StarSan... In the boil.

First, the question at hand: If you *accidentally* add StarSan sanitizer to your wort pre-boil, what will this do to the finished product?

To explain:
This is horribly embarrassing to even admit to as I've been homebrewing for years now, but I finally made a mistake that I just couldn't RDWHAHB to. I was draining off the wort from my mash tun into an Ale Pail (to roughly measure the volume) and transferring the wort from there into the brew kettle outside in the bitter cold. But after the first runnings, when I went to collect the first sparge, I grabbed the bucket I had brought up for sanitizing the post-boil equipment, which contained only the 1 oz. StarSan I had put in it. I realized after that it was the wrong bucket, mostly because there was a ridiculous amount of foam building up, and it was too high of a volume to just throw away without making the whole brew-day worthless. So I boiled it all and plowed ahead like nothing happened, all the while worrying that this batch was done for.

I know StarSan stops being an active sanitizer as pH gets more neutral, and since this was a fairly light blonde ale I'm hoping the pH got above the threshold to keep it from killing off pitched yeast. I was also hoping that the boil would provide enough energy to possibly break down the sanitizing chemical or cause it to react with the wort in such a way as to deactivate it's properties but not take a large crap on the flavor. I'm aware that StarSan becomes a yeast nutrient in the long run when it's just the foam in the bucket that gets left behind, I've just never heard of an entire ounce of it going into the fermenter.

Luckily, I pitched two packets of dry yeast in the first place (I keep meaning to finish the soldering on my stir-plate to do starters), so even if some of the yeast got offed the fermentation has seemed to be going okay. My only concern is the off-flavors that could be coming out of this, which would be detrimental to a lighter ale.

I don't know what will happen to your brew, but I'm subbed to find out others' opinions and how this turns out.

my guess is that it will have no effect on fermentation, but might effect flavor.

good luck!

Hmm this is a new one. So you added 1 oz of starsan concentrate to 5 gallons of beer?

I don't think this is dangerous, since it's the same concentration as properly diluted star san. But it might make for an interesting sour beer...

I would be concerned about the toxicity even from just 1 oz in 5 gallons since you would actually be drinking it. That's just me though.

The amount of phosphoric acid present in properly diluted Star San is lower than in Coke.

If it turns out well maybe you just found a new additive

Some people add phosphoric acid to their beers to sour them intentionally! I say give it a taste.

Isn't there a number on the starsan bottle? Also, I am pretty sure there is a warning on the back that says do not drink. If you drink call poison control. I dont know this guy apparently drank some in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/star-san-warning-bottle-198854/


I personally would probably count it as a loose and brew a new batch. Is 30 bucks worth the risk?

I'm not concerned with the phosphoric acid at all, it's the surfactant/detergent chemical Dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid (Laurylbenzenesulfonic acid) that has me concerned. This may be the foamiest beer ever made, but if it didn't get broken down at all (or just enough) there's a chance it'll taste pretty bizarre and possibly be a stomach irritant. I'm looking into the toxicity of the chemical now to see if there's a health risk involved.

I'm no chemist or biologist but I think that the wort should not ferment properly unless the boil did somehow break down the starsan (don't know how that would happen). Water (pH around 7) with Starsan added brings the solution down to under 3.5 for an effective sanitizer. Beer is more acidic than water (less than 7) so the pH of the starsan wort should still be less than 3.5, making it too hostile of an environment for the yeast to thrive.

That is my hypothesis. Test the pH of the wort and get back to us OP.

I would probably "fear the foam" in this case. Another reason to go iodophore. you can see it clearly in the vessel!

The same thought went through my head originally, but the acids in the wort are biologically derived acids, so I feel confident in saying that they should display a decent buffering effect and raise the pH when compared to StarSan in water alone. What's more, I did observe fermentation taking place over the few days, so I know the sanitizing properties were diluted/destroyed. However,

A website discussing dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid lists the specific gravity at 77F to be one, meaning that at 65 F (the temp I measured out one fl oz), it was a bit greater than that. Five Star Chemicals lists StarSan as a specific gravity of 1.32, which is potentially just the increase from the 5.8% addition of phosphoric acid or (hopefully) could be due to additional water content. Either way, converting between all the different units and measurements, and we have at most 36g of StarSan in the 5L of beer. But, according to the above listed website, the Protective Action Criteria cut-off is 2 ng/L.. And we have 7.2g/L, or roughly 360000% of that value. Terrifying. However,

Sigma Aldrich only lists a GSH05 warning, which is used to denote corrosive materials (more specifically, corrosive to metals, skin, and eyes). It does not list any sort of toxicity as far as consumption is concerned. Oxford University did a study and indicated that the LD50 for rats was 600 mg/kg, or about 48g to the typical beer-drinking adult. This means that One would have to consume all 5 gallons in one sitting to get close to the point of critical toxicity, which we all know would be overshadowed by the acute alcohol poisoning long before. Additionally, ChemSpider lists the compound as being a hygroscopic (water absorbing) yellow-brown solid, not the liquid we all know and love, so there has to be some water used as a solvent. All this in consideration, I suppose the only thing to do would be to try a little bit... and if I get stomach inflamation, irritated intestinal tract, or vomiting, then it's a lost cause.

