Is PBW the same as Oxyclean

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climateboy

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Hi, all.

I'm putting in a big order at Austin Homebrew Supplies, and I need a good cleaner for a bunch of grimy champagne bottles I'm picking up next week from Craigslist. AHS does not sell oxyclean, which I hear will be best for this sort of cleaning job...is PBW the same thing or just as good? What should I use?

For the record, AHS sells:


B-Brite Cleaner
BrewVint Cleanitizer
BTF Sanitizer (similar to C-Brite)
Easy Clean Cleaner/Sanitizer
IO Star
Iodophor 33 oz. Dispensing Pump
Liquid Line Cleaner (LLC)
One Step Sanitizer
PBW (Powdered Brewery Wash)
Potassium Metabisulphite
Saniclean Sanitizer (32 oz.)
Star San Sanitizer
Ultimate Brewery Cleaner (UBC)
 
I don't know if PBW is the same as Oxyclean, but I do know that if you really want Oxyclean you can get it at Walmart. It's on the laundry detergent aisle.
 
No, PBW is different---it's a caustic rather than an oxygen based cleaner. If you put an oxyclean solution into an aluminum kettle, it will turn dark gray from oxidation; pbw won't.
 
No, PBW is different---it's a caustic rather than an oxygen based cleaner. If you put an oxyclean solution into an aluminum kettle, it will turn dark gray from oxidation; pbw won't.

Is it safe for plastic fermenters and better bottles, then?

Which would you recommend for grimy champagne bottles from someone's backyard (60 of 'em!)
 
No, PBW is different---it's a caustic rather than an oxygen based cleaner. If you put an oxyclean solution into an aluminum kettle, it will turn dark gray from oxidation; pbw won't.

Aside from just turning it dark gray, are there any ill effects on the aluminum? And is there any differnece in using PBW and Oxiclean with SS?
 
In my experience PBW works better than Oxi but is much more expensive. I use Oxi all the time now simply because it is cheaper. If you have the cash, PBW is a superior product IMHO.
 
for old nasty bottles i use a 50 gal plastic drum and bleach, cheap and very effective

+1 on this.

I had a load of beer bottles friends had collected that were full of mold. Overnight in some buckets with hot water and bleach and they were clean. I mixed it up pretty strong too. Get some rubber gloves if you mix it up really strong :eek:
 
I believe from what others have said, Oxyclean "Free" is the one to get. I use regular old oxyclean for my stuff, and haven't noticed any negative effects on my beers, however people have suggested that since regular oxyclean has detergents in it, it is not the "BEST" oxyclean product for brewers. Oxyclean Free is simply detergent free...
 
UBC is AHS's version of PBW and is very similar.
PBW is an excellent cleaner and does a great job, I would expect UBC to be just as good.
Craig
 
Sorry, I gotta ask again...is PBW safe for plastics?

I use mine on my conical plastic fermenter. I first get all the big chunks of ferment residue off the soak in just very hot water, then dump it. Then I mix up a small batch of PBW and wash using a washcloth. Then a cold rinse.

You could just soak in PBW but (as was previously mentioned) it is a little expensive. I have a 15 gallon conical - it would cost too much to mix the correct ratio of water to cleaner.

IMHO - I don't like oxyclean because it doesn't rinse easily. However it does make a cheap cleaner for initial cleaning of bottles, kegs, and whatnot.
 
I use mine on my conical plastic fermenter. I first get all the big chunks of ferment residue off the soak in just very hot water, then dump it. Then I mix up a small batch of PBW and wash using a washcloth. Then a cold rinse.

You could just soak in PBW but (as was previously mentioned) it is a little expensive. I have a 15 gallon conical - it would cost too much to mix the correct ratio of water to cleaner.

IMHO - I don't like oxyclean because it doesn't rinse easily. However it does make a cheap cleaner for initial cleaning of bottles, kegs, and whatnot.
I've never had any problems with oxiclean not rinsing easy. 3 rinses with hot water.
 
I've never had any problems with oxiclean not rinsing easy. 3 rinses with hot water.

+1

I never have a problem rinsing with hot tap water. Either use my bottle spray jet with hot water for beer bottles and carboys Or I use the vegetable sprayer for my brew pot and buckets. Wish I had a utility sink, lol
 
Who is this AHS you speak of?

We have our own version of PBW called Ultimate Brewery Wash. If you use PBW you will like it and you will save money. Click Here

If you use Oxiclean, please, please make sure you rinse really really well to remove the soda ash.

