stupid newbie question

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poopyhead

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this is probably a stupid question but... when someone just says 2 row in a recipe are they refering to 2 row pale, 2 row pilsner, or something else?
 
if it is an Ale, then 2 row pale... if it is a Lager, then 2 row Pilsner

Not a dumb question at all.
 
i guess i really just dont understand why people dont specify that in their recipe.. doesnt make much sense to me if they are going to lay out a specific recipe and leave that 2 row as an uncertainty...
 
I have always understood it to be American pale malt, if a recipe calls for Pilsner malt is specifies Pilsner, or Maris Otter, or Munich, but if it calls for 2-row I assume it is American 2-row pale malt.
 
I have always understood it to be American pale malt, if a recipe calls for Pilsner malt is specifies Pilsner, or Maris Otter, or Munich, but if it calls for 2-row I assume it is American 2-row pale malt.

Yep. If it's an English recipe, I assume it's an English two-row. If it's an American recipe, I assume it's American two-row.

Pale malt is generally thought of as "base malt" and equal to "two-row". If a specialty malt is required, it will say in the recipe, "5 pounds Vienna malt" etc.
 
i guess i really just dont understand why people dont specify that in their recipe.. doesnt make much sense to me if they are going to lay out a specific recipe and leave that 2 row as an uncertainty...

What do you mean? You want all the recipes to cleary say "2 row( not pilsner?)" Why?

Like Pearson say's

It's an assumption that people will know that 2-row = pale, not pilsner.

I've never had an issue with not knowing, nor have I ever came upon a recipe that didn't specify if it WAS pilsner. I think the problem is not that there's a problem, it's just that in your inexperience you haven't got to the point where you don't just make that assumption, like those of us who answered you do.
 
2-row pale takes .2 more seconds to type thats all im saying. obviously now i know what they mean, but for noobs like me, the first time i just see just "2-row," it would be stupid to assume anything.
 
2-row pale takes .2 more seconds to type thats all im saying. obviously now i know what they mean, but for noobs like me, the first time i just see just "2-row," it would be stupid to assume anything.

So you're saying we have to change years and years of brewing culture and recipe posting just to suit you since those of us who've been brewing have never really had an issue with assuming, or understanding this? In years on here, you're the only person that's brought this up. So how is it an epidemic? Seems to me you have the problem, not us. So we have to change to cater to you? :confused:

Did I miss the memo, did you get elected center of the brewing univers????;)
 
I think what he's trying to say is,those of you that've been on here for years & gone AG know what you're talking about. The newbies don't. But some study (reading,videos) would show what some of these terms are. Just to show the flip side.
 
this is probably a stupid question but... when someone just says 2 row in a recipe are they refering to 2 row pale, 2 row pilsner, or something else?

I was a high school history teacher for over 20 years. I always told the kids that there was no such thing as a "stupid question". Only STUPID answers, and I don't think you'll get any here from what I've seen so far. :tank:
 
So, perhaps a list of terms would be beneficial??? I might start a thread on that and see if it can get stickied...

You mean we don't already have a few? I know we have handy acronyms, but I swear there's a few beginner terms as well...like a glossery thread. I'll look. But I'd be surprised if it doesn't already exist.
 
I think what he's trying to say is,those of you that've been on here for years & gone AG know what you're talking about. The newbies don't. But some study (reading,videos) would show what some of these terms are. Just to show the flip side.

Well, I don't recall when I was a newb ever not getting the distinction that 2-row in a recipe was 2-row, and that pilsner in a recipe wasn't pilsner.
 
@Revvy
I was just looking. I knew we had some acronyms but I don't see a list of applicable terms with definitions. I try to use the search function or Google to my advantage before asking my question, but there have beena few times that the answer wasn't easily found.

I do think that we're now spending entirely too much time on this thread.
 
@Revvy
I was just looking. I knew we had some acronyms but I don't see a list of applicable terms with definitions. I try to use the search function or Google to my advantage before asking my question, but there have beena few times that the answer wasn't easily found.

I do think that we're now spending entirely too much time on this thread.

Yeah, if there's not one there should be....
 
So, perhaps a list of terms would be beneficial??? I might start a thread on that and see if it can get stickied...

I think that would be a GREAT idea. Often I google a term and get a list of threads using the term but not a good definition of what it means w/out a lot of reading, which can't hurt, but takes time when all one wants it the definition so one can get back to the original thread.

But it sounds like a LOT of work to produce the list of terms.
 
So you're saying we have to change years and years of brewing culture and recipe posting just to suit you since those of us who've been brewing have never really had an issue with assuming, or understanding this? In years on here, you're the only person that's brought this up. So how is it an epidemic? Seems to me you have the problem, not us. So we have to change to cater to you? :confused:

Did I miss the memo, did you get elected center of the brewing univers????;)

yea thats what im saying
 
I did a quick Google search on '2 row' and the first three results referenced 2 row pale.

