Backsweetening and priming question

I've searched the forum to try to find a standard answer but can't seem to find agreement. I have a cider fermented with ale yeast that is fermented to completion. I want to lightly backsweeten with ajc but am not sure how much to use in a five gallon batch to make a slightly sweet carbonated cider. I plan on stove top pasturizing after its carbed. Thanks for any help

brewvandal said:

I've searched the forum to try to find a standard answer but can't seem to find agreement. I have a cider fermented with ale yeast that is fermented to completion. I want to lightly backsweeten with ajc but am not sure how much to use in a five gallon batch to make a slightly sweet carbonated cider. I plan on stove top pasturizing after its carbed. Thanks for any help

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I think the best answer you will get is sweeten to taste. Carb will use very little of the sugar you sweeten it with so I would just sweeten to taste, a little at a time

That seems to make entirely too much sense. Thanks for the response

If " fermented to completion" means it has reached max alcohol tolerance for the ale yeast, it won't carb regardless.

+1 to sweetening to taste with AJC. Then add another ~0.003 SG of AJC to the batch as priming sugar to carb.

Bluespark said:

If " fermented to completion" means it has reached max alcohol tolerance for the ale yeast, it won't carb regardless.

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Then how are we supposed to go from a primary to a secondary, then bottle and still have enough yeast to carb?

(Forgive me Bluespark, I'm new)

Edit/afterthought: Doesn't the yeast eat all the sugar and that's what stops the fermentation, is no more sugar? Not lack of yeast?

If you add more sugar won't that start to turn it to alcohol again? Thus carbonating if you put it under pressure in a vessel?

It WILL carb.

BadgerBrigade said:

Then how are we supposed to go from a primary to a secondary, then bottle and still have enough yeast to carb?

(Forgive me Bluespark, I'm new)

Edit/afterthought: Doesn't the yeast eat all the sugar and that's what stops the fermentation, is no more sugar? Not lack of yeast?

If you add more sugar won't that start to turn it to alcohol again? Thus carbonating if you put it under pressure in a vessel?

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What he means is that every yeast has an alcohol tolerance (usually at least 8-10%), and after that has been reached it simply can no longer operate. It can't ferment or carbonate. That's not usually going to happen with cider though.

I've done this many times. Trust me. For a 4 gallon batch I usually do 3-4 cans of AJC. I transfer to a secondary, I cold crash, I leave little yeast behind and it carbs up nice. Add your AJC at time of bottling, mix to your taste preference, bottle and leave bottles at 70+degrees F for a few days. You can do a plastic tester bottle along with your glass bottles to gauge how your carb build up is doing. Once bottle is rock hard place your bottles in the fridge.

bottlebomber said:

What he means is that every yeast has an alcohol tolerance (usually at least 8-10%), and after that has been reached it simply can no longer operate. It can't ferment or carbonate. That's not usually going to happen with cider though.

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I am using EC1118 and my OG was 1.060
So I think that means my cider will be about 8%.
So, if I let it sit in the primary for a month and then transfer to a secondary for a month and add priming sugar I should have enough yeast to still carb, correct?

(I was told that EC can go up to %18 if you want it too and have enough sugar)

And will this be the same with my pear? The only reason I ask is because with that batch I'm using D 47 yeast?

The stove top pasteurization is beyond me and may make the rest of my response irrelevant, so keep that in mind

You have an ale yeast that can reach a maximum alcohol percentage. If you have already reached that percentage then any additional sugars you add will remain unchanged (i. e. no carbonation will occur, only sweetening). If you have not reached that percentage then any additional sugars you add will ferment until either the max attenuation/alcohol has been reached, or until all sugar has been consumed. Unless you have a method of controlling the carbonation level and stopping it at a specific point, you run the risk of bottle bombs. Perhaps this is where the stove top pasteurization comes into play??

One method of achieving what you're after is to stabalize your cider where it is using sulfites and/or sorbate, and then backsweeten, force carbonate in a keg, and bottle from the keg. The downside is that this requires extra equipment that you may not have access to.

Another potential would be to backsweeten using an unfermentable sugar and then add the AJC in the quantities needed to solely carbonate. This assumes that there is still potential in the yeast.

HTH!