The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

Yakima 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
BrewKnurd said:
Well if those are the only two options, I agree, but they're not. :D
Click to expand...
Hey, stop making sense. We're talking about USMNT. Just look at BigSoccer... there's no room for rational thought here. :D

BrewKnurd said:
Besides, my point was just that it would be preferable for the players going to have had more experience. Not necessarily that I advocate picking other players just for additional experience. Obviously experience is just one factor to consider, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could argue that additional experience isn't a positive. Whether it outweighs other issues, including age, tendency to injury, future potential, etc, is another story entirely.
Click to expand...
The sense making. Stop it.

BrewKnurd said:
My problems with banking on the argument of a core group that "could be together" for 3 more world cups is 1) they'd better be younger than 22, because 3 world cups from now those 22 year olds are 34 and are those players that "used to be amazing". And since the same "youth vs over the hill old farts" logic would apply then, they won't actually be useful at that point (at least not according to the logic being considered). So I would cap the number of future world cups that core will be the core to 2. I mean, I believe DMB is about to be the first american ever to play in 4 world cups, right? 2) the other problem with banking on the future is that the future never turns out exactly like we dream. Players get hurt, don't develop like we thought they would, etc, etc. So to a certain extent, the WC, particularly given its rarity, should be, IMO, a win now proposition, because you have no idea what 4 years from now is going to look like. I mean, if we'd picked a 2010 team based on potential for 2014 and beyond, what are the odds it would look anything like the 2014 team we have in front of us?
Click to expand...
STAHP!

BrewKnurd said:
Bottom line, for me, is that there are plenty of places to develop those 22 year olds that aren't the WC. If they're not ready for the WC now, they shouldn't be there (with some rare exceptions). Now, if you have a 22 year old and a 32 year old that you believe are equally ready to contribute, then by all means, take the 22 year old.
Click to expand...

Yeah I do agree. I was just looking at it in a black-and-white sense for the fun of it.

Landycakes would have been a great asset for the youngins as well as being an important anchor in how the veterans work and flow together. But again, there must be something going on behind closed doors that has just evolved past the need to rely on LD. They've already shown during WCQ that they can adjust without him.

And I've been seeing a lot of people freak out about Brad Davis making it. Having a player on each wing (Davis and Zusi) that can make crosses with pin-point accuracy seems like an awesome attacking threat.
 
Also, I've been wanting to take a sweet photo like this for a few days and I'm finally home to do it. This is the gear we're wearing to the SF match. Same scarves, just showing each flip-side.

img_20140524_103504_650-63028.jpg


'MURICA
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Hey, stop making sense. We're talking about USMNT. Just look at BigSoccer... there's no room for rational thought here. :D


The sense making. Stop it.


STAHP!
Click to expand...

My bad. :)

Bigsoccer is a madhouse. I don't go there. :)



Reno_eNVy said:
Landycakes would have been a great asset for the youngins as well as being an important anchor in how the veterans work and flow together. But again, there must be something going on behind closed doors that has just evolved past the need to rely on LD. They've already shown during WCQ that they can adjust without him.
Click to expand...

Part of what makes it all very interesting to me is that both Howard and Bradley came out recently talking about how important LD was, I think Bradley said he would be essential to a good run in the WC. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts to someone that they have viewed as a talisman being removed from the picture. Honestly, I think a good bit of it was Jurgen's whole "take people out of their comfort zone" thing. Now, honestly, it remains to be seen whether taking a team out of their comfort zone is good or not, as it can have positive or negative effects depending on the teams mentality. One of my concerns is that it feels like Jurgen came in with an approach and isn't concerned with understanding if that's the best answer for a given group of guys, he's just decided how it will be. But, I have no way of knowing if that's what's really going or or just how Jurgen comes across.

Reno_eNVy said:
And I've been seeing a lot of people freak out about Brad Davis making it. Having a player on each wing (Davis and Zusi) that can make crosses with pin-point accuracy seems like an awesome attacking threat.
Click to expand...

I have never questioned his accuracy, its just that from what I've seen of Davis (which is admittedly almost entirely limited to USMNT games as I have seen very few Dynamo games) I've not seen him bring enough to the game to make me think "yup, that's a guy I want on the field a good chunk of time." Which is not to say he's not useful, and there are certainly arguments to include him on the roster. Just because I wouldn't doesn't mean I think he's useless. And I'm certainly not freaking out about it (not that i'm saying you were implying I was one of those people, to be clear). And I'm happy to accept the premise that Brad Davis is way better than what I've seen of him. Its definitely a possibility.

