House is only 120v!

I just got everything that I need to add a 240v sub panel, and discovered I might have a problem.

There are only 2 wires coming in from the meter.

1 goes to the nuetral bar, and the other goes to the right side of the breaker bar, but then is jumped to the left side of the breaker bar. The breakers only use the left or right side with the exception of a space in the bottom that could be a two pole breaker spot that attaches to both the left and the right.

Struggling with the fact that this house was probably built in the 20's and may only have 120.

There is no 2 pole breakers on the panel.

The dryer is a stacked 120v.

Gas everthing.

I could take a picture, but would be a pain to make it helpful(pull breakers)..

Is there a main breaker? If so, what is the amperage?

Sounds like it's time to get some service upgrade quotes.

It's funny.... no main breaker.

If the house was built in the 20's, it is more than likely that the entire house was wired using "knob & tubing" method being done at that time. If so: Set yourself up for a complete home wiring job. If I were in you situation, I'd call the power company for assistance, recommendations and help.

Wish we were closer, I'd help. Been through that before when I was a pre-teen. (Long, long story.)

P-J

It is actually rewired already, with nice new armored cable all thoughout... It is just the circuit box is 120 service i believe... I will add a picture of the wiring schematic that is being used for the panel.

Yeah, at the very least a service change is in order. Ask around for an electrical contractor you can trust. Won't be cheap, but will be worth it. More for the safety aspect than the brewing. A 125 capacity ain't much these days.

Can't do a service change... I rent!

I have no problem removing this when I leave, so patching a couple of small holes is no issue.

Here is a picture of the current box. Any ideas about how I can simply add a sub panel that will power 3 2500w 120v elements? 5 would be better, but 3 will work.

I may be shooting in the dark here but it could be worth the try to get your landlord to upgrade the service...if you play the safety card you might have some luck

I would rather not involve him... Not hiding anything, just easier I find to keep it simple.

benbradford said:

Any ideas about how I can simply add a sub panel that will power 3 2500w 120v elements? 5 would be better, but 3 will work.

Click to expand...

Holy crap you think big! 5 elements at 2500w each is 12,500w What size batches are you looking to do, 50 gal.??? 4000w will do 10 gallon batches.

I will be doing simultaneous 12.5 gallon batches... I had 4 2500 elements... Bought 220v 5500 elements, but this electrical issue won't let me use them. I thought that if I had them, I could use them on 120v (1350amp). I have lots of control with them, so why not have faster temp changes?

That panel is tiny! Maybe you'll be doing your all-electric 12.5 gallon batches at your next house? Or else.... how big is the gas pipe?

I recall reading elsewhere on this forum that you can use 220 v elements at 120 v, but you only get something like 1/4 of the watts out of them. However, I am not an electrician or an engineer.

I knew about the 220v elements being used at 110, but already have 4 110v 2500w elements. I basically believe that I will have to wait till a future house for the 220v plan to come into place.

I don't even mind having everything that I purchased, for that future design. I am headed down the path of a 220v bcs460 electric brewery.

I would like to repurpose what I have for adding three 110v 25a outlets.

Can I add a 50a and a 25a breaker to the main and run them on the 6/3 wire to the subpanel with one side of the panel being the 50 with 2 25a breakers each going to an outlet while the other is a 25a breaker going to a single outlet? The fourth element would be going to the wall...

This would at least allow me to use what I have installed, and brew!

That one is kind of tricky. I can't quite see it from the picture, but is there space for more breakers underneath? It looks like it shows it in the diagram. If so adding additional breakers is probably the easiest way to do it, because if done very carefully it is feasible to add them without having to cut the power to the circuit panel, because you can tie in the neutral and ground safely, then keep the new breaker off until the hot wire is connected to it, though many people would say you should never do hot work. The problem with asking the power company to turn off the power by pulling the meter is that in many areas they won't put the meter back in until you have the system inspected. Based on the loads you are describing it sounds like the service will be nearly maxed out.

I don't believe you can use the 6/3 wire for a 50a and 25a breaker in this case. The neutral would carry the sum of the loads so that would be 75a. I think the 6/3 wire is not rated for that much current?

Hard to tell from the pics, but is that a Zinsco panel?

You could run some say #2 seu aluminum wire to a hard wired control panel then internally within the control panel individually fuse the wires to each element as needed. This would allow you to get the amps to what you need and cost a lot less that copper wire. You wont likely find a single pole breaker higher than 30a, but you can still use a double pole breaker and just tie onto one leg. It will work fine like that.
grandequeso

google seach 2-2-2 aluminum seu. To see the type of wire I'm suggesting. I think it would work well for your application as it is relativly cheap, and durable. Its basically two insulated conductors with a ground wire that wraps around the two wires, all wrapped in a flexable pvc jacket which makes it all waterproof.

I think mobile home feeder cable is what the garage forums like to suggest since it's relatively inexpensive and good for 100A or 125A depending on the gauge and other factors.