Forrest
 
I've never had any problems with oxiclean not rinsing easy. 3 rinses with hot water.

One hot water rinse will be sufficient to fully clear PBW or any other "free-rinsing" cleaner. When you say you have no problem by rinsing it three times you are really saying you have no problem with water usage or your time spent rinsing a cleaner which is NOT free-rinsing even though you have to rinse it THREE TIMES!

By the way, up the temp on your rinsewater to as hot as your wash and your rinse becomes more effective.

:mug:
 
Hi, all.

I'm putting in a big order at Austin Homebrew Supplies, and I need a good cleaned for a bunch of grimy champagne bottles I'm picking up next week from Craigslist. AHS does not sell oxyclean, which I hear will be best for this sort of cleaning job...is PBW the same thing or just as good? What should I use?

****************

There are similarities between the two and a reason why PBW is not found on the laundry soap isle at your local retailer (although it DOES do a GREAT job there and occasionally finds its way into our washing machine at home, too!)

Both are oxygenated Alkali cleaners. PBW, carrying numerous US Patents, set the stage by being a breakthrough product harnessing Oxygen as a solvent without being corrosive. Many other products now mimic that capacity but PBW was initially DESIGNED for a major U.S. brewery and goes much farther than just being an Oxygenated alkali.

In short, as PBW was built for the brewer, it has a package of chelators and surfactants chosen for that role. Chelation addresses mineral soiling and surfactants (detergents) also help the solution break down various soils. Products like the one mentioned and many others either have NO chelation or a very generic one not built for brewery chemistry, resulting in limited cleaning, especially over time. Yes, this can make PBW a tad more pricey, or does it? The recommended dilution for the home brewer is 2 oz per 5 gallons; spending about $1.75 to clean my gear with the finest alkali wash around seems reasonable to me (AND its biodegradable and yes, safe on aluminum and plastics as well as SS).

Lastly, do your own research, oh mighty and wise home brewers. You may well find what Denny found, a home brewer I spoke with at the AHA NHC in Oakland in June whom had also been using a 'less oxpensive item' such as the one mentioned here:

"Jim encouraged me to try cleaning stuff with PBW that had been cleaned in ***** previously. I did that and have to tell you I am amazed with the results. One beer line I had with heavy beerstone I no longer used. Repeated ***** soaks hadn't cleaned it nor had other cleaners I tried. A 2-hour PBW soak and the line was completely clean and is now back in use! I also recleaned buckets I use for fermenters, which I had already been cleaning with ***** and looked clean to me, and I was amazed to see how brown the water was after cleaning."

Amazing what the right chelation and surfactants can do, eh?

:rockin:
 
Thanks for the input Jim. I've alwasy found PBW to be a superior product. I've used both Oxy Free and PBW. My fermenters come clean a lot quicker with PBW. I've had a few infections because of OxyClean not fully getting rid of the beerstone left from fermentation.
 
Oxi can be rinsed with hot water and then a dash of starsan to counter the alkali. At least that is what I think I heard.

PBW is better than OXI in my experience, but if you keep up on the cleaning, you probably won't need it.
 
Whether it's brewing or cooking, I love the 'designing recipes' part, I love brew/cook part...but I hate the cleanup! So PBW, while not cheap, is worth it to me.

The only reason I ever tried Starsan in the first place was purely to reduce all the rinsing I had to do with bleach. It was never because I couldn't get things sanitized...it was 100% about the rinsing.
 
"Jim Five Star
Junior Member"

"Products like the one mentioned and many others either have NO chelation or a very generic one not built for brewery chemistry"


this stinks of pure guerilla marketing by the makers of PBW. why wouldn’t he just mention the name of the product? Because advertisers are taught to be vague when they could be sued!

"Yes, this can make PBW a tad more pricey, or does it?"

He even has a TESTIMONIAL! from an actual
"mighty and wise home brewer"
(just like us!)
he asterisked out the other products name...


for the record I am finding this because I was going to soak my kegs in no name generic oxyclean overnight and also wanted to know if it will damage them.

Anyways I just wanted to point out that this thread was clearly astroturfed. I am going to try 1 keg first and see how it goes.
 
No, PBW is different---it's a caustic rather than an oxygen based cleaner. If you put an oxyclean solution into an aluminum kettle, it will turn dark gray from oxidation; pbw won't.

I thought the same, but it's not a caustic and it is an oxygen-based cleaner, ala oxyclean, but with an addition of Sodium metasilicate. This is directly from their site, and the MSDS does not list the percarbonate, probably due to proprietary blends. But the MSDS does list the Na metasilicate.