I guess the other thing is that I have concerns if our strategy is going to be to lump a bunch of crosses in. That's not the way Jozy and Clint are most effective. So for that reason, I'm not a huge fan of having two wingers primarily there for crosses.
 
Good points. But if you're willing to accept it, yes Davis is WC caliber when he's on his A game. And he is more often than not. Hell, his set pieces are reason enough to have him.

Zusi, on the other hand, can play the winger but is also a play maker and a player than can take a fullback 1v1
 
Oh jeez. Jumping around to decide what match to watch, I switched to NYvPOR and I watched a PK goal. Then I switched to VANvSEA and saw Barrett score right away. Then I checked out CLBvCHI and NEvDC to see if my luck extended. After I couple minutes of goalless action I switched back to VANvSEA... only to instantly see a Vancouver goal.

I HAVE THE POWEEEEER!
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Oh jeez. Jumping around to decide what match to watch, I switched to NYvPOR and I watched a PK goal. Then I switched to VANvSEA and saw Barrett score right away. Then I checked out CLBvCHI and NEvDC to see if my luck extended. After I couple minutes of goalless action I switched back to VANvSEA... only to instantly see a Vancouver goal.

I HAVE THE POWEEEEER!
Click to expand...


I managed to hop over just in time for the hurtado goal - of course, it was as I was walking out to take something to the garage and I hear my wife say "wow, that was pretty." At least I got the replay...


Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew
 
BrewKnurd said:
My bad. :)

Bigsoccer is a madhouse. I don't go there. :)





Part of what makes it all very interesting to me is that both Howard and Bradley came out recently talking about how important LD was, I think Bradley said he would be essential to a good run in the WC. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts to someone that they have viewed as a talisman being removed from the picture. Honestly, I think a good bit of it was Jurgen's whole "take people out of their comfort zone" thing. Now, honestly, it remains to be seen whether taking a team out of their comfort zone is good or not, as it can have positive or negative effects depending on the teams mentality. One of my concerns is that it feels like Jurgen came in with an approach and isn't concerned with understanding if that's the best answer for a given group of guys, he's just decided how it will be. But, I have no way of knowing if that's what's really going or or just how Jurgen comes across.



I have never questioned his accuracy, its just that from what I've seen of Davis (which is admittedly almost entirely limited to USMNT games as I have seen very few Dynamo games) I've not seen him bring enough to the game to make me think "yup, that's a guy I want on the field a good chunk of time." Which is not to say he's not useful, and there are certainly arguments to include him on the roster. Just because I wouldn't doesn't mean I think he's useless. And I'm certainly not freaking out about it (not that i'm saying you were implying I was one of those people, to be clear). And I'm happy to accept the premise that Brad Davis is way better than what I've seen of him. Its definitely a possibility.

I guess the other thing is that I have concerns if our strategy is going to be to lump a bunch of crosses in. That's not the way Jozy and Clint are most effective. So for that reason, I'm not a huge fan of having two wingers primarily there for crosses.
Click to expand...


I understand your feelings... in truth, Davis often plays in the middle and is a very good playmaker for the Dynamo... BUT on this team, he certainly isn't the best player available at that position! Again, I think he'll be a late game substitute only if we are down and need something special from a set piece, or cross into the box in the run of play.

Also, at this point, I'm starting to feel better and better or at least ok without LD on the team. I still would have liked him being an option off the bench late if needed... maybe 30 minutes at the most.... but as I look at this team.. there is plenty of talent there...

I think Klinsmann put a couple of the 20 year olds on the team, just to get them used to the surroundings and be ready for 2018...
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Also, I've been wanting to take a sweet photo like this for a few days and I'm finally home to do it. This is the gear we're wearing to the SF match. Same scarves, just showing each flip-side.

img_20140524_103504_650-63028.jpg




'MURICA
Click to expand...

Love the gear... wish I could be there with ya on Tuesday.... "we love ya, we love ya, we love ya, and where you go we'll follow, we'll follow, we'll follow, cause we support the US, the US, the US and that's the way we like it, we like it, we like it.... oooooooooooo!

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
Ya know what would improve those kits? A red cross on a white background and 3 lions! ;)
Click to expand...


That look just brings lots of agony and disappointment to the fans who wear it! ;)
 
bford said:
Also, at this point, I'm starting to feel better and better or at least ok without LD on the team. I still would have liked him being an option off the bench late if needed... maybe 30 minutes at the most.... but as I look at this team.. there is plenty of talent there...
Click to expand...

