined in gold.

If I'm wrong, it's late, and I'm not sober.

Click to expand...

Oh awesome! Thanks so much everyone! I'm going to price the foam panels this weekend while chilling at the inlaws.

I was thinking the foam would lay flat actually, not vertical. I would whip it up in SketchUp, but I don't have it set up on this (linux) computer.

Basically, just make a wooden collar for your needed height, and to run the lines out, mount a manifold, whatever. Then cut a piece of foam to lay on top as a lid and cut another single piece of foam that would fit inside the collar to keep the lid in position and glue it flat to the underside of the lid piece. So the lid would be made of 2 sandwiched together rectangular pieces of foam, one a little smaller than the other. Make sense? It would be super easy to make.

masonsjax said:

I was thinking the foam would lay flat actually, not vertical. I would whip it up in SketchUp, but I don't have it set up on this (linux) computer.

Basically, just make a wooden collar for your needed height, and to run the lines out, mount a manifold, whatever. Then cut a piece of foam to lay on top as a lid and cut another single piece of foam that would fit inside the collar to keep the lid in position and glue it flat to the underside of the lid piece. So the lid would be made of 2 sandwiched together rectangular pieces of foam, one a little smaller than the other. Make sense? It would be super easy to make.

Click to expand...

That makes sense too. Probably a lot more sturdy and will last longer too. I still am worried about the access issues, so I might still go for a swing-type door hinge on the 4th collar board so I have full access...

Can't wait to start this build, but it's looking like it might be delayed an extra week. I'm repairing a sewer-line break just outside my house by myself and after a few hours of digging today, I'm just over 3 feet down and still don't see the pipe. Rain tomorrow and the next will put this fix off until next weekend at the earliest. I'm building the cabinet doors by hand so that's going to be the first phase of the DIY build...

masonsjax said:

I was thinking the foam would lay flat actually, not vertical. I would whip it up in SketchUp, but I don't have it set up on this (linux) computer.

Basically, just make a wooden collar for your needed height, and to run the lines out, mount a manifold, whatever. Then cut a piece of foam to lay on top as a lid and cut another single piece of foam that would fit inside the collar to keep the lid in position and glue it flat to the underside of the lid piece. So the lid would be made of 2 sandwiched together rectangular pieces of foam, one a little smaller than the other. Make sense? It would be super easy to make.

Click to expand...

Shoot...of course, you could totally eliminate the higher vertical foam piece from both my drawings and just have one vertical and one horizontal piece. Doh. I warned you I was drunk that night

What if you setup the keezer to lean over 45 degrees. It would only be out of the vertical position for a few minutes while you loaded kegs. All you would need is 2-3 extra feet of keg line outside the cooler to allow for tilting the entire freezer towards you. This would provide plenty of clearance for keg handling.

With a fully removable lid and a water/glycol bucket that won't spill during tilting you would be all set. You might not even need to tilt that far to get clearance.

Build the collar 3 sided. Leave the front or one side open to get kegs in and out.

Make the 4th collar side out of foam, and attached to the lid. pull the lid off the front and you've got room for the kegs to go in and out.

B

bad coffee said:

Build the collar 3 sided. Leave the front or one side open to get kegs in and out.

Make the 4th collar side out of foam, and attached to the lid. pull the lid off the front and you've got room for the kegs to go in and out.

B

Click to expand...

This is the simple version of what I'm likely to do. I might end up with the swinging door collar but will likely rethink that as I get anxious to get it all done.

Just a quick run-though of the projects I have planned for this build:

- keezer collar
- build cabinet doors
- demolish current cabinet space
- find/buy bar top
- build/buy pond pump line chiller
- insulate and run lines
- install cabinetry
- brew beer to fill the kegs

You're list is upside-down. If you have full kegs, you'll get the rest done much faster.