Help with American Cream Ale

A widow on my block gave me a Brewer's Best American Cream Ale extract kit to say thanks for clearing her driveway and walk from the 14 in of snow we had. I have not made an American Cream Ale before so I don't know how close it will resemble macro brews like Bud or Miller. The contents of the kit are below. She said that he bought this within the last 2 years but I cannot find any expiration dates. So I figured this is free and I might as well give it a shot.

Does anyone have recommendations of common grains I can steep prior to adding the extract in order to improve this recipe? The yeast packet was torn so I plan on using Cooper's dry brewing yeast (rehydrated with instructions from Palmer's book). If anyone has better dry or liquid yeast recommendations that would be great.

The kit is from Brewer's Best and is for their American Cream Ale:

3.3 lbs Light LME
2.0 lbs Light DME
1.5 oz Vanguard Hops (Bittering)
0.5 oz Vanguard Hops (Finishing @ 5 min.)


Thanks...

Mick

That was my first kit. I actually remember it coming with grains when I did it. Since that beer is going to be on light side, I think steeping 1/2 lb of Crystal 10 would be a good addition.

Also, Nottingham is a great dry yeast if you would like to improve from Coopers.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out!

How many grams or packets of the Nottingham yeast would be needed? The addition of 1/2 lb of Crystal 10 sounds promising. The SG is 1.040-1.055 and the FG is 1.008-1.012 with hop IBUs of 18-22.

I think some carapils would be good as well. and if you decide to to mash anything, you should use 6-row with some corn.

So use both carapils and Crystal 10 or just one of these for steeping? I am not familiar with carapils...is it an easy malt grain to steep? How much would I use? Is there a macrobeer that has this flavor?

Sorry to ask so many questions but my curiosity beckons..

I forgot you weren't mashing. Here's a link to a previous thread on steeping carapils, I think you can steep it and the crystal 10, but you won't get as much sugar (=alcohol) from them by steeping:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/carafoam-carapils-maltodextrine-5790/

A budweiser is probably as close to this as any that you can easily find, but it's still pretty different. If you like Budweiser (and beer), you should still be able to struggle through this even if you have no desire to drink anything other than bud (but you're n here, so I doubt that)

It looks like you're going to be brewing a 5G batch? To keep it as simple as possible, You could use 0.5# of each and get some flavor, however, this will throw off the hops provided. Maybe use them at 15 instead of 5 min, but you'd probably want to calculate that out.

One packet of yeast will do the trick. I prefer to rehydrate and get the yeast started early even with dry yeast.

This will be a 5 gal batch. I do have a 5 gal rubbermaid cooler that I can use to do a partial mash but I'll have to read a bit more to see how that is done. What I hope to do with this beer is make something that is different than a Bud or Coors clone. I was thinking of 2-3 weeks in the primary and then 2 weeks in the secondary.

Thanks for the feedback...

Mick

Both are pretty similar actually. The carapils will provide body mouthfeel and help with head retention without adding sweetness. The crystsal 10 will do all that and add a bit of sweetness and a tad of color.

I've never used crystal 10 but I've used carapils/carafoam/dextrin malt in lots of recipies apa, hefe, cream ales.

I've been working on and researching an American Cream Ale Recipe. I'm steeping CaraPils, Six Row and Flaked Corn. I'm also using Wyeast 1056 American Ale, but White Labs makes a Cream Ale Blend as well. If you go with the White Labs Strains, watch your ferm. temps, it is a blend of both lager and ale yeasts. Best of luck!

If you want to stick with dry yeast. S-05 is the dry version of 1056.

Mashing is not really that complicated. It's like steeping except you use a lower temp (150-155) and then must thoroughly rinse the grains to get all the converted sugar out. You could get a grain bag, heat water in your brew pot to 160 or so then put your grain in the grain bag and toss it in the pot for an hour or so. It would be best to rinse the bed with 170-175 water, but it's not required, you just won't get as much sugar.

I also prefer 3-4 weeks in the primary, but no more than 4 weeks and 2 weeks of bottle conditioning.

Using Carapils, crystal 10, and/or maize and brewing this beer yourself will make it different than Bud from the start.

Man...with all of this advice I am definitely going to try the partial mash route. I am thinking about 1/2 lb Carapils, 1/2 lb crystal 10 and some flaked corn. Not sure how much flaked corn to use though so any recommendation would be appreciated.

Two final questions: 1. How much water per lbs of grain is used in the initial partial mash (I recall hearing about 1 gal per pounds) and how much water should I use for sparging/rinsing?

If this turns out well I am definitley going to try a few brews w/o prepackaged kits for a change.

Thanks...

Mick

We're throwing around mashing and steeping terms interchangeably here. Keep in mind that you're only mashing if you're using grains that will convert to fermentable sugars, and if you have a base grain with diastastic power to convert them.

In short, you steep crystal grains. That's not mashing. If you want to use some corn, you will need to add a pound of base grains like 2-row or 6-row to convert the corn. That's not a bad idea, but I think we're overcomplicating a recipe that came with some older extract and may not be that great.

