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Okay, so car batteries aren't happening, we can leave that well enough alone. I've done some more thinking, and here is what I've come up with, in terms of what needs to be done, and how I want it to be done.

I'm not ready to start buying parts this very second, so a wiring diagram is not yet necessary - For now, I'd mostly like help "thinking through" the process that I have come up with, and making sure I'm not overlooking huge issues with my build strategy.

1) Spa Panel

- At least 30A GFCI - however, I'd like to do simultaneous brews - To recap, my HLT instruction manual lists its' requirement as "240 VAC, Max Amperage 25A, Breaker required 30A" and, to my knowledge, it uses 2x 3000W LWD(?) elements. I intend to plug the HLT directly into the Spa Panel on one outlet, and plug my Brewery Controller in to a second outlet on the Panel (and NOT plug the HLT in to the Controller). So, more likely, I will want either a 50A or 60A Spa Panel. Need to do some "real math" to figure out what the Brewmation HLT actually needs. (I've got conflicting info on what is its' wattage.)
- I will also need to purchase two 30A 220V 4-prong female receptacles - one to plug the HLT into and one for the Controller.
- Lastly, I will need a small amount of decent gauge wire, to make the connections for both outlets, and a way to cut the hole into the enclosure. (I have a random-ass pile of short (6"-18") scraps of what looks to be heavy duty, solid core copper. They were extras from a Facilities team that did some work in our building. While cleaning up their mess for them, I decided the scraps of wire were recyclable for future projects.)

1.5) HLT - Nothing needs to be done immediately. Long-term, I plan to drill two holes, install two weldless bulkheads, and attach an In/Out for a Heat Exchanger coil within the HLT. That will come after I have a fully working system - No need to incorporate it into the Alpha version.

2) Pump Assembly

- I already have a March PL-809-HS 120V with molded cord. I would like to keep the cord intact, so I'll mount an outlet within the enclosure for this configuration. Then, if I want to take the pump with me somewhere, I can remove it from the Assembly Box, unplug it from the outlet, and away I go.
- I want to house the Assembly in a toolbox or other protective enclosure, containing both the Pump Motor/Housing, and the circuitry. (The Pump Head may stick out from one end, with the two hoses accessible, or something like that... haven't figured out the right "box" yet or how things will be positioned. )
- I want to add a DPDT(?) switch to the Pump Assembly, the switch will toggle between A) ALWAYS ON mode, B) "neutral"/Off, and C) TEMP CONTROLLER mode. When in Temp Controller mode, the pump can be used to perform recirculation of the mash through a HEX to maintain temp. or even step-mash.
- I want to add an Auber PID + SSR(?) to this enclosure. The SSR does **NOT** need to be massive, I will only be powering the March Pump with this SSR, *not any elements* so 40A/220V is not necessary. (My paperwork indicates the March Pump requires approx. 2A @ 120V.)
---When in Temp controller mode, this activates the Auber PID, and turns the pump on as-needed to maintain (or increase) the temp. of the mash.
---When in "Always On" mode, this would bypass the PID entirely.
- The Pump Assembly will also need a Temp Probe connector and a probe assembly. I am thinking an RTD type probe - and XLR 3-Pin male connector/female receptacle mounted on the enclosure to make it detachable for storage.
- The Pump Assembly should have its' own 120V cord, which will plug in to a single 120V 10A outlet on the Brewery Controller (which is protected by GFCI upstream in the Spa Panel).
- I would assume that I need to build a safety fuse somewhere into this assembly.
- One last note, the PID, SSR(?), and Mode Switch do not need to be on the Alpha version of the Pump Ass'y. It can be initially built for Always On, with sufficient room to mount & wire up the necessary parts to add the PID mode later on.