One last thing: I don't have a pH meter, so I won't be able to provide a decent pH. But again, acidity isn't my concern so much as being a vendor of death.

wouldn't the starsan prevent the yeast from doing what they do

StarSan is a wet surface sanitizer, and can only work on essentially clean surfaces. Going into a full wort would introduce all kinds of competing chemicals and biological buffering agents, rendering the sanitizing properties essentially useless. Might some yeast get killed off? Possibly, but there are too many yeast cells in a single pitch to have to worry much about all the yeast dying. It could result in an under-pitched beer or plenty of strange flavors developing from slain yeast, but I think the primary concern is the surfactant agent's flavor addition and potential toxicity. That, and the resulting sourness from the phosphates not consumed by yeast.

Does anybody here listen to the Brewing Network? This has been discussed in full with the owner of Five Star Chemicals. 1oz of Star San in a 5 gallon batch will not hurt you and the yeast will eat most of it anyways.

I believe this was the show....
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/469

Monster Mash said:

Does anybody here listen to the Brewing Network? This has been discussed in full with the owner of Five Star Chemicals. 1oz of Star San in a 5 gallon batch will not hurt you and the yeast will eat most of it anyways.

I believe this was the show....
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/469

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1 oz of Star San solution will not hurt you, 1 oz of concentrated Star San hopefully won't either but may taste unpleasant.

Just an update, the fermentation completed in 2 and a half days despite the sanitizer being present. I left it for an additional day, than racked it to a secondary to settle down a bit. The few drops a tasted from the racking cane were strange; I'm not sure if it's really sour, but it kinda seemed like it could be a bit, but after the sourness it's seriously delicious. Sad that it may have tainted an otherwise fantastic brew. I will say that it was seriously still pretty foamy, so that's gonna be a riot once it's carbed and ready to pour. 5" head, anyone?
I've only got a few days planned on the secondary before I have to bottle it since this was a real last-minute brew for an event in a week and a half, so we'll soon have results.

I'm sure it would be fine.....however for me at least pyschologically I would never enjoy a beer that had a full dose of starsan in it.

That sucks. I would dump it and start over. Call it stress related brewing malfunction.

My bet is that the billions of yeast in there find a way to fix your mistake.

It's an upside to groupthink.

Mike In AK..........is probably right!

Trillium said:

That sucks. I would dump it and start over. Call it stress related brewing malfunction.

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Only problem is, this was a time-sensitive brew for an event. So either we're short beer or we serve up some unknown flavors. smack: I guess I'd rather dump it at the last minute than dump it and wonder what could have been!

I bottled off secondary last night. It looked pretty good, almost totally clear (which I did not expect for such a fast turn-around.) FG was 1.002. The sample I tasted was definitely... different. A bit sour at first, but honestly, it's got a surprisingly rich malty flavor. Foaminess was still a touch more than anticipated, so this might be hilarious when we go to crack open a bottle and fill a 16 oz glass with a 4" unwavering head on it. I'll pop one open in a few days to see how it's going.

Pr'ly make a pretty good shampoo if nothing else.

DonLiguori said:

Only problem is, this was a time-sensitive brew for an event. So either we're short beer or we serve up some unknown flavors. smack: I guess I'd rather dump it at the last minute than dump it and wonder what could have been!

I bottled off secondary last night. It looked pretty good, almost totally clear (which I did not expect for such a fast turn-around.) FG was 1.002. The sample I tasted was definitely... different. A bit sour at first, but honestly, it's got a surprisingly rich malty flavor. Foaminess was still a touch more than anticipated, so this might be hilarious when we go to crack open a bottle and fill a 16 oz glass with a 4" unwavering head on it. I'll pop one open in a few days to see how it's going.

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1.002?

That must be a very light blonde. Anyway, you now know the yeast were happy.

passedpawn said:

That must be a very light blonde.

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Yeah, that was the idea. I have a few "heavier" beers for a friends co-ed baby shower (if its gonna be co-ed, there better be booze) and wanted a homebrew for the light lager crowd. OG was a shy 1.038 and it fermented farther than I expected, but the malt flavor is still very prevalent so I won't complain about the extra ethanol! I shot for a low 4% and ended up with 4.7% ABV.

Did this turn out?

How ironic if you got an infection.

A little update for the StarSan-in-the-Boil Blonde: it turned out FANTASTIC. Threre is a hint of StarSan-ny goodness in it, but it isn't at all unpleasant. In fact, any friend who's had it and doesn't homebrew (ie, doesn't know what starsan is nor what it smells like) has absolutely loved it and said they didn't detect anything weird/bad in the taste or aroma. I can't wait to make a batch without to compare the brews!
There is a touch of sourness at the beginning, but the malt-base takes over quickly and it finishes really clean. I hate to say how much I love a beer I was afraid to drink in the first place. Also, note that I drank three in a row before letting anyone else drink it as a guinea pig test for the possibility of upset stomach or GI irritation. Never had a problem

DonLiguori said:

A little update for the StarSan-in-the-Boil Blonde: it turned out FANTASTIC. Threre is a hint of StarSan-ny goodness in it, but it isn't at all unpleasant. In fact, any friend who's had it and doesn't homebrew (ie, doesn't know what starsan is nor what it smells like) has absolutely loved it and said they didn't detect anything weird/bad in the taste or aroma. I can't wait to make a batch without to compare the brews!
There is a touch of sourness at the beginning, but the malt-base takes over quickly and it finishes really clean. I hate to say how much I love a beer I was afraid to drink in the first place. Also, note that I drank three in a row before letting anyone else drink it as a guinea pig test for the possibility of upset stomach or GI irritation. Never had a problem

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glad to hear it turned out OK!

more proof that you really have to TRY to ruin beer to actually ruin it.

A few more weeks in the bottle might make it even better. Sounds like it won't last that long though......