An Alkaline Non-caustic, Environmentally and User friendly CIP cleaner.

P.B.W. uses active oxygen to penetrate carbon or protein soils and is not effected by hard water
 
I thought the same, but it's not a caustic and it is an oxygen-based cleaner, ala oxyclean, but with an addition of Sodium metasilicate. This is directly from their site, and the MSDS does not list the percarbonate, probably due to proprietary blends. But the MSDS does list the Na metasilicate.

An Alkaline Non-caustic, Environmentally and User friendly CIP cleaner.

P.B.W. uses active oxygen to penetrate carbon or protein soils and is not effected by hard water

Soooo, you're saying we could mix Na metasilicate with oxyclean and make our own PBW like cleaner?
 
I've never used the UBC. It seems obvious to me that Oxi-clean is not as specifically designed for what we do as is PBW. I use PBW because 1), it's very effective, 2) our well water is loaded with dissolved minerals that will leave a white film on bottles, etc. if I use Oxi-clean, and 3) I spend enough money on brewing that I'm not going to attempt to cheap out on my cleaner.
 
I use the Sun brand Oxy cleaner. I think it works great and rinses easily. I do have really soft water though (about 35 TDS). The main reason I use the generic brand is the price difference. PBW is about 6 dollars more per pound than the Sun brand.
 
this stinks of pure guerilla marketing by the makers of PBW. why wouldn’t he just mention the name of the product? Because advertisers are taught to be vague when they could be sued!



He even has a TESTIMONIAL! from an actual (just like us!)
he asterisked out the other products name...


for the record I am finding this because I was going to soak my kegs in no name generic oxyclean overnight and also wanted to know if it will damage them.

Anyways I just wanted to point out that this thread was clearly astroturfed. I am going to try 1 keg first and see how it goes.

Did his name not give it away to you? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that it is obviously a comment from someone at Five Star, the makers of StarSan and PBW, and it should be no surprise nor should it detract from their reputation that they are active on brewing forums to answer the questions of the users and potential users of their products. Oxyclean can't claim that.
 
generic oxyclean called sun oxygen cleaner. 6 pound tub for the same price as a small box of the name brand stuff. find a dollar store and look in the laundry soap section
 
Since bleach is so cheap you should at lease consider trying it.
Bought by the 5 litres minimum from a swimming pool supply shop at around 1$ per litre. Or smaller quantity as household bleach from a supermarket.
With old bottles where there is often dried on crud you will definitely need to soak.
Getting the visible obvious crud off is by far the hardest part.
My personal solution:

1) Do an initial 2 hour full bottle soak in warm water. Then discard the contents.
2) Now add about 1 litre of hot water ( best at about 75- 80 Deg C) with dishwash detergent (enough for a decent foam) PLUS half a handful of fine gravel.
3) Swirl this around vigorously so that the gravel gets to dislodge the crud by abrasion. Sometimes necessary to set aside & allow a further 15 minute soak before repeating. ( Don't let the gravel down your sink waste).
4) Empty the dirty contents, you can wash the fine gravel for reuse or just get another half handful. At this stage we are still concentrating on removing the hard to get off crud.
5) Now visually check you bottles, a rinse out with cold water might be needed to clean out the odd bit of residual crud or gravel particle.
6) You should now have bottles fit for a final sanitisation by whatever is your preferred means, but that's where I use strong bleach. Just be dead sure to rinse out thoroughly & stand the bottles upside down to dry. Getting them dry is important.
Safety tip: BE WARNED bleach is aggressive it is important to take care. I strip down to my underpants, wear a plastic apron & safety specs. If the occasional spot of bleach is splashed on my skin I take care to immediately thoroughly wash off. If it gets on cotton shirts they will be holed!
7) You can now store your bottles for up to 4 to 6 weeks without any need to further sanitise, just bottle directly into your newly
added bottles. When storing it's common sense to keep the bottles upside down, standing on a laundered old towel, or clean paper or equivalent. You want to be sure insects can't access. ( I once found 60 bottles infested with black ants they took over in just 2 or 3 days).
Hope that helps, it works for me, but only suitable obviously for glass bottles.
 
I use Bar Keepers Friend for my stainless steel kettle. Obviously not going to work on the inside of bottles though. Its more of a rubbing cleaner than a soaking cleaner but it will take anything off. Even rust and discoloration from heat. It is also very cheap and can be used were PBW is not needed so you can save the expensive stuff.
 
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