Propane, Single tier, direct fired RIMS build

I know there are many like it, but this one is mine.

2" mild steel stand with locking casters based on n2fooz design, here is his awesome thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-single-tier-build-289260/

High temperature engine primer and paint (painted outside at 40F = bad idea)

3x BG-14 high pressure burners from Bayou

6"x24" 16 gauge heat shield

Camlocks, silicone hose, weldless bulkhead, 2-piece stainless ball valves, sightglasses with thermometers all from Bobby M here,

Including his new, hot, full keggle diameter false bottom here

Chugger pump with stainless head

18" Flexible propane hoses from Kurt (onehoppyguy) at Brewsteel

The guys at Visilift for their welding assistance and allowing me to use the shop.

And countless other threads on here, thanks a bunch for being so damn helpful.

And now some beer pron

Nice build. Where's your RIMS tube?

microbusbrewery said:

Nice build. Where's your RIMS tube?

Click to expand...

No RIMS tube. The mash is recirculated with the pump while low heat is applied from the burner underneath.

Have you noticed issues with hot exhaust gas not being able to vent because of the kegs skirt on steel the whole way around? I sketched up a similar top, but I think I'm going to get rid of the 45° corner pieces to allow better venting.

Also, got any pics of the casters and mounts for them?

mthompson said:

Have you noticed issues with hot exhaust gas not being able to vent because of the kegs skirt on steel the whole way around? I sketched up a similar top, but I think I'm going to get rid of the 45° corner pieces to allow better venting.

Also, got any pics of the casters and mounts for them?

Click to expand...

You might be able to notice on one of the pictures that the heat shield does not wrap the full circumference of the burner. That provides a little venting, and so far, I have not had any issues. I mounted the heat shield to those 45 deg corner pieces, so I needed them there.

Many other stands have little raised bits for the kegs, which I may still add, but so far so good.

I welded a 2"x2" square bit of steel into the bottom corner and drilled a 1/4" hole through it. The caster has a 3" bolt that goes through the hole, with a nut on the bottom and another on the top for leveling. I will post a picture of the mount this afternoon.

mthompson said:

Have you noticed issues with hot exhaust gas not being able to vent because of the kegs skirt on steel the whole way around? I sketched up a similar top, but I think I'm going to get rid of the 45° corner pieces to allow better venting.

Also, got any pics of the casters and mounts for them?

Click to expand...

he may have been wondering due to things like this http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=44238 happening with enclosed lips

i quoted the wrong person there...oh well.

oldstyle69 said:

he may have been wondering due to things like this http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=44238 happening with enclosed lips

Click to expand...

Yep I've seen that. I drilled holes into the keg skirt to guard against it. But the reason I do not use a full circumference heat shield is for venting gas. The other option is to attach small risers or spacers to the frame to lift the keg and create a space.

mthompson said:

Have you noticed issues with hot exhaust gas not being able to vent because of the kegs skirt on steel the whole way around? I sketched up a similar top, but I think I'm going to get rid of the 45° corner pieces to allow better venting.

Also, got any pics of the casters and mounts for them?

Click to expand...

Ok, I take it back, I do need spacers. I thought the holes in the skirt were sufficient but testing last night revealed a huge difference in flame intensity with the keg lifted 1/2" off the stand, in addition to the skirt vents.

ColoHox said:

Ok, I take it back, I do need spacers. I thought the holes in the skirt were sufficient but testing last night revealed a huge difference in flame intensity with the keg lifted 1/2" off the stand, in addition to the skirt vents.

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uh, ambiguous!! was heating faster/slower with the risers? :cross:

ColoHox said:

Ok, I take it back, I do need spacers. I thought the holes in the skirt were sufficient but testing last night revealed a huge difference in flame intensity with the keg lifted 1/2" off the stand, in addition to the skirt vents.

Click to expand...

Ok, this was one thing that came up in my build thread. I'm still designing and doing prep work, so it's good to know I need to change my design.

I wonder if removing the 45° pieces would be enough to allow gasses out in the corners. (I know you are passed this point). I received a pm from hbt member purplehaze with his modification, bent 3/8" rods welded on his stand.

I'm sure he'd also send them to you.

Keep us updated on what you do.

MT

mthompson said:

I wonder if removing the 45° pieces would be enough to all gasses out in the corners.

