Tipping mash/lauter tun after sparging

Ok, so I have been getting some off flavors in my past couple of brews and I am trying to rule out all suspects. I did find the brewmometer on my Blichmann was knocked about 10 degrees too high after just one brew (I'm now calibrating it before every brew) but my question is, after voorlafing and sparging, would it cause any harm to the pre boil wort by tipping the mash/lauter tun to get the necessary amount of pre boil wort needed (basically taking the wort out of the lauter tun dead space)? The problem I have is my kettle for heating the sparge water isn't big enough and I have been having to do this since I went AG and it just seems wrong to me. My next investment will be a 7.5 gallon kettle for sparge water but I am just curious if this has been my problem.

When I mashed in my cooler, I always tipped the MLT to get the last of the runnings out. Never a problem. However, your mash temp being off by 10 degrees is a huge red flag. If you feel the HLT is too small, use two pots to heat the water. Even if you boil 2 gallons on your kitchen stove, it will only help.

Yeah I figured we were probably extracting tannens at that point which is why the brews aftertaste tastes like morning mouth... blargh. Funny you should say to do two smaller pots because that's exactly what I did when I re-brewed this hef last Sunday. The only problem I found with that was it was difficult to keep the temperatures of those two HLT's up even from a boil. No matter though, after tomorrows brew I'll invest in a bigger pot. Thanks for the input!

I still mash in my cooler, I always tip, and I have no problem with off flavors at all, could you post up your whole process, maybe we can find a problem area to work on.

Yup, I tip too. In fact, usually when I'm draining/sparging I'll prop up one side of the tun so it sits a little higher and drains out the other side.

+1 On tipping, never had a problem.

I tip and I recommend getting bigger then a 7.5 gallon pot. Find a keg and convert. :rockin:

Sprice, you just made me feel like a moron.. because I am. We have a converted keg we use for a boil kettle and never thought once to use it to heat sparge water. D'oh! Haha oh boy. I'll post up a write up on the process later tonight, I'm waiting on my wort to chill right now!

07Oregonoutback said:

Yeah I figured we were probably extracting tannens at that point which is why the brews aftertaste tastes like morning mouth... blargh. Funny you should say to do two smaller pots because that's exactly what I did when I re-brewed this hef last Sunday. The only problem I found with that was it was difficult to keep the temperatures of those two HLT's up even from a boil. No matter though, after tomorrows brew I'll invest in a bigger pot. Thanks for the input!

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If your pH gets too high (like over 6) you can extract tannins. Usually your grain will be slightly lower and will keep the tannins out but if your brew water is naturally high or you try to sparge too much so the pH goes up you might have poblems.

Instead of precariously tipping, how about just add more sparge water? Sure it will be slightly more diluted, but I can't imagine it would be significant since we're talking about the last runnings.

I didn't know that the water PH had anything to do with extracting tannins, good to know! So my brewing process goes as such:

1) Fill the mash tun (a 10 gallon Blichmann w/ false bottom) up and past the thermometer and bring to a boil and calibrate thermometer.

2)fill the lauter tun dead space with water, then add 1.25 gallons of water for every pound of grain from there up.

3) Heat mash water to about 170 degrees and mash in to ATTEMPT to get a mash temp of 158. This is where I have problems, as the mash tun thermometer sometimes doesn't touch the mash unless I tip the mash tun, my alcohol thermometer reads 12 degrees low at boil, 5 degrees low at 171 so it's not accurate. I have an infrared but it won't read through the foam and grains. As of right now I really have no way of accurately holding a mash temp, or even knowing exactly what it is and I think this is my biggest problem.

4) while mash is sitting for an hour, I heat sparge water to a boil then let it cool to whatever sparge temp I need. Then depending on the brew I put the mash tun back on the burner and bring the temperature up about 10 degrees for 10 minutes.

5) After mashing, I voorlaf until the wort runs clear then sparge into the boil kettle being careful not to oxygenate it.

6)Bring sweet wort in kettle to a boil and add hops yadda yadda yadda for an hour or so.

7) chill wort with sterilized wort chiller to 68 degrees, transfer to clean carboy and pitch yeast and clarity ferm.

8) while transferring carboy to it's final fermenting place I try to oxygenate it by letting the wort splash around in the carboy.

I bought a dial thermometer with a 12 inch probe that seems to be quite accurate and came with a clip to hold it onto the side of my kettle. If it would reach in your mash tun, that might be an answer to the temperature question. If not, I bet you could make a float to hold it on the surface of the mash and read the temperature deep inside the mash. Even if your infrared thermometer would read the mash temperature, it would read the surface which is not the same as the center of the mash.

The grain is supposed to bring the pH of the water down and as you sparge that pH will rise. That is why a triple sparge isn't recommended as you may then have the higher pH and begin extracting tannins with the last of the sugary wort.

You really don't need to boil your sparge water, just heat it to the temperature you need for the sparge. Everything that you extract will be boiled later so you don't have to worry about bacteria at this point.

I'm guilty of not aerating the wort enough and I probably don't pitch enough yeast either. That combination will not give me or you the best flavors as the yeast struggle to multiply sufficiently in the wort that is deficient in oxygen. Even bubbling air won't give you the optimum level of oxygen, only by bubbling pure oxygen can you get the optimum amount.

Where did you find a thermometer with a 12 inch probe? Please don't say a local store.. that would be a hell of a drive. I use yeast nutrient to help the little guys along, and I have a whip that I attach to a drill but I am worried about over-aerating the wort (if there is such a thing), so I just splash it right now.

As far as I know, its basically impossible to over-aerate by shaking/stirring. I'm not even sure if bubbling pure oxygen through the wort can over-aerate it.

You'll get a lot of debating about the most effective way to aerate. In instances like this, I always take my cue from pro breweries. They use pure oxygen to target a certain dissolved O2 level. So that's what I'll do. 1 minute of holding a wand in the wort appeals much more to my laziness than shaking a carboy.

I think that shaking CAN be a fine method, but it takes a lot of work to ensure you get at least 8ppm of O2 in solution. There are many different recommendations on how long to shake it, ranging from just a few minutes to 15. I think the drill-paddlle-bit is one of the best, but how do you really know? And for high grav beers, is it enough? Again, I'll take my cue from pro breweries.

Jamil often talks about helping a friend fix his beer that he was over oxygenating. In short, the guy was a great homebrewer with great technique except that he was pumping O2 into his wort for like 5 minutes. Apparently his beers were turning out with super fusel alcohols and other problems. So there's definitely a limit to O2.