How good is your beer? (really!)

I've been brewing for about 10 years now, and I think I make some decent beer but the question is how good is it?
Everytime a drink something for one of my favorite breweries I get knocked back to reality. Yeah, I make good beer but there is something about this (insert beer) that make it special. Do you all feel the same way?

I definitely had a "HomeBrew taste" at first. But it seemed to go away with kegging. Combine wiht starting to use gelatin giving my beers commercial clarity as well and given a good recipe, I honestly make beer as good as a craft brewery. Being able to reproduce that same exact taste over and over is what I think truly sets them apart.

I make great beer, but then again, so do a lot of people that homebrew and which I have had the chance to taste their beer.
To me each beer is a bit different.
Those I started drinking back when still taste good, but my tastes have evolved.

I have to admit that I get a bit of that. I really enjoy my beer, maybe even prefer it, but when I have one of my favorites (Racer 5, Dales Pale, Hop Rod, even Celebration) I do have that reaction. However I have not yet (only 7 months, 15 batches) been motivated to do a clone of any of these, so I guess my envy is not too strong.

I can say that I DO NOT have that reaction to my beer in comparison to my old standard, SNPA, of which I have drank (drunk?) over a 100 kegs. My beer kicks SNPAs ass, at least according to me and my old lady. https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/smilies/rockin.gif

I'd have to say I'm as good as alot of the brewpubs I've been to, and some smaller craft breweries. But when it comes to say: Sierra Nevada, Ommegang, Dogfish Head, Anderson Valley, New Glarus, ect. Now way, not even in the same ballpark.

Most of my friends say I can compete with a commercial brewery and I mini mash AND bottle my beer. Kegging is nice but you lose a lot of flavor kegging. There is just noway you can get that fantastic taste of cask ale from a keg.

ALTHOUGH as Steeler said - some places I can not go up against - Steeler - check out Ale asylum beers if you have a chance in janseville - I consider them the #1 in Wisconsin.

Grinder, with all due respect, I do not think they are number one in Wisconsin. I drank there just about every Friday for a year and a half and they make some wonderful beers. But on some of the Belgians I think they strike out. Just my opinion. I personally believe New Glarus is the states best, with Oso, Sprecher, Ale Asylum, and Muddy Waters being close.
But hey to each his own.

I am usually the other way around. Sure, I have made some beers that where underwhelming but, out of the thousands of commercialized beers I have tried I have yet to taste anything that made me have an epiphany.

Can't tell you how many times I 've had an epiphany when drinking a beer. Last time was @ Dogfish Head in Rehobeth Beach. I got the first pull off of the brand new 75 min they had on cask. Neeedless to say, my best friend and I drank ourselves sill on that stuff. Maybe one of the best beers I've ever tatsed. Was like the firast time I drank the entire Ommegang lineup in Ithaca, Or the first time I had a Sammy Smith Oatmeal Stout, or my first Berliner Weiss mit shuss.

The more commercial beer I drink...the more it makes only want to drink my homebrew.

Not all my beers are great or even good for that matter but imo my best beers are every bit as good as anything else I've had. Sometimes I'll try a craft brew and think it's awesome (and I'll usually immediately start thinking of how to clone it ) but sometimes I'll think; "My <insert style here> is better than this ainec."

I like drinking homebrew alot, I wouldn't brew as mush as I do if I didn't like it. But, there are beers out there taht I just need to have. Especially seasonals.

Grinder12000 said:

Most of my friends say I can compete with a commercial brewery and I mini mash AND bottle my beer. Kegging is nice but you lose a lot of flavor kegging. There is just noway you can get that fantastic taste of cask ale from a keg.

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Are you comparing bottling to kegging when you say you get less flavor? I seriously disagree with that. I do both and as long as you let both condition the same amount of time the beer comes out the same in my book. You are not going to get cask ale flavor from a bottle either.

Last night I tapped a keg of my last extract batch and was a little disappointed. Like most batches before it still had that "homebrew" twang to it. However, the two batches that I have fermenting now are both all grain brews. The batch I'm going to brew this weekend is also an all grain, but this will be the first time to use liquid yeast and a yeast starter.

I am very much hoping that going all grain and using liquid yeast will improve the taste of my beer. Are any of you who are brewing all grain with liquid yeast still getting that "homebrew" twang?

My beer is passable. I am in league with the OP and have seen nothing nor tasted anything to disprove my belief that professional brewers make a superior product to homebrew. Sorry to disappoint, but anyone who really is into good craft beer will agree. They make a cleaner, more consistent, more imaginative, and defining beer than most homebrewers can dream of.