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How are you going to position a heat shield? Even if I removed the 45s, my heatshield sits flush with the top of my stand. Any lower and venting would still be blocked by the stand tubing.

I need to find 1/2" barstock or something to set my kegs on.

ColoHox said:

How are you going to position a heat shield? Even if I removed the 45s, my heatshield sits flush with the top of my stand. Any lower and venting would still be blocked by the stand tubing.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure yet how I'm doing mine. But the distance between the 45° across the center is the same distance as between the main supports. I was thinking I'd use corny keg sections 4" high, with a slit from top to bottom. This would allow me to expand it open/out to the edge of the main supports. I was thinking of welding them in 1" down from the top. This would leave a gap for gasses to go over the shields and vent out the open corners.

Like I said, still in the planning stages...but I'll be fabricating soon, so I need to figure the best configuration out.

here's what purplehaze did for his stand:

Here's what I was trying to describe, except not the splitting and stretching of the windscreen to the edges (working on that):






****I'll stop mucking up your build thread with picture pollution.

What are your temperature gradients in the direct-fired mash tun? I'd imagine you have a 10-15F gradient from the bottom of your grain bed to the top, and probably even have a gradient along the mash tun's circumference.

mthompson said:

Here's what I was trying to describe, except not the splitting and stretching of the windscreen to the edges (working on that):

****I'll stop mucking up your build thread with picture pollution.

Click to expand...

I like the layout of your stand, and pictures are great. I forsee the same ventilation issues with that setup, as the heat/gas wants to vent up and not out to the side.

novahokie09 said:

What are your temperature gradients in the direct-fired mash tun? I'd imagine you have a 10-15F gradient from the bottom of your grain bed to the top, and probably even have a gradient along the mash tun's circumference.

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I recurculate my mash (the R in a rims system) so the temperature is very consistent. Also, the full diameter false bottom prevents cold spots on the edges and a sparge arm that distributes the recirculation evenly over the top of the mash is important.

novahokie09 said:

What are your temperature gradients in the direct-fired mash tun? I'd imagine you have a 10-15F gradient from the bottom of your grain bed to the top, and probably even have a gradient along the mash tun's circumference.

Click to expand...

I have a similar setup (2-tier direct fire MLT with one pump) and as long as I stir really well when doughing-in, insulate the MLT and let it equalize, I usually don't see anywhere near a 10-15 degree temperature difference from the bottom to the top of the grain bed. I think the key is to get rid of all of the temperature gradients initially by stirring well and letting it equalize. Then when heating to maintain temperature, use short bursts of heat while recirculating. I normally recirculate for the whole mash and add heat when needed to maintain temperature and the grain bed for the most part is fairly stable.

ColoHox said:

I like the layout of your stand, and pictures are great. I forsee the same ventilation issues with that setup, as the heat/gas wants to vent up and not out to the side.

Click to expand...

I think you are correct. I will probably add 3/8 rods like purplehaze... I'm thinking in each corner of the burner square.

MT

mthompson said:

I think you are correct. I will probably add 3/8 rods like purplehaze... I'm thinking in each corner of the burner square.

MT

Click to expand...

In the n2fooz build that I linked, he used small pieces of barstock. I think that looks a little cleaner and more uniform, but I am ocd about crap like that. And sorry I'll get those castor mount pics up.

After two brews this weekend, I have a small update:

Saturday brew was a german rye. We (chuchogallego and I ) started at 9am and 40 degrees, we were able to get strike water from 50 degrees to 165 in about an hour. Mashed with 2qt/lb, could not vorlauf, and overshot the mash temp by 10 degrees for 30 min, then undershot the correction for about 30 min. Apparently there was something fermentable in the wort because good 'ole California Ale blew the bung out.

Second brew was a dubbel. We doughed in with 163 degree water, dropped to 152 and held for a bit. 1/8 - 1/4 speed pump and a better recirculation arm set the grain bed and we had clear wort in minutes. Recirculated with low heat nearly the whole mash. Got from 170 degree mashout to boiling in 10 minutes. Abbey Ale is slowly chugging away at 65 degrees.

It will take a few more batches to dial everything in, but the difference between the first and second was huge. I learned that I should relax and turn the propane down and slow the pump speed. I was too excited, and as Jeremy Clarkson would say, so much powaaahh.

