cooling wort with car cabin heater radiator

Hello to you all. First time brewer here.

I have a little experiment

Instead of using Cooper pipe I thought using small car cabin heater. Mine is old and dirty but it is just to prove the theory.

Dimensions are 17x17.2.5 cm with two 16mm connections

Surface area is exactly the same as surface of copper pipe 8m long 14mm in diameter.

Water: 10L at 100C
Water was running medium speed through cooler/radiator

Temperature of water 20C

From 100 to 20C in 13min

You have diagram in pictures.


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...572.1073741830.1259122154&type=1&l=fabf4a8b5c

EDIT

This is and old car cooler only for this test. There is a new one from the box waiting for your opinions.


There are models twice in size that I believe could cold much more wort in same time.

There is also option for placing one like this in bucket of ice before the main in the wort.

Thoughts?

Sorry bro/girl but it would be so unsanitary and likely containing lead or something else not foodgrade that I would spend the hundo on a plate chiller and never look back.... Sorry for bashing the idea but your not the first on the forum to ask... Happy brewing dude/dudette...!!!

Here's a similar thread you can check out. But as already said, it's probably not a good idea.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=419162

Run. Run away from this idea quickly. Lead = dead (or at least very sick).

food grade only!!

No.

Definitely, no.

Cheers!

I am the dude. What led people. It's made purely of copper welded with zinc-silver. You really believe stories tha lead can melt in 100C or less. Seriously? This is copper and it's working good for me. Plate chiller is way to expensive. Thank you for opinion.

Oseloth,

There is a reason that the developed world has gotten away from lead water pipes. Even cold water can pick up traces and it doesn't take much to give you lead poisoning.

The Heat Exchanger may be made from copper but it was probably soldered together with lead based solder since it is not required to carry potable water.

The other concern is that if you are using a refurbished Heat Ex, it is probably impregnated with ethylene glycol which is very poisonous.

If you're dead set on using it, use it to chill the water/glycol that you use in an Immersion/Counter Flow/Plate chiller. Just make sure to test for leaks periodically.

It's made purely of copper welded with zinc-silver.

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zinc can be a problem, but I am sure you know that already

all the best

S_M

brew_ny said:

zinc can be a problem, but I am sure you know that already

all the best

S_M

Click to expand...

Don't go ruining an argument with sense and logic

I'm all for being cheap and saving money but there are too many variables in using something like that. Just because food grade components might be used doesn't make the end result food grade. Companies are not gonna take the time and effort to spend extra money on stuff like that.

As stated, you must be 100% certain that there is no lead in the system. I doubt a car manufacturer is going to use an expensive silver solder to make radiators when a lead-based solder will do the job just fine.

It's been said that Caligula drank his wine from lead cups, as it lends a sweeter flavor. Don't be Caligula.

Oseloth said:

You really believe stories tha lead can melt in 100C or less. Seriously?

Click to expand...

Melting of the lead is not the concern here, it is leaching of lead and/or other unsafe materials from the hex into your beer. You obviously don't know what you're doing; stop now.

Besides, Home Depot is having a fire sale on copper tubing; the cost of using a known safe material is much lower than usual, take advantage.

Don't get discouraged by the naysayers.

All I will say is do your research. I saw that somebody posted a link to a thread I started a while back where I converted an automotive radiator.
The unit I used is brand new and 100% aluminum. No lead or other solders are used.
I know this because my company supplies the aluminum for these units and I talked with the engineers who design them about the materials and assembly process. I don't use it for every batch, it is kind of a pain to clean.

But, by all means, if you have any doubt and can afford the $60+ for a copper chiller, go for it. Mine was free.

The odds of the OP having the same insider intel that you had on your unit is slim to none.

In a hobby where we value spending extra time in our lives for a creative and superior product, I just don't understand the wish to take a risky shortcut like this without the proper information.

Starrider said:

Don't get discouraged by the naysayers.

All I will say is do your research. I saw that somebody posted a link to a thread I started a while back where I converted an automotive radiator.
The unit I used is brand new and 100% aluminum. No lead or other solders are used.
I know this because my company supplies the aluminum for these units and I talked with the engineers who design them about the materials and assembly process. I don't use it for every batch, it is kind of a pain to clean.

But, by all means, if you have any doubt and can afford the $60+ for a copper chiller, go for it. Mine was free.

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Honestly? If $60 is your tipping point for "eh, it might poison me and all my friends" then you need to examine your focus.

Your post illustrates why I get all queasy when people at work,suggest a pot luck dinner. There are folks out there like you who think it's perfectly ok to save a few bucks and take shortcuts that put others at risk.

Bobby and thadas, I agree with both of you. That's why I suggested he do his research.
With risk sometimes comes reward. Right now, this idea is pretty well frowned upon due to the uncertainties,but I expect that at some point someone will identify or make a unit that is approved or specifically made for this purpose. I would like to think of it as an innovation that just hasn't realized it's time yet.

I love how these posts pop up from time to time, like the plastic Home Bucket electric brew 'kettle' from last year.

OP: "Hey, here's a crazy idea that'll save me some money - what do you think"
Majority of the Forum: "You're going to kill yourself over saving $50, don't do it"
OP: "Well I've already done one batch and I'm not dead, so who needs your opinion"

In my opinion, you have 2 REASONABLE options.
1 - Do the level of research that Starrider did and confirm that it is in fact safe
2 - Stop using it, spend a few bucks to get SOMETHING that is at least confirmed safe, and thank us when you're 90

-Kevin

Zinc is actaly very good for man body and sperm production. I know what is lead and soldering but amine cooler is cold weld. For you who do not know what that is, that means that material ia welded by it self with strong electric curent. I also found one aluminium new. Also cold welded.

