Thoughts on squeezing beer out of dry hops?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Schnitzengiggle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
2,560
Reaction score
42
Location
Tucson
I use paint strainer bags weighted with marbles when dry hopping with whole hops, and I was curious as to what your thoughts are on squeezing the beer out of the hops to regain some lost volume and possibly flavor?

I suppose oxidation could be an issue, but other more scientific or better explanations would be greatly appreciated, so...

Is it bad or wrong to do, if so why?

Is it acceptable, if so what is the reasoning behind it?

Thanks, cheers!
 
I don't think it's worth it. I think you would be oxidizing your batch. Just plan your volumes to assume loss due to dry hop. And +1 to pouring it into a glass to sample.
 
Don't squeeze it into a glass. It's unbelievably bitter, and awful in other ways. I see no problem squeezing it back into the beer. I think you probably introduce more oxygen by transferring, by stirring in your bottling sugar, or by letting your beer sit in an oxygen-permeable plastic pail for 2-4 weeks after fermentation has stopped.
 
Don't squeeze it into a glass. It's unbelievably bitter, and awful in other ways. I see no problem squeezing it back into the beer. I think you probably introduce more oxygen by transferring, by stirring in your bottling sugar, or by letting your beer sit in an oxygen-permeable plastic pail for 2-4 weeks after fermentation has stopped.

Okay I will say this, you have provided the best feedback thus far, but perceptible oxidation in a plastic fermenter within 2-4 weeks is a stretch.

I keg, so I definitely have the ability to purge a container and minimize splashing, thus oxidizing the beer.

My initial thoughts weren't so much the obvious such as oxidation. It was more along the lines of...will I extract some vegetal flavors/compounds from the hops...

Regardless, thanks for the vote of confidence, and thank you for your comments.

^^^ Oh boy, here we go...

To an extent kingwood is right, but to your comment, yes, that topic has beaten a dead horse with another dead horse...

No arguing in this thread please.

I don't know much about this kingwood kid, but I don't think I agree with anything he just said.

I would agree that the possibility of oxidation is real if one was careless and drizzled the "squeezed" beer into the resting beer, or squeezed the hops into a container without taking care to not splash or create any bubbles hence oxidizing the "pressed" liquid.

However, without turning this thread into a battle of who may be right, and who may be wrong, I am simply interested in any hard facts of why this may be a bad idea...other than, of course, oxidation...no matter what homebrewers do unless you have a closed system and purge everything post boil with co2, oxygen will creep into your final product somewhere.

Thanks for the input all, keep it coming!

Cheers!
 
As a new brewer I am confused about the comments about the smallest thing causing oxidation and the threads by Revvy saying oxidation isn't that big of an issue (here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/bottling-woes-beer-successfully-oxidized-161384/)

One thread makes it seem like the tiniest mistake will result in skunked pee water, and another thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/) with all sorts of crazy mistakes and the beer turned out fine.

I mean...how can squeezing hops cause oxidation but using the auto siphon as a pump NOT cause oxidation?
 
Toss your dryhops in loose and you won't feel the need of squeezing said bag. Hop particulates can be kept out of the bottling bucket by wrapping a nylon mesh bag around the end of the auto-siphon.

If you must bag your dryhops, then siphon directly from the primary until you cannot siphon any longer. What was meant to be siphoned will now be in your bottling bucket.

Why would you want to squeeze out the residuals of a wet sack of cloudy ass, yeast-coated hops that could F up your beer's quality, flavor, and clarity? You just have to ask yourself... "Quantity over Quality, or vice versa?"
 
Why would you want to squeeze out the residuals of a wet sack of cloudy ass, yeast-coated hops that could F up your beer's quality, flavor, and clarity? You just have to ask yourself... "Quantity over Quality, or vice versa?"

I think that's what the OP is asking - if it will "F up" the beer, and if so, how/why?
 
Toss your dryhops in loose and you won't feel the need of squeezing said bag. Hop particulates can be kept out of the bottling bucket by wrapping a nylon mesh bag around the end of the auto-siphon.

If you must bag your dryhops, then siphon directly from the primary until you cannot siphon any longer. What was meant to be siphoned will now be in your bottling bucket.