Colohox, each rig is different but you should be able to bring your strike water up to temp faster than an hour with that burner. Check your burner height, it may be too far away from the bottom of your keggle.

There is a thread dedicated to just this subject and they used a 2" height with that burner for best results.

purplehaze said:

Colohox, each rig is different but you should be able to bring your strike water up to temp faster than an hour with that burner. Check your burner height, it may be too far away from the bottom of your keggle.

There is a thread dedicated to just this subject and they used a 2" height with that burner for best results.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips. I have seen loads of threads and the range is 2" to 6". So, I have added some additional mounting holes to my stand to adjust the burner height. I will move the HLT and BK burners from 4" to 2" away for my batch this weekend and test it out (when it will also be ~40 degrees).

Once you get this rig dialed in and you want to reduce your time and propane usage you can use an insulated pot shroud. The shroud directs the hot exhaust gasses up the sides of the pot instead of letting them blow away on the wind.

Its kind of weird at first because it initially boils the wort from the sides instead of from the bottom up.

purplehaze said:

an insulated pot shroud.

Click to expand...

What is this? Do you have a picture? I wrap my MLT with reflectix during my mash. Unless this shroud is metal, I am concerned with melting the insulation to my kettles.

Colohox, sent you a PM so as not to hijack your build thread. Eventually I will post a dyi.

Your build looks great keep posting pics of your progress.

Raised my HLT and BK burners from 4" away to 2" away from the kettles. The time required to heat strike water from 50F to 168F was reduced by half...only 30min. Mash to boil was ~8 min.

Thanks purplehaze for the tip, what a huge difference! Also, I paid attention to all that heat escaping around the sides, that needs to be harvested! Price/batch would go down quite a bit if I could use my propane more efficiently.

Any chance you have a materials/cut list for this? I got an unexpected bonus at work and now have a bad brew stand rash I'd lie to scratch.

Daddo07 said:

Any chance you have a materials/cut list for this? I got an unexpected bonus at work and now have a bad brew stand rash I'd lie to scratch.

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My stand is based on the stand n2fooz built. I linked his build in the OP.

Sorry, missed that before. Any rough estimate on the weight? This is pretty much what I want to build but don't have the garage real estate to store it horizontally. Would you consider it possible if not practical to store vertically?

Daddo07 said:

Sorry, missed that before. Any rough estimate on the weight? This is pretty much what I want to build but don't have the garage real estate to store it horizontally. Would you consider it possible if not practical to store vertically?

Click to expand...

The stand by itself is not heavy, maybe 80lbs, with 3 kegs full of water it is very heavy. I store it horizontal with the kegs sitting in their spots.

You would still have to stack the kegs (sounds risky) or something to store it vertically which would make the whole thing take up only slightly less space.

There are some vertically oriented stands. Although, I like to be able to see and reach into my pots if necessary.

Let me know if you have other questions, all this is still pretty fresh in my head.

My stand is done except for painting and putting the diamond plate on it, but I think it's about 200+ lbs with the burners. I ended up buying a furniture dolly for it. There are casters, too, but I stand it on end for storage and I couldn't move it without a hand truck. Now I stand it up on the dolly so I can move it into the corner of the garage.

What did you do for paint? I think I'm going to flip-flop (again) and paint it here with high-temp spray. It would be over $200 for high-temp industrial coating at a shop.

Wow, thats pretty hefty.

I thought about powder coating, but even a using some friends for a discount was still about ~$100. I opted for high-temp auto spray paint instead. I found some stuff that was good up to ~500 degress. It was still a little spendy to prime and paint the whole stand, but worth it. My problem was trying to paint the stand this winter, that high temp paint has to cure at pretty warm temps. I got good coverage, but it is not a uniform color in some places.

I used 2" square mild steel at 1/8" thickness. Complete overkill. Shouldn't have been blinded by the "me too" part of it. The BG14's are surprisingly heavy burners, and I use 3. On the plus side is not having to worry about it tipping over when it's loaded up.

I got some 2000 degree stuff for the valve heat shields. Three-step cure with the highest at 650. Oven only goes to 550 so I called that good enough and left them in longer. Trying to find high temp paint for the frame that doesn't require curing. Think Rustoleum has some 1000-1200 degree stuff like that.

You do yours in black?