I don't understand the fixation with being as good as a commercial brewer. Do you do this all day as your job? No. Just do the best you can and be happy doing it.

Maybe one day I will have a homebrew that really knocks my socks off.

Anyone can make the argument that they make great beer that is better than commercial, and there are some really bad commercial beers out there. But 99.999% of us do not. I have made beers that were craft quality (maybe 3) but that doesn't mean my beer is that awesome. Most of the time it is passable and that is enough to be a lot of fun.

Now people who aren't big into the craft world... they don't understand why I don't sell my beer and give up my day job to brew.

It is all perspective and bringing yourself into reality.

kanielb1 said:

The more commercial beer I drink...the more it makes only want to drink my homebrew.

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+1 If you follow proper sanitation and technique, you can make beer as good or better than the big guys. You have control over every ingrediant and you also have access to the same grains, hops and yeasts (for the most part) that they are using.

I brew my own beer to my own personal tastes, which is why I prefer my beer.

I like to play around with different processes and different ingredients. Some of my 'experimental' beers have been pretty bad. I do have two or three beers that I would rate as excellent, and several more I'm not embarrassed to serve to non-homebrewers.

However, like the OP, a bottle of great craft beer can really reveal to me how much I have yet to learn about making beer..

brrman said:

Are you comparing bottling to kegging when you say you get less flavor? I seriously disagree with that. I do both and as long as you let both condition the same amount of time the beer comes out the same in my book. You are not going to get cask ale flavor from a bottle either.

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I agree with you. You don't lose anything if you're kegging, unless you do something wrong.

As for how good my beer is? I would say decent. I am not close to my favorite's from Bell's, Founder's, Dogfish Head, etc. However, I do think it is about as good as a random pack picked up at the store. It depends on the batch though.

All in all, I am really not that great of a brewer.

kanielb1 said:

The more commercial beer I drink....

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YOU CAN BUY BEER?????!! I'll have to check that out.........

I can brew certain beers as good or better (for my taste at least) than some commercial beer. I can't do it consistently. I'm also my own worst critic, so I am rarely 100% happy with any beer I brew. I'll share a beer saying I don't think its that great, and point out all of the flaws. They just reply, "tastes great to me!". I hope my customers are like that when I actually open a brewery.

I also agree with the craft beer sentiment. I'll taste a great craft beer, or even talk to a renown brewer and realize how little I actually know.

Since I've been following HBT, my beers have dramatically improved, especially since going AG. That being said, I've never thought my beers were equal to some of the commercial brews I can buy.

Until now.

I'm not usually a fan of the brown ale, but I've got an upcoming contest (AHA club-only for February) that called for an English brown. I planned on giving away most of it (gave a six away on bottling day), but last night I tasted it after a week in the bottle. A little under-carbed, but otherwise outstanding! As good or better than any commercial brown I've ever had. I'll be keeping all the rest for me (minus the contest bottles of course).

Grinder12000 said:

Most of my friends say I can compete with a commercial brewery and I mini mash AND bottle my beer. Kegging is nice but you lose a lot of flavor kegging. There is just noway you can get that fantastic taste of cask ale from a keg.
.

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This is about the third time I know of where you say that Bottled beer taste better than kegged ... And again I say BS all things equal with conditioning they will be on par.. Actually the kegged being bulk aged may be better...


You do know what cask ale means right?


on topic . I brew good tasting beer everyone likes it is as good as say Russian river or Ommagang not all the time . Consistency makes them better brewers but then again if I had the equipment they have who knows

I've had micro/brew pub beer and I knew that I do that style better than what they had on tap.

I've also bought craft beer and I know I come nowhere near brewing as good of a beer as they brew.

Until I start submitting to contests, all I know is I get questions about buying bottles/kegs from me every time I share with someone who hasn't tried my beer before.

I'm happy with that.

Steelers77 said:

I've been brewing for about 10 years now, and I think I make some decent beer but the question is how good is it?
Everytime a drink something for one of my favorite breweries I get knocked back to reality. Yeah, I make good beer but there is something about this (insert beer) that make it special. Do you all feel the same way?

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In ten years you've never made a great beer?
I've had a few great commercial beers but most are mediocre, even
the good ones are stale more often than not because they've been
on the shelf and/or at room temp too long. I can't brew a lager like
the drafts I had in Germany, but that's only because I haven't tried.
Jim

jdc2 said:

In ten years you've never made a great beer?
I've had a few great commercial beers but most are mediocre, even
the good ones are stale more often than not because they've been
on the shelf and/or at room temp too long. I can't brew a lager like
the drafts I had in Germany, but that's only because I haven't tried.
Jim

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This makes me remember that I live in a great place for craft beer. Many people live in desolate beer hells. Those folk probably do brew better beer than the commercially available beer.