Why would you want to squeeze out the residuals of a wet sack of cloudy ass, yeast-coated hops that could F up your beer's quality, flavor, and clarity? You just have to ask yourself... "Quantity over Quality, or vice versa?"

1. No bottling only kegging
2. Beer was cold crashed for 3 days at 32°F, yeast collected during transfer was minimal.
3. will cold crash again before kegging to drop as much material/residual yeast out of secondary fementers

Basically, I want to regain the volume lost by absorption to the hops.

I asked the question because I struggle to see how it could harm the beer, but I really don't know if is has the possibility of causing any problemsin the final beer (other than possible oxidation.)
 
Next time squeeze the bag into a glass and take a sip. Then ask yourself if that's something you'd like in your beer.

For me, the answer is no.
 
I don't think that's a fair test. There are lots of things that we don't like concentrated but like very much at lower concentrations. A better idea would be to pour a bit of the squeezed liquid into a finished beer, like a neutral-ish pale ale. I haven't tried this, but I think I will next time I dry hop with whole hops.

The real question, as I see it, is whether squeezing the bag extracts unwanted compounds. It's hard for me to believe that it does, considering that we use ground hops (pellets) without worrying about overextraction. Of course, it's conventional wisdom that leaving dry hops in for too long will result in grassy flavors, but I wonder if this is truly a case of simple overextraction, or if it involves some sort of chemical change in the hops themselves as they sit in the beer.
 
I see what you're saying Gavagai, but it kind of is fair if you think about how you would be adding something awful-tasting to something great-tasting for the sole concept of having more of it. It will affect the final product's quality for the worse in some way, whether big or small.

In a loose sense, it would be kind of like pitching the whole 2 liters of starter instead of just the slurry. If you're willing to affect the flavor/quality in order to have 2 liters more beer, then good for you... not something I would do though.
 
OK - speaking from experience here - it won't hurt your beer, or I should say, it doesn't hurt MY beer. I dry hop with loose (not in a bag) wholeleaf hops regularly and when I go to rack to a bucket (or keg now that I'm kegging woohoo!!) I use a sanitized wire mesh strainer with a handle to scoop out the loose hops and I use (horror of horrors) my sanitized hand to press the absorbed beer out of the hops through the strainer. You effectively retain most of the absorbed beer and get the most tasty goodness out of the dry hops. I'm sure others won't or don't agree and that is fine - you make it your way and I'll make it mine. Just my $0.02.....
 
I see what you're saying Gavagai, but it kind of is fair if you think about how you would be adding something awful-tasting to something great-tasting for the sole concept of having more of it. It will affect the final product for the worse in some way, whether big or small.

I add awful tasting spices (if I were to eat them straight) to my cooking all the time; makes it taste great. The only way we can know what impact the liquid will have in a beer is to taste it in a beer.
 
I add awful tasting spices (if I were to eat them straight) to my cooking all the time; makes it taste great. The only way we can know what impact the liquid will have in a beer is to taste it in a beer.

That's not the same thing. You're talking about high potency flavorings added in very small amounts and for the purposes of flavor building, not more end volume of the product. A more equivalent example would be the starter scenario I used previously... or if making 20 gallons of stock for soup and leaving all of the foamy, fatty scum atop the stock that definitely affects the end quality/flavor/clarity, instead of skimming out those impurities and possibly ending up with 1 qt. less stock.
 
if your kegging, just put it in your keg. no big deal.

Same question though, when you pull it from the keg do you wring the beer out?

I do. My rational is this: C02 is heavier then 02. When the drops from the hop bag hit the beer surface, any splashing would be mixing co2 withe beer, not 02, and therefore mitigate any oxidation concerns.

That said, I turned a very clear DIPA into a very cloudy one by doing this just 2 days ago. I'm hoping the hop debris settles to the bottom of the keg and eventually it'll run clear again, but I also apparently have some hop debris blocking the diptube because it's pouring very slowly. I have thought of various fixes for this, but in the end, I'll just deal with a slow pour rather then mess with it anymore.
 