I'm getting there as well. He's still be there if it were up to me, and I still don't (and probably never will) believe that this decision was really entirely about on the field soccer. But viewed honestly, LD was unliekly to be the difference between a successful and unsuccessful WC. That's largely going to be down to the backline, IMO.

As far as LD vs the folks who I assume were the other borderlines in attacking positions, which for me are Davis and Wondo, they obviously all bring different things. The one difference is that LD has proven he can do it against high level WC caliber competition in games that matter, and the other two haven't. That, for me, counts for something. But what DOESN'T count for something when it comes to WC spots, is what counts to me. :)


bford said:
I think Klinsmann put a couple of the 20 year olds on the team, just to get them used to the surroundings and be ready for 2018...
Click to expand...

But does sitting on the bench at the WC get you ready for anything? So if you're bringing them, you'd better believe that they're ready to contribute at a high level, because there's a very real chance they'll have to. Jurgen is insane if he thinks that he's believable when he says that Yedlin, Brooks and Green are the best options for *right now* if you're not considering 2018, but he has the audactiy to say that (while at the same time talking about the steep learning curve they're on, which completely goes against his claim of them being the best options right now, IMO). Frankly I find that a bit insulting. But hey, I hope every one of them proves me completely wrong.

Unless, of course, you honestly believe you'll either be guaranteed to advance or not by the end of game 2 and game 3 is a throwaway, in which case the kids can get some experience even if they're not ready.

But for gaining meaningful experience, isn't playing in the Copa American in 2 years worth more (a lot more) than sitting on the bench at the WC this year?
 
Jurgen is just being mean now. :)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Happy Birthday to our <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoldCup&amp;src=hash">#GoldCup</a> captain <a href="https://twitter.com/DaMarcusBeasley">@DaMarcusBeasley</a>. He's heading to his fourth <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WorldCup&amp;src=hash">#WorldCup</a>, an amazing accomplishment !!</p>&mdash; Jürgen Klinsmann (@J_Klinsmann) <a href="https://twitter.com/J_Klinsmann/statuses/470320661999919104">May 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

EDIT: And some additional fun from twitter:
Brian Straus &#8207;@BrianStraus RT @JeremiahOshan Evans said he trained almost exclusively at center back while with USMNT. Was caught by surprise at timing of decision.
 
So apparently Fabian Johnson has been playing almost exclusively at RB in practice and scrimmages in camp. Every time I think I've given up as much as I can on understanding JK, he proves that I still have a little more giving up to do.

Not sure if this means DMB is pretty much locked down on the left, or if Chandler starts left while Johnson starts right (never mind that Chandler plays the majority of his club football on the right and Johnson most of his on the left). Or does JK view DMB as his starter on the left w/ Johnson as the backup but if Johnson isn't needed at left chuck him over on the right even thought you have two other right backs on the squad, and that's if you don't count Cameron (which he obviously isn't as far as the roster goes, but lets face it, the guy is well versed at right back).

SO CONFUSED.
 
BrewKnurd said:
Not sure if this means DMB is pretty much locked down on the left, or if Chandler starts left while Johnson starts right
Click to expand...
Honestly I think wedging a couple younglings between experience of DMB and Johnson is the best case scenario.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Honestly I think wedging a couple younglings between experience of DMB and Johnson is the best case scenario.
Click to expand...


But when you get down to it, DMB is a significantly less experienced defender than anyone on the back line. Just because he's got more US experience there doesn't make him a more experienced defender than chandler (or even brooks or yedlin).

But regardless of any of that, even if you think DMB is lockdown starter, doesn't that still mean that chandler, a right back, is your backup left back, so that a left sided player can be your right back?


EDIT: And by the way, if you happen to think that overall experience is worth a lot in this context, that's fine, and I'm not saying that it counts for nothing, but experience as a winger simply does not help you understand how to work as a cohesive back line unit, IMO, which is why calling Beasley experienced as a defender doesn't fly for me. :)
 
BrewKnurd said:
Well he is (unless he's a starter which us a very real possibility) and he is. :)

What do you dislike about Chandler?
Click to expand...

I feel like every time I see him play he is getting his ass kicked up and down the field.

This might be purely objective opinion and I just haven't seen enough of him.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
I feel like every time I see him play he is getting his ass kicked up and down the field.



This might be purely objective opinion and I just haven't seen enough of him.
Click to expand...


So with the caveat that it's been so long since he's played for the US that I can't be sure what I remember....