I compare my beers to the best of the best commercially. I don't consider my beer awesome until it is as good as the best.

I think making great beer depends on the water. I am lucky enough to have good water and I prefer my beer over comercial craft brews.

There are some great commercial beers out there. Beers that I try for the first time and am transported to beer nirvana. But I've had the same experience with homebrew too. In fact, the best beer I've ever had was a homebrew. I'm salivating right now just remembering the taste of that golden nectar.

So it is more than possible to make homebrew that is better than a commercial beer, but its not easy! In fact, I'd say that about the same percentage of commercial and homebrewed beers are truly great.

I've brewed a lot of homebrew in my life and I'd say that my average beer is better than the average commercial, but in all my time brewing I'd say that only one or two have been great. I'm talking award winning great. Like all the stars and planets aligned, all the random factors came together and helped me create a truly exceptional beer.

But I can also say that over the years the overall quality of my beers has gotten better and better and there is no question in my mind that I will make more and more exceptional beers in the upcoming years.

A few factors to consider:

1. The more variables you as a homebrewer can consistently control, the better your beers will be. Obvious, but true. Commercial brewers (in general) are going to be able to brew more consistently then your average homebrewer.

2. The better you take care of your yeast, the better your beer is going to be. You can do everything perfect in the creation of your beer, but if you just toss a single package of yeast in at the end without care as to pitching rate, temp, the health of the yeast etc., then your beer isn't going to be as good as it could be.

3. Very few homebrewers brew the same recipe enough times to tweak it and address perceived weaknesses appropriately. When you drink a truly exceptional commercial beer, a Lagunitas IPA for example, you aren't drinking that brewer's first attempt. You are drinking a beer that has been brewed, tweaked, brewed, tweaked, and brewed and tweaked again until it is exactly perfect. I guarantee that if you brewed each recipe over and over tweaking it each time, eventually you would find you were crafting a truly exceptional beer. But most home brewers, myself included, brew a plethora of different beers. I seldom brew the same recipe twice so how am I ever going to perfect them? Even award winning recipes need to be tweaked to be tailored to your individual brewing system.

At the end of the day, I prefer one of my homebrews, even the ones that are just good rather than exceptional. Why? Because I made it! Because I put my heart and soul and sweat into that beer and when I drink it I take pleasure in that fact and am inspired to brew again and do it better and to make even better beer. There are a few craft brewers out there that pour as much love into each batch as I do, and it shows in their beers, but I know how much work goes into my beer and for that reason my beers almost always taste better.

I'm more partial to my own brews, mainly because I brew them for me, with ingredients and flavor combinations I like. I'd be hard pressed to find a commercial old ale with fresh wildflower honey and cinnamon, aged on oak with organic vanilla beans...

I still seek out the hard-to-find, seasonal releases of the good craft breweries. I love the depth of flavor and the crazy ideas they are able to pull off on a large scale.

And again I say BS all things equal with conditioning they will be on par

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I agree - however - often times kegged beer is not aged. So while I statement is flawed I'll stand I will say that 90% of the time kegged beer that I have tasted is green because most people do not age their kegged beer because of lack of kegs.

So yes - the kegged beer I have had by your typical home brewer is drunken green.

Grinder12000 said:

So while I statement is flawed I'll stand I will say that 90% of the time kegged beer that I have tasted is green because most people do not age their kegged beer because of lack of kegs.

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That I can agree with - the fact that you can have your beer on tap all that much faster by kegging is actually a detriment to flavor if you don't have patience to let it condition.

And I'm glad you limited the statement to your experiences because there are people, believe it or not, that let their beer condition before tapping it. It's not lack of kegs - its lack of patience on the part of the brewer.

But back to the original question - my beer, for my taste, is as good as or better than anything I can buy. I seldom attempt styles that are not among my favorites, and in almost a decade of brewing I've gotten to where I can hit my marks, or vary from my own norms, in very predictable ways.

I've tried other styles once in a great while (like a hefeweisen) and decided that for the amount of them that I wanted, I was better off just buying it since I was not going to put the time in to get making a good version down pat.

I wish there was an objective way to actually answer this question.

This will seem cynical by definitions, but honestly I am guessing that most homebrew is nowhere near as good as good craft/micro/macro brew. Of course the reality is we always think our beer is good, and when it is bad we have some excuse for it, so its hard to remove the subjectivity out of our answers.

Another problem is that I think homebrewers tend to make things that they like - so by definition you will like it. I know for a fact that I make beers that have flavor profile that is not pleasing to most people, but I enjoy them. Larger beer producers obviously have some interest in providing a flavor profile that appeals to a larger group of people.