A better idea would be to pour a bit of the squeezed liquid into a finished beer

Sure, that works too. So long as you can isolate the flavors you've added.

I've done both ways and like the non-squeezed better in my finished beer.
But others may not. You may enjoy the harsh astringency it adds.
 
That's not the same thing. You're talking about high potency flavorings added in very small amounts. A more equivalent example would be the starter scenario used above.... or if making 20 gallons of stock for soup and leaving all of the foamy, fatty scum atop the stock that definitely affects the end quality/flavor/clarity, instead of skimming out those impurities and possibly ending up with 1 qt. less stock.
Of course it's possible that squeezing has a negative impact. All I'm arguing is that you can't know that simply by tasting the liquid on its own. I wouldn't argue that one should skim soup simply by tasting the fatty scum—of course that won't taste nice! Instead I would look at differences in the finished product. If squeezing really does make a beer worse, then you should be able to detect that difference when the squeezed liquid is diluted in beer. I don't know what the answer is, because I haven't done the test yet. Why not try it?

Sure, that works too. So long as you can isolate the flavors you've added.

I've done both ways and like the non-squeezed better in my finished beer.
But others may not. You may enjoy the harsh astringency it adds.

Well, you could taste the beer with/without the liquid side by side, of course.
 
The simple and factual case in point is that the residual liquid squeezed from a used hop bag does taste different/worse than the actual finalized beer. And I do know that by tasting the liquid on its own. So why reintroduce that to your beer?

I have done it in the past. Like TyTanium and others have said, it offers a harsh astringency and clouds up your beer.
 
The simple and factual case in point is that the residual liquid squeezed from a used hop bag does taste different/worse than the actual finalized beer. And I do know that by tasting the liquid on its own. So why reintroduce that to your beer?

I have done it in the past. Like TyTanium and others have said, it offers a harsh astringency and clouds up your beer.


I don't know how factual your last sentence is. It seems pretty subjective to me. If it were so simple you could easily justify leaving hops out of your brews completely because when you eat one, it tastes bad.
 
I don't know how factual your last sentence is. It seems pretty subjective to me.

It's an objective observation... but I guess the big variable would be, how hard/how much are you squeezing the bag? And how much of that murky bitter liquid is going into your final beer?

If it were so simple you could easily justify leaving hops out of your brews completely because when you eat one, it tastes bad.

Again, not the same thing/comparison. In the dryhop scenario, there are obviously good flavors/aromas that are being offered from these hops. But squeezing the bag for every piece of liquid left does not offer more of that "good" flavor/aroma. All the goodness that has been offered by these dryhops is already in your beer. Your additional squeezing is doing more harm than good by adding a very concentrated form of a hop liquid-beer combo, full of tiny particulates, harsh tannins and compounds. Will it F up your beer to the point of being undrinkable? No, unless you're squeezing results in a significant amount of liquid. Will the beer have been of higher quality if you did not squeeze out an additional quart of used murky bitter hop liquid and then reintroduce it to your beer? Of course... Like I said, I choose quality over quantity.
 
...because when you eat [a hop], it tastes bad.

Matter of opinion :mug:

but I guess the big variable would be, how hard/how much are you squeezing the bag? And how much of that murky bitter liquid is going into your final beer?
Very true. Even loose the hops will still drain some when the liquid level falls. Even moreso if bagged and the bag is removed (it will drip). And more still if the bag is allowed to drain. I've found all three of these options to be acceptable. But physically squeezing the bag results in a new animal (again, in my experience)...it's very cloudy, harsh and astringent, and was noticeable in the finished beer. My sample size is way too small to be anything other than anecdotal, but hopefully it can help guide other's judgement.
 
:mug: ^ Fair enough guys. I just started squeezing because I don't like losing pints at a time from my finished batch, but like I mentioned above, I may have taken a beautiful and delicious beer recently and turned it into a cloudy mess.
 
JB - the way I "tested" it was this:

Pulled out the bag (w/o squeezing) and kept it in a sanitized bowl. Started bottling my batch as normal. When I had a gallon left, I added some of the squeezed bag juice to it. Finished carbing & tasted side by side.