3) Electric Kettle

- I already have a spare 15gal Aluminum wide-body stock pot. I have my thin-wall Propane one, and a thick-wall one that I picked up recently second-hand. I am thinking... oddly enough... that I will use the thin-wall, propane kettle - as my electric - and build a new propane one from the thicker-wall kettle. The reason for this is that, outdoors in the cold when the wind picks up, my thin kettle acts as a giant heat-sink and strips away heat faster than my burner can keep up with it.
- One of the two kettles will get a hole drilled & a weldless bulkhead & 1/2" valve installed. (Doesn't matter which one - the other kettle already has the same bulkhead/valve - let's move on.)
- Punch the 1 1/4" hole for the Weldless Element.
- Tentative: Buy a pre-assembled element kit from TheElectricBrewery or eBrewSupply (roughly same price/quality). Mount in kettle. Done. Have a beer & congratulate self.
---Possible: Undertake making my own element assembly. (The biggest part that I do not want to deal with is the cutting/sanding/painting - NOT the electric work! I just don't have much by way of tools that cut metal in a controlled & nice-looking manner.)
- No question in my mind: I want to go with the Camco 5500W ULWD element.
- I do not need a sight glass - but maybe I'll make a stupid-simple Marker Stick to check my water level with. (It *should* work the same on both of my kettles, too!)
- No temp sensor either - If I want a "warning" to sound when I start approaching boiling, I will just use my existing "simple" stand alone thermometer/timer, and set the alarm on it for 205*F.
- Long-term, I will want to punch another hole and add a Float Switch for safety measures. This does NOT need to be in the Alpha build.

4) Brewery Controller

- I know I want this to be on the small side, NOT a giant one-panel-does-all like the Kal build. I think I would like it to be wall mounted, but that is subject to change based on the actual layout of my room and equipment once things start to come together.
- It should have a Controller Master On/Off Switch in it - that literally just disconnects & energizes the panel at the earliest point on the wiring diagram. I have read that it is a good idea to add a controller-wide safety fuse to this same area of the diagram.
- I'm okay with incorporating an eStop button + having it trigger the Spa Panel GFCI, as long as it's not too costly to add. Otherwise, I will just plan to use the Master On/Off for this purpose - and the Spa Panel will be in a physically accessible place where I can also kill power at the breaker without reaching over/past my equipment.
- It should NOT have a PID. I want to *only* control my boil kettle with this controller. After considering the benefit vs. expense, I know I want to go the PWM route - especially if I can find friend or family to solder it for me, as I have no interest in learning to solder, I am not a fine-motor-skills guy and have no intent to solder again in the future, just a one-time need.
- The PWM will pair up to an SSR of specs 220V / 40A. I have read that I also need a fuse for the SSR.
--- Note to self: Look into phase angle SSR instead of PWM circuit, to accomplish same goal.
- I want to add a Kettle Mode Switch - a DPDT(?) switch to the panel to go between "100%"/bypass PWM circuit, and "0-99%"/Enable PWM circuit. That way, when I am ramping up to boil, I can just flip it to 100% until the boil begins. Center position would be "No Contact" or for my automotively-inclined brain, "Neutral" on the shifter box.
- It should have a Kettle Element On indicator light. (Low expense, hooks up inline and doesn't add unnecessary complexity to the diagram, so I figure, "why not?")
- It should have an Kettle Intensity knob, which controls the PWM circuit when in "0-99%" mode.
- It should have one 120V 10A outlet using one of the two Hot legs - this outlet should be always-on regardless of Kettle Mode Switch position (but, still disabled by the Master ON/OFF switch).
Operation:
- When heating strike, and mashing, the Controller Master Switch will be turned On (so that the pump operates), but the Kettle Mode Switch would be in "neutral". Meanwhile, the HLT would be ON and maintaining temperature.
- When sparging, the HLT can be turned Off at the beginning of the sparge - the Controller Master Switch remains on, and the Pump Assembly continues pumping, Once sufficient wort is collected in the BK, the Kettle Control Switch would be moved to the 100% position.
- Once sparge has completed, the Pump Assembly would be turned off, and I would wait until boil began - then, immediately switch the KCS over to "0-99%" mode, and adjust the PWM Intensity Knob to a point where I maintain a boil but am not firing my element needlessly.
- At the end of boil, Pump Assembly would be turned back on, hot wort circ'ed through my CFC until sanitized, and then I would turn the KCS back to "neutral", then proceed to chill my wort as normal.
- Once chilling/collection ends, I would turn off the Controller Master Switch, which in turn shuts off the Pump Assembly. The HLT was already powered off, so at this point, I can turn the Spa Panel off entirely before I begin clean-up stage.