He was bad against Honduras, for sure, but in general the entire back line, and much of the midfield, was quite bad as well. Prior to that, I recall him having speed and decent crosses and better defensive capabilities than DMB, although those would have been in friendlies against who knows who.

I imagine we may get to see how he is tomorrow.

Which brings up a question: does Jurgen actually play his top choice lineup in any of the send-off games? Or is there even really a top choice lineup, or more that he has specific lineups in kind for specific games?




Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew
 
Been reading the posts. Been largely away as of late.

I like how this is the one place that's seemingly not ****ting themselves about Donovan not making it. I think that largely has to do with many people here watching MLS here and knowing Donovan isn't in great form.

I'm starting to wonder looking at the lineup construction if depending on camp we won't see Fabian at the MF.

I see in reality a few locks and a few tossups right now

Starter locks are Howard, Zusi, Dempsey, Jozy (though you never know) Besler, Gonzalez, Jones and Fabian are all likely starters. Beasley is almost a lock for starting but you never know. Chandler is a better fullback but has not been playing much and against Ronaldo they may opt for Timmy. And Klinsmann likes Cameron. You could also see some combination of Timmy, Beasley or Cameron at RB and LB and Fabian move up to midfield. I'm thinking that may be what happens. I don't know if Klinsmann will start Bedoya or Davis.

I think I posted this above before, if not I've talked about it to others. I want them to go something different from what Klinsmann has done do far.

--------------Howard---------
Johnson--Gonzilla--Besler---Beasley
----------Cameron--------
---Bradley---------Zusi
----------Dempsey------
----Altidore----Johannsson

Basically you have 5 guys holding deep, Bradley and Zusi as your going forward creatives, Dempsey basically plays the same role he plays now.

Say we get the lead and decide to park the bus, then you pull Jozy or Johannsson for Beckerman. If you need to score more bring on Green, Davis, Wondow, and/or Diskerud.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
Been reading the posts. Been largely away as of late.

I like how this is the one place that's seemingly not ****ting themselves about Donovan not making it. I think that largely has to do with many people here watching MLS here and knowing Donovan isn't in great form.
Click to expand...

Donovan is 4th in the league in chances created per game this season. I think his "poor form" is being a little overblown, personally. I also think one of the challenges for Donovan is that he is compared against the old landon donovan and found lacking, and that's just not a fair basis for comparison.

hoppyhoppyhippo said:
I'm starting to wonder looking at the lineup construction if depending on camp we won't see Fabian at the MF.
Click to expand...

I think, based on the outside backs brought in, that Jurgen is committed to Fabian at either left or right back at this point. But could be wrong.

I see in reality a few locks and a few tossups right now

hoppyhoppyhippo said:
Starter locks are Howard, Zusi, Dempsey, Jozy (though you never know) Besler, Gonzalez, Jones and Fabian are all likely starters. Beasley is almost a lock for starting but you never know. Chandler is a better fullback but has not been playing much and against Ronaldo they may opt for Timmy. And Klinsmann likes Cameron. You could also see some combination of Timmy, Beasley or Cameron at RB and LB and Fabian move up to midfield. I'm thinking that may be what happens. I don't know if Klinsmann will start Bedoya or Davis.
Click to expand...

I don't know of Gonzales counts as likely at this point. Not as likely as Besler, Jone or F Johnson IMO.

Curious if we see any of Cameron at RB given how Klinsi keeps talking about how he sees him as a CB. But I think I've made it clear how much I believe anything Klinsi talks about. :)

hoppyhoppyhippo said:
I think I posted this above before, if not I've talked about it to others. I want them to go something different from what Klinsmann has done do far.

--------------Howard---------
Johnson--Gonzilla--Besler---Beasley
----------Cameron--------
---Bradley---------Zusi
----------Dempsey------
----Altidore----Johannsson

Basically you have 5 guys holding deep, Bradley and Zusi as your going forward creatives, Dempsey basically plays the same role he plays now.

Say we get the lead and decide to park the bus, then you pull Jozy or Johannsson for Beckerman. If you need to score more bring on Green, Davis, Wondow, and/or Diskerud.
Click to expand...

