First lager-schedule

So I am going to brew my first beer with a lager yeast (WL820 Oktoberfest)
and I would like to have all your comments suggestions on the schedule/temps i will try to stick to.

-pitch a 2 L starter @69-70 Deg F and let sit for 24 hours.

-Begin to lower temps 7-8 deg a day until I hit 52-53, sit at this temp for at least 3 weeks.

-Bring up to 68-70 degrees for about 5 days (diacetyl rest?)

-Back down 10 deg per day until reaching 35-37 deg and sit for 30 or so days (lagering?)

-Bottle as usual.

I guess my biggest question is, should I just bottle after the diacetyl rest and then lager in the bottle?

All comments and suggestions are welcomed, thanks.

This is how I do this and why:
1. Pitch the yeast, let it rest in room temperature for a day. That will help the yeast start the fermentation process.
2. Cool it down to 50-60F, let it ferment for 3-4 weeks.
3. Bring it back up to a room temp for a day, let it finish the fermentation.
4. Laggering: cool it down us much as possible (without freezing), let it sit for at least couple of weeks for clearing process. You can speed it up by adding gelatin.

Now if you naturally carbonate in bottles, make sure to keep the bottles in a higher temp to do the fermentation again, maybe a week or two. After that bring the temps down again to clear the beer.

Basically, brewing lagers is mostly a balancing act between trying to keep the yeast active and not fall to sleep in cold temps and also trying to keep the beer clear from all the off- flavors the lager yeast makes when it is active. That's why there is so many higher temps periods, to wake up the yeast followed by cold temps to clear the beer of all the possible off-flavors produced by the lager yeast.

Don't pitch warm. Make a bigger starter or a smaller batch.

D-rest should happen while ferment is still active. You're trying to keep your beasties from falling asleep toward the end.

I somewhat get what you all are saying but for me some questions still lingers.

In about a week (three weeks total time in the primary) I will bring my Helles and Bock us to a diacetyl rest temperature after I rack to secondary, rest will take 2-3 days.

After the rest is done I plan to crash both down to 35ish and leave to lager for another 3 weeks.

I then plan to bottle and first condition the bottles at room temp for about a month and then store in the 40deg refer to enjoy as needed.

Does anyone see any glaring problems with this plan?

Well, IMO it's pointless to put your d-rest on a calendar. You want to poke the yeast in the butt to keep them from hibernating before your beer is finished, and you have to catch them before they quit, just as the kraeusen is falling/gravity is nearing terminal.

944play said:

Well, IMO it's pointless to put your d-rest on a calendar. You want to poke the yeast in the butt to keep them from hibernating before your beer is finished, and you have to catch them before they quit, just as the kraeusen is falling/gravity is nearing terminal.

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+1, it does no good to D-rest if your primary fermentation is complete, most fermentations are different, where you are in the process determines when to D-rest, it's not a time thing. Also you may want to wait to transfer to secondary until after the D-rest, depending on how much yeast you still have in suspension (or not in suspension) As everyone has said you still need active yeast to D-rest.

Keep on brewing my friends

Edit: If you want to go by gravity, Palmer says to D-rest when you are at appx. 3/4 of terminal gravity. For instance if you start at 1.1SG and projected end is 1.010, then you should D-rest at 1.0325, Disclaimer: I hate math.

944play said:

Don't pitch warm. Make a bigger starter or a smaller batch.

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yep. If you need to pitch warm to get your yeast going...it means you're not pitching enough yeast.

I'd advise a 1 gallon starter, cold crash and decanted, pitch the slurry straight from the fridge into 45 degree F wort, let it raise up to 50 and hold it there for 3-4 weeks. At that time you can bring it down to 35F and begin lagering.

strat_thru_marshall said:

yep. If you need to pitch warm to get your yeast going...it means you're not pitching enough yeast.

I'd advise a 1 gallon starter, cold crash and decanted, pitch the slurry straight from the fridge into 45 degree F wort, let it raise up to 50 and hold it there for 3-4 weeks. At that time you can bring it down to 35F and begin lagering.

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+1
Don't need no stinkin "D-rest"

GT

strat_thru_marshall said:

yep. If you need to pitch warm to get your yeast going...it means you're not pitching enough yeast.

I'd advise a 1 gallon starter, cold crash and decanted, pitch the slurry straight from the fridge into 45 degree F wort, let it raise up to 50 and hold it there for 3-4 weeks. At that time you can bring it down to 35F and begin lagering.

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This is also true, if you have the yeast pitch it, then there shouldn't be any diacetyl to worry about. I like to secondary for lagering . . . . mainly so I don't feel rushed . . . . the beer probably doesn't care.

Thanks guys, I feel like with my gravity readings that the primary is pretty much done, the Bock more than the Helles. And from what you all are saying I don't think I will do the D-rest (I pitched plenty of good healthy yeast at about 62 deg which is about 9-10 deg warmer than the ferm temps) fermentation went well. I think I will transfer to secondary because I want as much clarity as I can get and then lager for 3-4 weeks at the mid 30's. Thanks for the help and happy brewing. As an aside both samples have tasted really good when checking gravity so no buttery tastes so far.

if you pitched at 62 you will probably need a d-rest. sample before you decide. if you taste buttered popcorn do the rest. you can avoid diacetyl production by pitching cold ~42-47F

IMO you can't just taste for diacetyl and then decide whether or not you want to conduct a d-rest. If the beer isn't done, the diacetyl hasn't yet been absorbed. If the yeast have dropped and you taste butter, there's no saying whether your beasties will come back to life and eat it. Best to either preempt diacetyl production with lots of healthy yeast pitched cool or to preemptively encourage reabsorption by keeping them active through temp increases before they flocc out.

Again, MHO. Lager fermentations have to be thermally profiled for best results.

strat_thru_marshall said:

if you pitched at 62 you will probably need a d-rest. sample before you decide. if you taste buttered popcorn do the rest. you can avoid diacetyl production by pitching cold ~42-47F

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Agreed. If you pitched at 62, you probably need to do a diacetyl rest. If you pitched a ginormous starter at 48, you probably don't.

You can't "schedule" a diacetyl rest. When it's 75% of the way to FG, it's time to do the diacetyl rest. Whether that's 4 days or 14 days, only your hydrometer knows for sure.

skidkid267 said:

Thanks guys, I feel like with my gravity readings that the primary is pretty much done, the Bock more than the Helles. And from what you all are saying I don't think I will do the D-rest (I pitched plenty of good healthy yeast at about 62 deg which is about 9-10 deg warmer than the ferm temps) fermentation went well. I think I will transfer to secondary because I want as much clarity as I can get and then lager for 3-4 weeks at the mid 30's. Thanks for the help and happy brewing. As an aside both samples have tasted really good when checking gravity so no buttery tastes so far.

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Also, what schedule are you following for the 3-4 week lagering? That's WAY too short, probably.

If you want to lager the beer, a good rule of thumb is a week for each 8-10 points of gravity. So, for a 1.064 OG beer, you want to lager for 8 weeks. Three weeks is way too short for any lager that I can think of. I like to lager at 34 degrees, for a bit longer, for smoother flavor.

Got Trub? said:

+1
Don't need no stinkin "D-rest"

GT

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So to make sure I have all my ducks in a row, you are saying that with a big enough starter a "D-rest" should not be necessary and could I get away with a 2 liter starter?

KevinW said:

So to make sure I have all my ducks in a row, you are saying that with a big enough starter a "D-rest" should not be necessary and could I get away with a 2 liter starter?

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2L wont be large enough. Use this:

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html