And as I stated in the beginning this is experiment.

Zinc is actaly very good for man body and sperm production.

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zinc is "actually" good in trace amounts higher amounts it becomes toxic

Soldered/brazed connections are evident in your pictures. Your argument about the "benefits" of using zinc as a brewing material is entertaining, but deeply flawed (as previous poster indicated).

But you're an expert, so what do we know. Why did you post here, again?

As I said this is experiment. An idea. Not a whole thing. This cooler in picture was only for test. It ia an old cooler from an old car. I have a brand new one from aluminium that is welded only with cold weld. Metal to metal
I will post the picture of that one. My posting here was to hear other people opinions. And as I can see they are all negative aince you haven't read the post completely.

Your original post only says that you will be getting a new radiator, not a new radiator made only out of aluminum. People are giving you flak because lead and zinc are dangerous materials in the brewing process. Even copper has places in the process it's not to be used in.

We can't just let dangerous information be distributed to the general public without stating the facts and possible dangers. It would be, uh, dangerous.

I certainly applaud your drive to find more cost effective ways to make better beer. It's apparent from your grammar that you not native to North American, so I assume the cost of a standard type of chiller is maybe fairly high? Many people use a simple coil of copper, which is maybe the least expensive common style. I can't hardly imagine that a brand new aluminum radiator is less expensive than a coil of small diameter copper, though. A standard Immersion Chiller has a lot of advantages for people starting out who don't have a lot of money.

Oseloth said:

It's made purely of copper welded with zinc-silver.

Click to expand...

I did read what you posted and that is where I got the zinc from

all the best

S_M

I would have more concerns about the antifreeze residue, and other trace contaminants deposited inside a used unit from when it was in the vehicle.

A new, out-of-the box heat exchanger that was constructed from materials known not to cause health concerns would seem to be a workable solution.

There are a lot of good safe designs already out there, though.

The whole "toxic-metals-in-my-beer" debate tends to get way oversimplified on this forum IMO.

Toxicity is not just an "It-Is" or "It Ain't" issue.

Concentration, dose, and duration of exposure are just a couple of the variables that determines toxicity.

There ya go. All things in moderation, including toxic substances...

Cheers!

Yeap I am from Europe, croatia.

Actually the ide was born not so much because money. More because I saw that car cooler have way more surface area than 20ft copper tubing. Than I realized that only cabin heater have more surface and it's size is so small. That is the mail reason. And yes the cooler cost about 12$ and pipe 9m long is about 40$

I appreciate your thoughts. I will go throughly over new cooler to see if there is any residual weld that I could overlook. I will also try aluminum test.

Oseloth said:

As I said this is experiment. An idea. Not a whole thing. This cooler in picture was only for test. It ia an old cooler from an old car. I have a brand new one from aluminium that is welded only with cold weld. Metal to metalI will post the picture of that one. My posting here was to hear other people opinions. And as I can see they are all negative aince you haven't read the post completely.

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Lead and zinc are metals...so your theory is flawed. Just because you can see the weld does not mean it does not contain hazardous materials.

Even if you have a new one, you do not know the manufacturing procedure that was used to make and test this unit. Manufacturing of a plain steel item can include many of chemicals that may not be removed and may not re removed until you run some beer making fluids through it.

Like others have said, I wouldn't touch this when it comes to making a food or fluid that goes into my body. I'd rather spend more for something that is known safe for humans.

A $31 price difference really isn't that much. If it is right now, use an ice bath to cool your wort. Plenty of people do. It's not the fastest, but it works and is safe.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I do need to ask this since it is relevant: Obviously lead is a bad thing, but I've seen more than one build here that uses lead soldered copper tubing for either wort chiller or plumbing from one tank to another. Now, granted we are not talking the same surface area between a car radiator (or heater core) to a section of 50' 1/2" copper tubing that has only 2 fittings soldered on each end. So- How much lead is considered bad? I would stick to compression fittings and silicone tubing if I had my way.

rxpx40 said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I do need to ask this since it is relevant: Obviously lead is a bad thing, but I've seen more than one build here that uses lead soldered copper tubing for either wort chiller or plumbing from one tank to another. Now, granted we are not talking the same surface area between a car radiator (or heater core) to a section of 50' 1/2" copper tubing that has only 2 fittings soldered on each end. So- How much lead is considered bad? I would stick to compression fittings and silicone tubing if I had my way.

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I'd say I'd disapprove of using lead solder on plumbing almost as much as the cabin heater monstrosity. I only ever use lead-free plumbing solder. I don't know why anyone would use anything else.

Plumbing solder is lead free. Never use solder intended for electronics for this.

rxpx40 said:

I've seen more than one build here that uses lead soldered copper tubing for either wort chiller or plumbing from one tank to another.

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You have? Where? Are you sure you're looking at lead solder and not just standard (lead-free) plumbing solder? I would be very surprised if many people were making this very basic mistake.

Oh, my mistake. I assumed plumbing solder had lead in it. Learning new stuff here everyday! Thanks!

rxpx40 said:

Oh, my mistake. I assumed plumbing solder had lead in it. Learning new stuff here everyday! Thanks!

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The safe drinking water act of 1974 was supposed to have removed lead from any new products being used. Not saying some Jim tom isn't using whatever they find in a ditch but most people with half a brain ain't trying to poison them self. The dangers of lead hasn't been a hidden secret.