I really don't see Jurgen going that offensive, although it would certainly fit better with the narrative he likes to spin about proactive attacking soccer more than the lineups he actually puts out there in most cases. :)

Apparently if the open practice today was an indication, the lineup might look like:
Howard
Johnson-Cameron-Besler-Beasley
Bradley-Jones-Zusi-Dempsey-Bedoya (assuming in a 2-3 formation)
Altidore
 
I think separating Gonzalez/Besler is a mistake. I don't recall which game they were seperated because of Besler's red but they were the best US pairing I've seen at CB in the last 4 years. Of course form is involved and Gonzalez hasn't been in amazing form. But there's something about Chemistry and Besler and Gonzalez have that, Cameron and Besler don't right now.

And Jurgen can talk about him as a CB, but he's primarily for the USMNT lately been at RB IIRC.
 
Just throwing this out there (a bit of pot stirring):
The 23 man squad is about to play 3 friendlies.
If there is an injury or exceptionally poor form by someone, you know Donovan has to be top of the list of replacements.
 
That was discussed in an article I read somewhere. Basically hinting that the odds of Landon not coming up with an injury are small with the most likely scenarios of that happening being if a GK goes down or a CB goes down. Even if they lose a fullback, there's enough depth that they may bring on Donovan.
 
BrewKnurd said:
So with the caveat that it's been so long since he's played for the US that I can't be sure what I remember....

He was bad against Honduras, for sure, but in general the entire back line, and much of the midfield, was quite bad as well. Prior to that, I recall him having speed and decent crosses and better defensive capabilities than DMB, although those would have been in friendlies against who knows who.

I imagine we may get to see how he is tomorrow.

Which brings up a question: does Jurgen actually play his top choice lineup in any of the send-off games? Or is there even really a top choice lineup, or more that he has specific lineups in kind for specific games?




Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew
Click to expand...

I think the last match I saw him in was the 2-2 against Mexico. If it is indeed the match I'm thinking of, he was getting beaten ragged.
 
There seems to be thought that Gonzales isn't 100 percent or is nursing a leg injury.... if it is apparent he isn't fully good to go by the end of these three games, he needs to be replaced.
 
Got into the city around 2, had lunch at the Rogue public house... freaking amazing.

At the hotel, finishing off the pregame bomber we got. Ready to go.

Let's go, Yanks! I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win!

1401235182557.jpg
 
Reno_eNVy said:
I think the last match I saw him in was the 2-2 against Mexico. If it is indeed the match I'm thinking of, he was getting beaten ragged.
Click to expand...


The only recent 2-2 game against mexico I can think of was this April, chandler hasn't played a usmnt game since February 2013 in Honduras. FWIW, right backs against Mexico were Tony Beltran and Yedlin.


Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew
 
bford said:
There seems to be thought that Gonzales isn't 100 percent or is nursing a leg injury.... if it is apparent he isn't fully good to go by the end of these three games, he needs to be replaced.
Click to expand...

I would agree. If Gonzalez isn't fit to start then bring up Goodson.
 
The match was awesome to attend.

Had one complaint and that was that the San Jose Ultras were trying to take over the AO chants so there were capos and supporters battling... not very united.

But at the 85th minute the cops wrangled the AO capos into the stand and there was no one leading so I jumped on the wall and continued to yell my face off for the rest of the time.

If you were there or saw me on TV, I was the dude with the green beanie, primary white jersey, and waving a flag.

Go Yanks
 
That was pretty ugly.
Play like that against Ghana & we are gonna get demolished.
I'm still not convinced of Jones at holding midfield.
 
It wasn't a perfect match, but.... that team played nothing like Ghana... ten behind the ball much of the time....


Ghana will attack.. and then be prone to being countered.. that really wasn't going to happen last night...

I agree about Jones... I know he is a good player, but I never feel like he's right for how we play.. I preferred Cameron at DM the couple of times I've seen him there...


One last point.. you simply can't replicate the pressure and added adrenaline of a world cup match with these friendlies... just gain some chemistry and stay healthy!!!
 
I thought Jones played well, he stayed disciplined which is key. Bradley cheated back but I think that had more to do with the fullbacks though.
 
You better believe that if Ghana get an early goal on us, they are gonna sit back and defend.
We need to be able to break down a defense of Azerbaijan's quality, no matter how many people they have behind the ball.

As far as Jones goes, ok, he didn't stray forward, well done. But his problem is that he doesn't shield the ball. Pressing teams are going to tear this apart.

The way I see it, we need a Big Win vs Ghana, and draw against Portual or Germany, and pray to go through on goal difference.
 

Similar threads

Reno_eNVy
The World Cup Approacheth
19 20 21
Replies
828
Views
33K
Gremlyn
Gremlyn
U
If nothing else, be a USA soccer fan today...
Replies
20
Views
2K
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top