Not one reference to 2 row pilsner...
 
just because the search returns sites that say "2 row pale" doesnt necessarily imply that 2 row always implies that it is pale. thats like going into google and typing movie and the first three results say batman. that doesnt mean you can assume that everytime someone says movie they are implying batman. all im saying is that i asked this because i didnt want to assume anything.

also, this happens to be the second link on a "2 row malt" search

http://nfbl.org/nfbl/educational/MaltInfo.pdf

apparently pilsner malt is a type of pale malt according to this resource. little confusing to a noob.
 
Pilsner is a pale malt, there are several different pale malts, one would be referred to as "Pilsner", another known as "Maris Otter", there are several others, but among them is one simply referred to as "2-row".

I really think you are over-analyzing this, I have never seen a recipe with pilsner malt that was called anything other than pilsner malt, nor have I seen a recipe using Maris Otter that called it anything other than Maris Otter.

Today I went into my LHBS for some things, I asked for a sack of 2-row, they did not ask if I wanted pilsner, or Maris Otter, they brought me a 50lb sack of American 2-row, because it is understood what 2-row is, if I wanted pils or MO I would have asked for it.

The vernacular will come in time, just like it did for myself and many other brewers. you just need to pick it up, and try not to read too much into it, or else you might end up asking "why the heck is it 'vorlauf' and not simply 'drain the first runnings into a pitcher until the wort runs clear'?
 
Well, as a Noob myself - and this is the first thread I've read, it appears that there are stupid questions according to the responders. I'm thinking twice about asking newbie questions. On top of no clear and reasonable 'teaching' answer, there's even the burden'd "since i've never had that problem, there is no problem" mentality. Geeez. Don't hurt yourself climbing down from your brewing pedistal to swish away us new guys. We'd rather you didn't waste your (actually 'Our) time. As a new guy, i read the question and new exactly what was asked and why he asked it. It made sense........it just needed a thought out answer. So much for that.
 
Pilsner is a pale malt, there are several different pale malts, one would be referred to as "Pilsner", another known as "Maris Otter", there are several others, but among them is one simply referred to as "2-row".

I really think you are over-analyzing this, I have never seen a recipe with pilsner malt that was called anything other than pilsner malt, nor have I seen a recipe using Maris Otter that called it anything other than Maris Otter.

Today I went into my LHBS for some things, I asked for a sack of 2-row, they did not ask if I wanted pilsner, or Maris Otter, they brought me a 50lb sack of American 2-row, because it is understood what 2-row is, if I wanted pils or MO I would have asked for it.

The vernacular will come in time, just like it did for myself and many other brewers. you just need to pick it up, and try not to read too much into it, or else you might end up asking "why the heck is it 'vorlauf' and not simply 'drain the first runnings into a pitcher until the wort runs clear'?

+1 Yes they're all version of 2-row malt, because there are 2-rows on each stalk....BUT there are 3-common variations of it, and when folks talk about it, write recipes about it, and request it, they go by the type it is...Except for pale which we simply call 2-row because it's the most common, unless their in England where they might reffer to it as pale, but about 99% of the brewing culture, especially in AMerica refers to the 3 malts-

2row
pilsner
Marris otter.

It's like limes....there are at least 2 common types, the plain old garden variety lime the we call "limes" and then there's "Key Limes."

Usually cooks know the difference, so when they go into a store they're either gonna ask where the limes are, or if they have "key limes" and folks are going to know. If I walk in requesting limes, the shop owner isn't going to ask if I want "key" or "regular" they're just gonna give me the big green ones...and if I request key limes, they're not going to ask me to clarify if I want small ugly things to make pie or big ones to make whatever the hell you use real limes for....

Just because YOU can't grasp something, doesn't mean the culture's wrong...This is the fault of the culture of entitlement....Instead of acknowledging that I might not know something, and maybe being willing to learn, it's the worlds fault for not conforming to my ignorance?!?

There's nothing wrong not knowing something, but that's not what you're doing, you're not saying "hey what's the difference?" We would be glad to clear it up, and I think we've all done that. INSTEAD you're saying everything is wrong, and presented wrong, because you don't understanding. You're blaming the knowledge because it's not more understandable to you.

Sorry but in the big boy world, we have to learn new things, and if we don't grasp the concept it's not the ideas fault because we don't get it, it's our fault for not trying a little harder.
 
Hammer24 said:
Well, as a Noob myself - and this is the first thread I've read, it appears that there are stupid questions according to the responders. I'm thinking twice about asking newbie questions. On top of no clear and reasonable 'teaching' answer, there's even the burden'd "since i've never had that problem, there is no problem" mentality. Geeez. Don't hurt yourself climbing down from your brewing pedistal to swish away us new guys. We'd rather you didn't waste your (actually 'Our) time. As a new guy, i read the question and new exactly what was asked and why he asked it. It made sense........it just needed a thought out answer. So much for that.