5) Infrastructure - The expensive and fun part - I only have 100A service - And if I plan to go 60A so that I can brew back-to-back, I will positively have to get my service drop upgraded to 200A. Oh well, It needs a new panel & service upgrade anyways. Hopefully we can do it less expensively than I think we can, and hopefully it adds enough to the house value that we're not totally screwed when we move. So, in short, new 50A or 60A service, running to the brew room, and terminating in a 4-prong 220V receptacle. The Spa Panel should be free-standing and plug into this receptacle, so that it is not permanent fixture / subject to code.

Summary
So basically, what I'm saying is, the Alpha version will only have the Spa Panel, HLT as-is, Master On/Off Switch, Kettle element/cable and receptacle, Kettle PWM Controller, and 100%/Neutral/0-99% switch, then the 120V Pump outlet, and the Alpha version of the Pump Assembly will only have the enclosure, pump, and power cord.

The Beta version will add the PID, SSR, and Mode Switch to the Pump Ass'y, and also add the HEX coil and bulkheads to the HLT.

Either during Alpha phase - or else when I enter Beta phase - I will also need to buy all of the QD's necessary for the system, and replace all of my loose/stained braided vinyl hoses with new, silicone, permanently-assembled, hose assemblies.

The Final version will add one more pump (probably just a Harbor Freight sump pump) that would give me the ability to recirc ice water for chilling instead of using my ground water - and maybe also incorporate a Float Switch in to the kettle - and perhaps a Timer + Buzzer, if I feel randy like that. But, we will get to that later on, once we have an Alpha version and glimpses of working on Beta. For now, a $12 Big Number Timer will do just fine for me - as will ground water for chilling.

WHEW! So there you have it! Thoughts. Input. Criticisms. Free beer. Whatever you've got, lay it on me.

So how are you controlling temperature in the HLT? It sounds like you are proposing to turn the recirculation to MLT pump on and off to control mash temp. Why would you do that rather than recirculate constantly and control HLT temp with a PID? That's the more typical approach.
 
Because the HLT is a stand-alone unit. It has an off/on switch for master power, and a Love controller that handles temp. control for the element. (Also has a float switch.)

So, I'd set the HLT to my desired strike (then, sparge) temps - and I'd use the freestanding Pump Assembly with built in PID to control turning the pump on and off as needed, to recirculate the wort through the HEX for maintaining mash temp and/or step mashing.

Controlling the pump on/off is actually the same way High Gravity shows their EBC III controller being used. In the video, the left PID controls the HLT (my Love does this) and the right PID (which I'd mount in the Pump Ass'y) controls the pump on/off.
[ame]http://youtu.be/dwr3gQeMSMI[/ame]
 
Tiniest of project updates ever...

I put a new tap onto my kegerator yesterday. I burned through my spade bits doing the original faucet installations the first time around, but instead of buying and ruining more bits, I decided this was a good opportunity to practice using a new tool..... PUNCHES!

I managed to drill a pilot, drill out the plastic housing behind it, and punch a 7/8" hole into the fridge door with very little fuss.

I now feel confident punching holes to start making the panel! Woo! One small step for brewman kind... Furthermore, I'm quite impressed with the clean cut that these punches make. Who would've known?!

Also, I managed to wire together my Ranco ETC-11100 back in June 2013... after two years staring at it, clueless what to do.

And now, I ordered an STC-1100 off of Amazon, and this past weekend, I was able to build a STC-1000-based temperature controller from scratch, using a dual-gang outlet box. I wired up one outlet to each zone, and tested that COOL turns on the appropriate outlet. HURRAH! More success!

Bit by bit, I am edging towards the point where I might actually be able to undertake this project.

One last addition to my arsenal of tools: An amazon.com Rewards credit card. Muahahaha. Earn points on every brewing purchase? Yes, yes, I would like quadruple points. Excellent.
 
Referring to this 60A GFCI Spa Panel .... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GLCYCK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

"125 Amp
60 Amp two pole GFCI included
2 extra spaces for branch circuits"

My goal is to plug two separate 30A plugs into the power source.

One 30A plug (NEMA 14-30) goes to my already-existing HLT.
The other 30A plug (Still To Be Bought, probably NEMA L14-30R) will be a male-to-male cable assembly which leads to the Brew Control Panel.

Would I need two 30A breakers down-stream from the 60A GFCI breaker that is included inside this spa panel?
Do they need to go in a separate enclosure? Or can the 60A GFCI feed power directly into two 30A non-GFCI breakers within the same panel?
By doing so, do I "skip" the GFCI or is it still protecting both circuits?

