Saison BBD Saison Furtif

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ChshreCat said:
I dissolved the sugar into a small amount of boiling water and added to the fermenter just as the ferment started to wind up.
Click to expand...

exactly what i did.

my FG ended up a tad high (1.006) but in tasting it, i think this is one of the best beers i have made so far. THANKS AGAIN CAT (ps, i only have 5 APAs left, 1 in the fridge that I will be keeping there until I am back from Hawaii and 4 that i have to split up and ship to a couple locations around the country)
 
I've been looking for a Saison recipe for some time now and I like this one but I don't think I can Partial mash 8lbs of grain so I came up with this. what do you guys think?

3 lbs. Pilsner
1.5 lbs. Munich
1 lb. wheat
6 lbs. Pale LME
1 lb. Light Belgian candy sugar

.5 oz. Perle (60 mins)
1 oz. Hallertauer (20 mins)
1/2 oz. Perle (10 mins)
1/2 oz. Saaz (10 mins)

Wyeast 3711

OG. 1.067
FG. 1.013
IBU 25
SRM 4
ABV 7.2% with 80% attenuation
 
I just moved my saison to the keg. The sample tasted great; better than most of my beers at this point.
 
Hey Cat,

How'd this one fair in competition? love me some 3711. by far my go to Saison yeast. Doing a Saison Brett Saison right now. 3711 doesn't leave much for the brett to eat though! Cheers!
 
Quick question ChshreCat... Your OP says Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale .


It seems that 3711 is the French Saison and 3724 is the Belgian Saison...

It is my understanding that with a Saison the yeast is one of the most important aspects... Your recipe sounds amazing and I do not want to mess it up with the wrong yeast, though the difference may be minimal between 3711 and 3724, I want to make sure I do it correct... can you just confirm that you used 3711 "French Saison" as opposed to 3724 "Belgian Saison" Thank you so much and I will certainly update after I brew this sometime this week....
 
these are tasting really good at this point. i undercarbed a bit using 4.6oz for the whole batch, but given time it will carb up more probably.

these dont taste at all alcoholy to me and will definitely kick your ass if yuo aren't paying attention. i gave one to a friend who stopped by the other day who told me he hadnt eaten anything after he was done drinking it. needless to say, he had to stick around for awhile.
 
ChshreCat said:
BBD Saison Furtif
Bronze certificate at NHC 2010 with a score of 29. Should have scored higher, but the bottle I sent had some oxidation.

Brew Type: Partial Mash
Style: Saison Brewer: BBD Brewing
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 4.10 gal Boil Time: 60 min



Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 lb Pale Liquid Extract [Boil for 5 min] Extract 33.33 %
5.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 37.04 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.81 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.41 %
0.50 oz Pearle [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [3.30 %] (20 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.50 oz Pearle [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (10 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
1.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 7.41 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile:
Measured Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.000 SG
Estimated Color: 8.3 SRM
Bitterness: 28.8 IBU (20.0-35.0 IBU)
Alpha Acid Units: 7.4 AAU
Actual Alcohol by Volume: 8.75 %

My first try at a saison and it came out amazing. Taste is citrusy and tart. Peppery aftertaste at the back of your tongue.

I named this Saison Furtif because "furtif" means "stealthy" in French and this one sneaks up on you and kicks you in the ass if you're not paying attention. Nearly 9% abv and it doesn't taste like anything over 4 or 5. Definite hit with the ladies so it can go in the same category as the SWMBO Slayer. I gave a couple bottles of this to a friend to take home and try. His non-beer-liking wife tried a sip, had a longer drink and then stole it from him.

The sugar went it after main fermentation was starting to wind down. Dissolved in just enough water to get it to dissolve and poured right into the primary.

Definitely use the 3711 yeast with this. It chewed right through the maltose, had plenty of steam left for the sucrose and dried this puppy right out to 1.000. Other saison yeasts will probably give you trouble and likely won't finish as dry as this one. This yeast is amazing.

Mashed at 150F or a hair under for 75 minutes. Fermented in the 80's. Brewed in early August and just let ambient temp carry it along.