So in a sense its not fair to compare homebrew to professional beer since the objectives are different.

But in general I would also take the "beer goodness rating" of a homebrewer and divide it by two to account for any lack of objectivity, haha.

Actually, to really answer this question, the only standardized test is competitions (or at least the best test out there).

Most of the good craft brew places that I have been to will have won multiple awards with their beer. I am guessing most homebrewers with "amazing" beer have not (like myself). So the only way to tell the "goodness" of your beer is to submit it to competitions. That's the best way to get objective ratings.

I'm a relative noob so my beer is far from great at this point. That being said, it gets batter with every batch. I like to believe that eventually I will be able to produce a superior beer on a fairly regular basis.
That being said, I completely agree with the statement that commercial brewers have made the same recipe over and over again in order to find all of the little flaws and adjust the brew to their unique setup or vice versa. This means that they made the exact same beer every couple days for an extended period of time. How many home brewers do you know that will make the exact same beer batch after batch?
Also I think that commercial brewers are probably working with slightly better ingredients and they are thoroughly testing their ingredients. Commercial brewers run a gammut of scientific tests on their their incoming raw ingredients (or the getting the spec sheet from the malt house or grannery that did do these tests) and on their final product and have panels of trained tasters that make sure that every batch is consistent. This allows them to detect seasonal variation in grain, hops, etc. and to adjust their recipe accordingly. Consistent excellence doesn't mean using the exact same ingredients every time, it means being able to identify the slight variations in your ingredients and being able to adjust accordingly. In general home brewers do not have the time or equipment to do this.

I do think there are some things that homebrewers can do to take their brew to the next level though. These include: becoming a judge for competitions so that you can train yourself to identify the small flaws in your beer and know what caused them without having to guess; reading through technical brewing and fermentation texts and maybe even some engineering texts; running experiments where you make one variation between two batches and compare them side by side - take the better of the two and repeat, and repeat, and repeat. Again, this is a lot to do and most home brewers - me included - will have to settle for slow and steady improvement due to time, budget, and patience constraints.

I have made 7 batches AG so far and can tell that they are some really good beers comparing to my extract and PM batches. But I think a lot of the perceptions I have about my beer is based on the fact that I created this. I made this with my bare hands and tons of love. I always tell people that you are drinking #17 of 45. A very rare beer that you can't get anywhere else unless you happen to stumble in my closet. I am still finding my technique and trying to create that delicious house ale.

I like most of my beer as much as comparable commercial beer.

I'm a total noob, but I think my beer is decent. More than anything though, brewing my own beer has taught me to appreciate beers at a much deeper level. Now instead of saying to myself "I like this beer" I find myself thinking things like "I like this beer and here are the characteristics that I like about it." To me, that makes this whole endeavor worthwhile.

Steelers77 said:

I've been brewing for about 10 years now, and I think I make some decent beer but the question is how good is it?
Everytime a drink something for one of my favorite breweries I get knocked back to reality. Yeah, I make good beer but there is something about this (insert beer) that make it special. Do you all feel the same way?

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I know what you are talking about, but does that favorite brewer lack something you want? You, as a home brewer , can work to produce a beer that exactly produces the taste you desire. That's what homebrewing is about. Some of my Buds joke at my taste in beer, but it is all in fun. I try to make what they like too. Experimentation is what it is about. I believe any homebrewer can eventually produce a beer with any taste chariteristics that they desire. My favorite beer is a full bodied old style American Pre prohibition. MMMMM! Well, after researching and tweaking, I have a recipe that, to me, is the greatest beer in the world. To others it is akin to horse p*ss. We are not trying to please the world, only ourselves and our buds. Make a beer that suits your taste, then your buds. The wourld will smill upon thee.

I've only been brewing for just over a year. It's all been drinkable.

But as I learn, tweak my process, brew the same recipe again and again gaining knowledge of the taste difference made from each modification. It is getting better.

My target is a lofty one. A true Mac&Jack clone or something similar to it. As that is my favorite beer of all time. But I'm a harsh critic of my own brew. I have a long way to go.

But I've made great progress this year. I hope that I am able to make the same progress in my next year. If I can find a local contest, I'll submit something just to begin getting feedback and establish my base line for the best I can brew.

As others though, I brew what I'm interested in and know I'll like if I follow the best brewing practices of sanitation. So I'm not a "great Brewer", as I'm not capable of brewing vast varieties of beer. I just don't know near enough. I'm just starting this journey and LOVING every pint of it! :rockin:

Cheers