Do I need separate 30A breakers in the first place? Or do I really just need to run cable from the 60A GFCI directly to two 30A outlets, assuming neither is plugged into something that will ever draw more than 30A at a time?

Or... Am I WAY over-thinking this... and in actuality, I just need to have my electrician put two new 30A GFCI breakers into my upgraded main panel for the house, run two wires, and terminate them in two separate 30A outlets in my brew room, thus eliminating any spa panel silliness, AND, eliminating the whole two-breakers-off-of-one-breaker situation?
 
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If you don't have breakers downstream both outlets need to be able to handle the full 60A load if you want to conform to NEC. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm an EE not an electrician.

I don't even know what having breakers downstream would do to the GFCI upstream... I'm sure someone with more knowledge than myself can be of more help
 
I'm an EE not an electrician.

Heh heh, I assume that to both EEs and electricians, i must be your worst nightmare: A computer hardware technician with no knowledge of the underlying science! That way I know lots of words, but what none of them mean!

I'm still amazed I managed to work in hardware repair for 3 years and never had to discharge a CRT. Thank god for flat panels. I probably would've croaked otherwise.

So ... at least the two 30A outlets off of a 60A breaker is a bad idea. I knew something seemed too easy.

I am kind of thinking separate 30A GFCI circuits would be the simpler way to accomplish the goal.

The only drawback would be that, if I ever triggered the GFCI, I'd have to remember they trip separately -- one device is still hot, even while the other device is cold.

I've gotta convince my electrician to chat about this over a beer sometime... shame he's been so busy on important (and well paying!) jobs.
 
One suggestion would be to run one 60a feed through the spa panel to the control panel with appropriately rated cable (6 AWG). You could then split it inside the panel, to two 25 or 30a breakers, which would allow you to drop to 10 AWG downstream. Of course, you could use additional fuses and smaller gauge wire for your lower draw pumps, switches, lights, electronics, etc.
 
I have another dumb question. (I have LOTS of dumb questions!) In the Electric Brewery instructions, it says...
Figuring our current is simple using Ohms law as we know the elements are 5500W and that they use 240 volts AC:

Current = Power / Voltage = 5500 watts / 240 VAC = 22.9 Amps

Our elements will draw 22.9 Amps. The proper size electrical wire for 22.9 amps is 10 gauge or lower (i.e. bigger) as (generally speaking) 10 gauge wire is used in circuits that carry up to 30 amps in household use. The voltage rating of the wire should be 240V or higher. 300V and 600V are common ratings found on electrical wiring. This is the sort of wiring you'd see used on a household clothes dryer as dryers use 240 VAC / 30 Amp outlets.

Why 240 VAC and not 220 VAC? Is there a difference? (Meaning, in actual real-world application. Mathematically, there is a difference, which is why I ask!!!)

The reason I ask this, is that I'm calculating different loads for the HLT and the rest of the system. The HLT came with two 3000W elements, the BK will use one 5500W element.

6000 watts / 240 VAC = 25 Amps
6000 watts / 220 VAC = 27.27 Amps

5500 watts / 240 VAC = 22.91 Amps
5500 watts / 220 VAC = 25 Amps

See what I mean? Makes it hard to be sure I'm doing this right.
 
Also, I've decided to pull the trigger: I'm going to order the parts to do the kettle element build + installation.
I figure it's a good first step towards getting somewhere with this project, and it's impact is limited in the event I royally muck it up... worst case I'm out $100 or so, excluding the cost of a couple tools I need to order anyways, and INcluding the cost of the aluminum kettle if I ruin it.
Once I get that done, we will see if the rest of this still seems achievable. :fro:
 
As far as the 220VAC vs 240VAC goes... It is nominally 240 at the pole where the line splits off to come into your house. Some people say 220 because of losses in the line from the pole to your panel. This is not really true anymore, it should still be nominally 240. There is really no way to know unless you measure the voltage at your control panel. If you do not have a volt meter assume for the worst case scenario. The wattage of your element will never change (in a perfect world), so the lower the voltage, the higher the current draw.
 
I have another dumb question. (I have LOTS of dumb questions!) In the Electric Brewery instructions, it says...


Why 240 VAC and not 220 VAC? Is there a difference? (Meaning, in actual real-world application. Mathematically, there is a difference, which is why I ask!!!)