This sat in the secondary longer than the one week proscribed above, but that was just due to my being distracted by house hunting at the time. I think the extra time helped it condition faster, but shouldn't have affected the final product and I'll probably try to stick closer to one week next time I brew it but more time in the fermenter is usually a good thing anyway.

Carbonated naturally with 1oz corn sugar per gallon to make it nice and sparkly and bottled.
Click to expand...

Hey, Cat. This sounds BA. I'm curious how big (in gallons) your mash was, your sparge, and how long you left it in the bottle. I'm thinking about using your recipe only cut down to 3 gallons. Thoughts? Thanks for the contribution. The recipe alone makes me thirsty!
 
question i posed earlier ITT:
mash in with 2.5gal strike and sparge with 2gal (accounting for some boil off) would give roughly 4.1 gal boil, afterwards topping off to 5.5 gal in primary.

make those numbers into ratios and you'll do well. why wouldnt you do 5 though?

once you taste one, you would kick yourself for not having made more...
 
I usually do 1.25qts per lb of grain to start with, then add hot or cold water to adjust my mash temp as needed. Then I sparge to fill my boil kettle.

This stuff holds up VERY well in bottles. It's drinkable once it's carbonated, gets better after another few weeks and I've drank bottles several years old and it was fantastic.
 
I see what you two are getting at! Unfortunately, all my 5 gals are lagering for some time. So 3 gallons it must be... I'll run it through hopville to make sure I get it right.

Cat, you say 1.25 qts per pound? I'd always heard 2 qts. Thoughts?
 
1.5 has always been what I've known as the standard. going with 1.25 gives me a little room to add hot or cold water to adjust the temp without the mash getting too thin. I think 2qts would be too thing of a mash to start with and would get thinner if adjustments needed to be made.
 
Thanks, you two. I'll go with 1.25 per lb of grain (once I figure out what that is) and see where it goes. I'm tempted to buy the new 5er but I need to build a mash tun first. Curious, what do you two use? And how do your processes do with holding temps? One cool thing about 3 gal is I can use the pot-within-a-pot method that gives me pretty steady temps.
 
I use an igloo beverage cooler that I fitted with a ball valve. Before I got that, I just use the old spaghetti pot. Once I hit temps, I'd put it in a warmed then turned off oven. The residual heat would keep the mash at temp really well. You just have to reheat it for a minute at the halfway mark (when I'd usually get it out to stir it anyway) and it'd hold temp for the rest of the way.

And I agree... go get a new carboy. 6 gallon Better Bottle, preferred. Or just get a bucket! No need to go fancy with an extra fermenter.
 
How does the Igloo do with holding temp? Just curious. And I can't convince myself to go plastic on a fermenter. Don't know why. Also, Wyeast #3711 is the French Saison. Is that the right one?
 
yes, its named french saison. Wyeast 3711.

I did not build a mash tun. when i mash doing partials, i simply use my 7 gal pot to hold the temp (which works quite well) and then i sparge with my 3gal spaghetti pot. if you don't have a cooler for a tun, you can sustain the temps by using a pot and, as cat says, control the temp with hot or cold water if you need to. I have my notes from this brewday at home; if you need me to, i can grab them later and give you more exact numbers.

I used to keep the heat on very low to compensate for temperature loss but that actually made my temps go WAY too high and usually ended up with grossly high FGs due to unfermentables from that.
 
Plastic fermenters are just fine. If you want to pay the extra $$$ for glass, that's up to you, but there's no reason to.

My cooler mash tun holds the heat exceptionally well. Only a few degrees of temp loss over an hour. I put towels on the lid and wrap the ball valve to keep it better insulated. Many folks will fill the lid with spray in foam insulation to make it even better.
 
I tried this recipe as I was looking for a good saison. I did a 10 gallon batch and decided to add the sugar to 5 gallons near end of primary and leave it out of the other 5. OG was 1.070 before sugar. With sugar added I calculated that one to be 1.074.
The one with sugar got down to 1.007 and is sitting for a while in a secondary and still going just a bit. The one without the sugar finished at 1.009 and is carbed and on tap.
I took it to a club meeting and it got great reviews. This may be my best brew yet. Great pale orange color, lots of flavor, strong but you would never know it. I can't wait to see what happens with the one still waiting.
Thanks cat!
 