If it were me, the most I'd do to that Brewer's Best kit is to steep some crystal 10L (maybe half a pound) at 150-160 degrees. Otherwise, I'd leave that recipe alone.

There are some nice cream ale recipes around that you can find if you'd like a different one. I think the best commercial cream ale I've had is Genessee Cream Ale.

msa8967 said:

Man...with all of this advice I am definitely going to try the partial mash route. I am thinking about 1/2 lb Carapils, 1/2 lb crystal 10 and some flaked corn. Not sure how much flaked corn to use though so any recommendation would be appreciated.

Two final questions: 1. How much water per lbs of grain is used in the initial partial mash (I recall hearing about 1 gal per pounds) and how much water should I use for sparging/rinsing?

If this turns out well I am definitley going to try a few brews w/o prepackaged kits for a change.

Thanks...

Mick

Click to expand...

If you want to do this, you can use 1/2 pound carapils, 1/2 pound crystal 10L, 1 pound flaked corn, and 2 pounds pale malt.

You will want to put that loosely into a grainbag. And then mash it at 150-155 for an hour in 6 quarts of water. You may want the water at 165 before you add the grains since the grains will reduce the temperature. Stir well to make sure all of the grains are wetted thoroughly and check the temperature to make sure it's in the range of 150-155. When you're done with the mash, you can lift the grain bag out, and pour 170 degree water over it to "rinse" the sugars out. You can use up to 3 gallons of water to "rinse" (sparge) with.

YooperBrew said:

If you want to do this, you can use 1/2 pound carapils, 1/2 pound crystal 10L, 1 pound flaked corn, and 2 pounds pale malt.

You will want to put that loosely into a grainbag. And then mash it at 150-155 for an hour in 6 quarts of water. You may want the water at 165 before you add the grains since the grains will reduce the temperature. Stir well to make sure all of the grains are wetted thoroughly and check the temperature to make sure it's in the range of 150-155. When you're done with the mash, you can lift the grain bag out, and pour 170 degree water over it to "rinse" the sugars out. You can use up to 3 gallons of water to "rinse" (sparge) with.

Click to expand...

I was able to find the the carapils, crystal 10, flaked corn and the pale malt today by hitting several different liqour stores that carry some brewing supplies. [There is no LHBS within 90 miles of where I live.] The carapils and crystal 10 came in 1 lbs packages and I wanted to know if I should use the entire contents or save 1/2 for soemthing else (although I would need to ask what that something else might be to benefit from these.) I have a brewing bucket where I can do up to 6 gallon batches and I would like to know if I should expand this recipe to 6 gal or stick with 5 gal? Will the addition of this partial mash change the OG significantly?

The kit came with Vangard hops for bittering and aroma. I tried to find more of these hops in case I could raise this to 6 gal but none of the liqour stores carry this type. I will try to see if there is a substitute mentioned online. For the partial mash I was thinking of splitting the grains between two large bags just to make sure that there is enough room to adjust for grain swelling.

Yooper- I was able to find a six-pack of Genesse Cream Ale today (evidently it is not easy to find here in Iowa) and think this is a beer I enjoy much more than most macrobrew ales/lagers including Bud, PBR and Coors. Thanks for the recommendation.

mick, did you get those grains crushed? if not, you'll need to put them in a bag and run them over with a rolling pin or something to get them crushed. you might be able to scale up to 6 gallons depending on how much malt you end up mashing... 2# of pale, 0.5# of crystal, 1# flaked corn, and 0.25# of carapils could add like 2-3% ABV if my math is correct (i personally wouldn't use much more of any of those, the flavor may be too much from the crystal/corn and i don't ever see carapils used in amounts more than .25-.5 lbs.) so, if you want to maintain a similar SG to what the recipe probably was designed for, 6 gallons should be fine.

Yep..the grains were crushed. Sounds good to take your advice on using only up to 0.5 lbs of carapils. It is easy to get carried away with wanting to try to adjust this kit. I don't have any experience using the Vangard hops that came with this free kit and I don't know how old the hops might be. Do you know of a good hop to try to use for American Cream Ales..?

Thanks Again,

Mick

vangard is a domestic hallertau replacement. Most cream ales (and american lagers) will either use an old domestic variety like cluster or noble varieties or similar.

I use hallertau.

I am new to brewing and just made my first batch which was BB American Cream Ale. It doesn't taste anything like Bud or Miller. It taste more like Fat Tire to me. It seems to be a very light beer but I like it. Being new to this hobby, I made it per the directions and I think it came out ok.
BTW, I live in CR so if you want to try a bottle, let me know.

even though the grain bill is similar to an american lager, the use of ale yeast here is what separates it and gives it more character, depending on what temp you ferment it at. it can be fermented low and have less ale esters and seem more like a lager. regardless, it makes a very drinkable and tasty beer. +1 to using hallertau on this recipe if you need more hops, you can use them with the vanguard, no problem. i've been really happy with hallertau in my cream ale.