Sour Apple Cider

So to follow up on the holiday cider I made is sour. I'm thinking it was the apple pie filling that I uses:


10 Cans Apple Juice Concentrate (5 gallons worth)
5 cinnamon sticks
6 cloves
2 oranges (zest only)
1 30oz can of easy pumpkin pie mix (pre-spiced pumpkin)
1 16oz can of apple pie mix
1/4 pound of honey
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/holiday-cider-79539/
Since the thing is very sour... what should I do? Is there any way to salvage this? Aging? It's been two weeks and i just racked it yesterday and snagged a taste. It's not sour like it has an infection. I also tossed in two more cinnamon sticks and 2 more cloves because it isn't very aromatic. Any ideas?

ScottUV said:

So to follow up on the holiday cider I made is sour. I'm thinking it was the apple pie filling that I uses:


10 Cans Apple Juice Concentrate (5 gallons worth)
5 cinnamon sticks
6 cloves
2 oranges (zest only)
1 30oz can of easy pumpkin pie mix (pre-spiced pumpkin)
1 16oz can of apple pie mix
1/4 pound of honey
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/holiday-cider-79539/
Since the thing is very sour... what should I do? Is there any way to salvage this? Aging? It's been two weeks and i just racked it yesterday and snagged a taste. It's not sour like it has an infection. I also tossed in two more cinnamon sticks and 2 more cloves because it isn't very aromatic. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Well, that sure is alot of cinnamon and cloves. I would do one or two cinnamon sticks total, but it's too late to take them out now!

As to sour, what happens when you take a sample out and sweeten it? You could do it with honey or sugar. If the sour taste goes away, it just means that the cider is too dry for your taste.

is it sour, or are you just tasting the crazy bite that all that cloves would leave after only 2 weeks? that much cloves would take months to mellow down

No, it's definitely sour. It tastes like a lemon or warhead candy or something. I would think that there was a lot of spice but that was my goal. But when I took a sample while i was racking it, it was simply not "spiced," unless the sourness simply takes over the spices. It's not dry like a wine. Is there anything to neutralize the citric acid flavor? I'd rather not back-sweeten as I was going to try to give it out during the holidays. Thanks for the responses

ScottUV said:

No, it's definitely sour. It tastes like a lemon or warhead candy or something. I would think that there was a lot of spice but that was my goal. But when I took a sample while i was racking it, it was simply not "spiced," unless the sourness simply takes over the spices. It's not dry like a wine. Is there anything to neutralize the citric acid flavor? I'd rather not back-sweeten as I was going to try to give it out during the holidays. Thanks for the responses

Click to expand...

The only thing I can think of to counteract sour is to sweeten. I don't quite understand why you don't want to sweeten it, but that's the only thing that occurs to me to help it.

I'm with Yooper... you might have to back sweeten.
Since it is so young try aging it for a few more weeks and see how it is with more time...

I didn't mean I don't want to sweeten it, I only mean that I'd rather find a better solution is all. I'd rather try to combat it directly by adding sodium bicarbonate or something. I'm hoping to not just mask the flavor with splenda or something. I appreciate all your help. I'm going to let it age.. hopefully it turns out well! Thanks

ScottUV said:

I didn't mean I don't want to sweeten it, I only mean that I'd rather find a better solution is all. I'd rather try to combat it directly by adding sodium bicarbonate or something. I'm hoping to not just mask the flavor with splenda or something. I appreciate all your help. I'm going to let it age.. hopefully it turns out well! Thanks

Click to expand...

Well, to me it's more "natural" to sweeten it with honey or sugar than to add bicarb to it. Of course, it's entirely up to you.

Aging will help it mellow out, but won't make it less tart.

This is a monster SG isnt it. The apple juice was made to the juice recipe or was it diluted. If it was made to order, then had the apple pie filling and the pumpkin pie filling( the pre spiced one which also has added sugar) Then this thing must be hot.
I am thinking that all this sourness is a combination or super cloves, really hot young alcohol, unspiced pumpkin( made my beer taste sour) and the apple pie filling.

Let it age for a while then try it . But if you wanted this for this holiday you started a little to late. You can always back sweeten(yes thats your best option as all the others have said) right before you bottle

What is the OG and the FG of this concoction, and how long did the primary fermentation last before you racked it?

Pogo

I don't own a hydrometer. This was the first apple cider I made and I figured 1 cinnamon stick and 1 clove per gallon wouldn't be too much. I don't know how good of quality the cloves and cinnamon were. I bought a bag of 8 or so cinnamon sticks from a hispanic market for about a dollar and the bag of 100 or so cloves for 1.50. Cheap spices combined with only sitting in there for two weeks may have resulted in the cider not being too hot from the spices.

Like I said... I know what young mead tastes like and I can tell the difference between sourness and "hotness." I'm not quite sure how sodium bicarbonate works, but would it eliminate citric acid flavor? I'm assuming it's from the apple pie filling because I know that the more tart the apples are, the better the pie ends up.

All that I know about sodium bicarbonate is that it neutralizes acid.

Whether this would also apply equally to the FLAVORS of acid, I have no idea.

I would let it age first.

Aging can/will do wonderful things to wine, even terrible wine!

Of course, while you're waiting, what would it hurt to at least test a few samples, before finally dosing the whole batch, should it ever come to that .

Pogo

This is coming from a newb, but just so you know Mead Hotness and a Cider's Youngness are quite different. Yes young ciders can be hot from alcohol, but there are definitely different flavors going on that take time to mellow in cider. I did not like my first batch much till it had time to mellow. I felt it was a bit sour.

If you really think it is an acidity thing, then get some ph paper and test it. Then if that is the case, use your sodium bicarbonate to neutralize the acids.

That said, I don't think its an acidity thing. And also FYI cider apples are quite similar to pie apples, they are both much more tart then traditional eating or even straight drinking apples.

Well I made this from plain apple juice. I'll take a sample and mix it with a tiny bit of sodium bicarbonate and see what happens. I'll let it age and I'll keep you updated! Thank you for all of your advice.