Glad you liked it. If you used 3711, I think they still had a little work for the yeast to do, but since you're kegging it I don't see that as being a problem if it's a few points high.

If the only difference between the two batches was the sugar, it'll be interesting to hear your opinion on how that changes it. There's some folks on here who swear by no sugar additions with the 3711 yeast, so this would be an interesting test. I was considering trying my recipe with less/no sugar as well.
 
Hey, Cat. I'm thinking I'm going forward with a 5 gal version. Since you did 5.5, do you think I need to revise the recipe or boil volume at all? I was just planning on keeping everything the same, but I don't want to screw it up. Appreciate any thoughts you have.
 
I always do 5.5 gallons so I end up with 5 gallons at the end. I always lose some when I rack, so this way I always get an even 5 gallons into my bottling bucket.
 
couple questions for you guys who have experimented with this recipe, im new here to this site great recipes btw, but ordered yeast as said in recipes but gonna be fermenting with daytime temps of 85-90 in long island ny any great change in fermation time and or taste? thanks for any help
 
I fermented in that range with this. You might get some more fusel alcohol flavors in it but they're not bad.
 
You'll definitely get some fusels at the upper 80's to mid 90's with this yeast. It'll also be a very dry beer, and I've tasted a local breweries saison that ferment in the mid 90's with this strain and there was definitely some off flavors at the end of the taste. An after taste of astringency, or something weird. I'd try and keep this yeast no higher then 85 degrees. That's just my opinion though. Basement floor, or swamp color would be your best bet. Pitch a healthy yeast starter or two packs and you should be fine. This is a forgiving yeast! I've fermented it at 62 degrees and it still tastes phenomenal!
 
thanks for the help gentleman will be trying this saturday, thanks for the timely responses i need the help one of my first partials gonna try two this wkend
 
sorry for the delay... out job hunting.
yes warm is good for this yeast. for me it brings out the peppery spice. doing a "lite version" adjusting hops down and malt down to the 5% range. If I end up high (5% plus range) all good using strissle spalt hop. If you havn't used these hops please try it red wine/ rasinon comes through. with last addition.
 
Anyone see a problem with using 3724 instead of 3711 thays what I ordered by accident gonna try it either way saturday anytthing to do differant hopeing I won't ruin your great recipe thanks for any input guys
 
the big difference is that 3724 is a finichy yeast where as 3711 will keep on chigging and chugging away. 3724 you have to keep extremely warm 80 degrees at least and still sometimes it stalls out for a week at a time around 1.020. Then with warm temperature it usually picks back up and continues, but many people use champagne yeast to finish the fermentation when 3724 stalls out. That being said...I produced a fantastic Saison last summer using 3724 fermenting in my attic. Probably my best Saison to date! Here's my post for that Saison on my Blog
 
The 3724 will take longer and won't ever get your FG nearly as low as 3711 will. It'll make beer, but it won't be the same beer. Not quite as dry.
 
If I wanted to slightly cut down the ABV on this brew, would it be best to cut out the sugar addition?
 
Hitokiri said:
If I wanted to slightly cut down the ABV on this brew, would it be best to cut out the sugar addition?
Click to expand...

That would probably be the best way to do it with the least impact on flavor. Would be a little less dry, but the other aspects would be the same I think.
 
I did a search on this thread, but couldn't find it..

As far as I know, my LHBS only has pacman wyeast, some others that aren't 3711. They do have a lot of WL yeasts though. Is there an equivalent to 3711 from WL?

If not, I can try to find it at other HBSs somewhat near me.
 
Not really. It's pretty unique as a saison yeast. My LHBS can order any yeast they don't carry. Might ask if they can get it in for ya.
 
Yeah, I'm going to look at the one in Salem. Their parent company (homebrewheaven) has it listed. You did a starter, correct? I'll be trying the extract version with a 3-3.5 gal boil.

This sounds like it'll be pretty damn good, so hopefully I can get it brewed in the next couple weeks while it's still hot out.
 

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