Done it a few different times, and liked the unsqueezed version better. Unscientific with small sample size, but that's what I found. Give it a go and see what you like.

Edit: Also, the squeezing didn't give me that much more, maybe 8-12 oz max.
 
JB - the way I "tested" it was this:

Pulled out the bag (w/o squeezing) and kept it in a sanitized bowl. Started bottling my batch as normal. When I had a gallon left, I added some of the squeezed bag juice to it. Finished carbing & tasted side by side.

Done it a few different times, and liked the unsqueezed version better. Unscientific with small sample size, but that's what I found. Give it a go and see what you like.

I keg unfortunately, but I could do the same and pour a pint into a glass before squeezing, then squeeze afterward, but then if you're right, I'd have screwed up the larger batch. I guess I could just pour 2 pints, both before I pull the bag without squeezing and add a bit of the hop juice to one of the glasses...

Edit: FWIW, I've only squeezed the hop bag twice, and I'm now drinking some of the most recent batch. It has cleared up, but it doesn't taste as good as it did before I squeezed the bag. Thanks for the info...maybe I'll manage not to screw up another batch by knowing this....
 
If you do any experimentation with it, please post. The more I learn about hops, the less I have a clue. Surprising plants.
 
JB - the way I "tested" it was this:

Pulled out the bag (w/o squeezing) and kept it in a sanitized bowl. Started bottling my batch as normal. When I had a gallon left, I added some of the squeezed bag juice to it. Finished carbing & tasted side by side.

Done it a few different times, and liked the unsqueezed version better. Unscientific with small sample size, but that's what I found. Give it a go and see what you like.

Edit: Also, the squeezing didn't give me that much more, maybe 8-12 oz max.
This is a much better test. It does make me wonder, though, why we don't get the same kinds of off-flavors from using pellet hops.
 
We all seem to expend great effort to emulate the hopping rates and practices of leading-edge commercial brewers. Never once in any of these threads or clone recipes have I seen discussed whether or not those breweries wring out the hops used at various points in the brewing process. As heavily as they hop in the boil, at whirlpool and in the fermenter, the wort losses could be pretty staggering when brewing on that scale. Anyone know what they do?
 
I have heard of using a centrifuge to "wring" out the hops to gain efficiency in the highly hopped brews. In fact I read somewhere that one of the major craft breweries was going to start because of the losses. However they are working with much larger volumes than a homebrewer so what are we actually gaining by doing so? I have squeezed and just thrown it out without squeezing. I didn't think it made the beer taste bad by any means but it probably wasn't as good as it could have been. One beer that i did squeeze the hops out got a second place in a local competition and it was clear as can be after 3 weeks in the keg (Amarillo Pale Ale)
 
I'm still torn, do it...don't do it. I guess I'll see how much volume I lose in each fermenter, if its negligeable, I'll leave it alone.
 
I use sanitized togs to gently squeeze the liquid out of my hop bag. I have never ruined a beer with harsh flavors from this. Of course, I don't stand on the bag and try to get every drop of liquid out. No problems with oxidation either.

This thread has made me curious, however. For those who just throw the hop bag into the keg, wouldn't this add the same concentrated hop/beer mixture to the finished beer? Even more, in fact? I don't see anyone saying this will add a harsh taste to the beer. Why would squeezing some of the beer out of a hop bag (which would then be diluted into 5 or 10 gallons of beer) ruin a batch, but throwing the whole hop bag in the keg wouldn't?
 
Alright, I kegged the 10g's earlier tonight, and I did not squeeze.

I thought it was interesting though....One variety (Belma) which had much larger cones than the Citra returned a lesser volume. Even though both batches were nearly identical, the larger cones seemed to suck more juice out of the batch.

Prelim tasting notes:
Citra IPA - nice tropical nose, quite bitter in the back end, overall flavor is mellow.
(I'm hoping the carbonation makes the difference in this beer.)

Belma IPA - Strange aroma. Smells very earthy, but upon tasting the brew has a slight berry (strawberry?) flavor. similar to the Citra it is bitter on the back end, but the flavor is quite mellow. I hope the carbonation provides whats missing.
 
Back
Top