I think you're taking some of the comments the wrong way. Don't be turned off of these forums based upon one quick judgement. This is the friendliest, most helpful forum I've ever encountered regardless of topic. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by judging it based on one thread.

As to the OP's question. I think it can be difficult for the more experiences brewers to remember back to true n00bdom. I think the OP has probably been reading about the very basics of what malt is and is thinking in terms of 2-row vs 6-row rather than '2-row' as a malt variety, which is really just short hand for 2-row American brewers (or pale or base) malt.
The Wiki section of the site has been helpful to me in the past in answering questions like this. There is an excellent rundown of specific malt varieties in there somewhere.
 
With the attitude and lack of initiative you've displayed so far you'll definitely get more sarcasm than info. Try googling "malt profiles" or something of that nature and then READ about it. I've learned a ton on this forum over the last 4 years but I've also learned a tremendous amount by reading and researching on my own. Educate yourself by all means possible.
 
I think you're taking some of the comments the wrong way. Don't be turned off of these forums based upon one quick judgement. This is the friendliest, most helpful forum I've ever encountered regardless of topic. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by judging it based on one thread.

As to the OP's question. I think it can be difficult for the more experiences brewers to remember back to true n00bdom. I think the OP has probably been reading about the very basics of what malt is and is thinking in terms of 2-row vs 6-row rather than '2-row' as a malt variety, which is really just short hand for 2-row American brewers (or pale or base) malt.
The Wiki section of the site has been helpful to me in the past in answering questions like this. There is an excellent rundown of specific malt varieties in there somewhere.

Although this is mostly true, I had a very similar event happen to me when I first started frquenting the HBT forums. I was trying to make my personal site that helps people get into brewing in my local area. I asked for contructive input and criticism on the HBT forums and was blasted by a bunch of people commenting on there being no need for another site when this one is a one-stop-shop for all things homebrewing. I mean, how dare I make a new site and ask for input here when I only had a meager 10 or 12 posts on the HBT forums... I was pretty P-Oed when I read those responses.

The point? There are stickies and resources where n00bs can go to read about those things and that's where they should be directed to go. The more senior members should simply post the link to the thread where those resources are and leave it at that... Making n00bs feel unwanted or stupid does not help build the HBT and homebrew community.

The counter point? The n00b and others should try to refrain form blasting back and starting a 3 page back-and-forth that takes away from the main focus of the thread...
 
yea im done using this site

i ask a simple question and then i follow up with another question just wondering why people say 2 row instead of 2 row pale (the second or third response confused me as well), and i get blasted because people think im trying to "change years of brew culture " and "i got elected to the center of the brewing universe." when in reality all i was asking was why do people just not specify pale specifically. a simple "thats just what people normally call pale" would have sufficed, instead people choose to start a worthless waste of time argument about absolutely nothing.
 
I don't honestly know why people don't say pale, but they don't. It's just part of the nomenclature. If you feel insulted, then I can't blame you for not wanting to participate on the board. However, I have to say (again) that you shouldn't give up on HBT because of one lousy thread. I think that there have been misunderstandings as to intent going both ways in this thread. I was a home brewer for 7 years before I joined HBT, and I can say that my membership here has turned a passive hobby into an obsession. I say give folks here the benefit of the doubt. You only stand to find out how great and helpful they can be (and are). Hell, Revvy can berate me all day long and I'll still be grateful to him for his bottling tips! Plus, it's a home brewing forum. So you never know when someone's drunk posting :p
 
yea im done using this site.

Plus, it's a home brewing forum. So you never know when someone's drunk posting :p

+1^, Hang around this site long enough and you'll grow a little thicker skin. There are 70,000 registered members, you're bound to get answers from someone who's having a bad day, had too much to drink, just an a$$hole, or any combination thereof. Also since you can't hear the intonation of someones voice, you can't really tell if they're just teasing you or serious. Read through the thread again, you got some good answers and a couple smartass comments. But the majority of responses were from people who wanted to help. So, it wasn't necessarily what you wanted to hear, but the reality of the situation is that you're not likely to get the change you're seeking. Live with it and move on.

Revvy rattled your cage a little, so what. Take a look at the vast majority of his responses in any thread (including this one), and you'll find a wealth of VERY informative posts. He probably spends more time helping in the beginner thread than any other advanced brewer.

You can leave this site if you want, but you won't find a better one. I've joined several, this is the only one I've found really worth my time. My advice is to just ignore the negative comments and hang on for the ride, the thrill will be worth it!
 
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