The reason I ask this, is that I'm calculating different loads for the HLT and the rest of the system. The HLT came with two 3000W elements, the BK will use one 5500W element.

6000 watts / 240 VAC = 25 Amps
6000 watts / 220 VAC = 27.27 Amps

5500 watts / 240 VAC = 22.91 Amps
5500 watts / 220 VAC = 25 Amps

See what I mean? Makes it hard to be sure I'm doing this right.

That's not really how the math works, if I remember it correctly (it's been a long time). An element that delivers 5500 watts of power at 240v, will draw 22.91a, as you have stated. But the relationship between volts and amps follows Ohm's law (volts = amps x resistance). The resistance is constant, so when you reduce volts you also reduce amps. In this case 240v = 22.91a times the resistance, so the resistance is 10.48 ohms.

At 220v, amps = 220v divided by 10.48 ohms = 21a. So you are actually drawing less amperage at 220v.

This also means you are getting less than 5500w of power, as power = amps times volts = 21a times 220v = 4620.18w.

Bottom line is that if you size your wiring based upon 240v, and you get less, you will be fine. If I screwed up any of the physics, I am sure someone here can correct me. :)
 
That's not really how the math works, if I remember it correctly (it's been a long time). An element that delivers 5500 watts of power at 240v, will draw 22.91a, as you have stated. But the relationship between volts and amps follows Ohm's law (amps = volts divided by the square of the resistance). The resistance is constant, so when you reduce volts you also reduce amps. In this case 22.91a = 240v divided by the square of the resistance, so the resistance is 0.31 ohms.

At 220v, amps = 220v divided by the square of 0.31 = 21.01a. So you are actually drawing less amperage at 220v.

This also means you are getting less than 5500w of power, as power = amps times volts = 21.01a times 220v = 4621.53w.

Bottom line is that if you size your wiring based upon 240v, and you get less, you will be fine. If I screwed up any of the physics, I am sure someone here can correct me. :)

I'm not sure where you learned this but Ohm's law states that V = I x R and P = V x A or P = I^2 x R or P = V^2 / R.

Less voltage will always result in more current because, like you said, the element will always have the same resistance.

Here you go: Ohm's Law

FormulaWheelElectronics.gif
 
Less voltage will always result in more current because, like you said, the element will always have the same resistance.
That is incorrect.

I haven't looked at the previous poster's math, but he is correct that if the voltage goes down the power output of a heating element goes down as well. This because heating element has a fixed resistance. Less voltage means less current since resistance is fixed, which results in less power.

For example:

Resistance of a 5500W element is fixed at about 10.4 ohms, while resistance of a 4500W element is fixed at about 12.8 ohms.

Power =(Voltage^2)/Resistance

Since Resistance is fixed, when voltage goes down, so does power.

And since Ohms law tells us that Current (I) = Voltage / Resistance, when Voltage goes down, so does current when the resistance is fixed (as is the case with heating elements).

Real world examples of power output & current draw as voltage goes down:

A 5500W element running at 240V: Around 5538W (draws around 23A)

A 5500W element running at 208V: Around 4160W (draws around 20A)

A 5500W element running at 120V: Around 1384W (draws around 11.5A)

Kal
 
And that's what I get for not knowing how heating elements work and assuming the power rating of the element is fixed. Sorry about the misunderstanding
 
Thanks for clarifying!! It definitely makes sense why I should use 240 VAC to plan off of, and accept that my actual usage may be slightly lower -- rather than planning everything to just barely work within the tolerances, and finding my actual usage to be higher than I anticipated.

I got my 10/3 SOOW wire, 2-gang box, cover, and JB Weld last night. I'm ordering the rest of the parts on Amazon right as we speak.

I may not have a panel to plug it into, but I think I can actually manage to get an element fitted, wired, and mounted in a kettle, danggummit!
 
....and Order Placed. Somehow an Arduino Uno and an 8-port 5V relay board snuck on to there. How did that happen? Oh well. Guess I'll have to use them.

Now, to obsessively catalog my purchases in a spreadsheet in the hope of someday answering the inevitable question of "How much did that thing cost?!?" while I wait for the parts to arrive.

Jeez, if I get the element wired and installed before New Year's, my electrician might (hehehe, I can't resist) get a big shock -- by finally getting the go-ahead to upgrade my panel!!
 
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