Maybe I don't like Marris Otter?

I have two kegs in the fridge now with IPA's that I don't like much. One was all MO for the base malt, and the other is 50% MO, with 15% rye. I thought that the 100% had a mild phenolic taste, a bit of cloves. However several people really like it and don't detect the clove thing at all. The 50% MO doesn't have a clove taste, but to me its a bit off (my beer tasting vocabulary is pretty limited).
I have had some quite malty APAs and IPAs, for example UINTA Angler's Pale Ale is quite malty, and I would not say that the taste I'm experiencing would be described as malty.
Anyway, I realize that the above information is next to useless, but wonder if anyone has any thoughts on MO contributing particularly unique, and especially clove-like, flavors.

clove sounds like it might be more yeast driven IMO

I agree- "clove" sounds like a yeast flavor, or a flavor from chlorinated water. It could be from a spicy hops variety, too, but not as likely.

MO tastes sort of bread-like, in a way, "warmer" than regular two row, but very similar.

MO should not give you cloves, I think this is a fermentation issue.

higher than optimal fermentation temperatures can also lead to what we often call estery flavors, which you might be tasting, also. What yeast did you use and what temperature did you ferment at?

We all make beers that turn out not as good as we had imagined - yesterday, I just tasted a big, huge Bier de Gaarde that I've had bottle conditioning for months and its still not good - maybe never will be, who knows. It happens.

Clove aside, I don't think I'd use much MO in an IPA.

Just dumped a 4-year old barleywine. It was fine last Spring, but since then developed a gusher infection. Major disappointment.

Thanks all for the feedback. Certainly I had in mind that the off-taste (if it really is an off-taste vs just a personal preference) could be a yeast issue.

However fermenting conditions (basement @ 65 F ambient, US05 yeast) were similar to other batches that I like much better, so was focusing on the only obvious difference, namely use of MO, as an issue.

Unfortunately my analytical tasting and descriptive skills are really quite weak, so was just wondering more generally if anyone had experienced a taste they didn't like, not necessarily a defect (phenols, esters), with MO.

David_42 - why not use MO in an IPA?

That's a pisser about your barleywine. I assume it was in bottles? Weird that it would be good for 3.5 years, but not 4.

Maris Otter is a fine malt to use for IPA's. It is more of an matter of personal taste. I think the winners of NHC Cat.14 the past 4yrs would also agree.

2006
2007
2008
2009

I just tapped a Rye ESB last night and I get that same clove flavor. I assume it's from the rye but I also used MO. I used WLP002 so I don't think it's from the yeast. It tastes OK just not what I expected...

I love rye in beers, but it's "spicy" tasting. Some people don't like it at all.

carp said:

(my beer tasting vocabulary is pretty limited).

Click to expand...

I think you did a pretty good job describing the taste, but if you'd like to really get a hang of what words to use when, I would say pick up Randy Mosher's book "Tasting Beer" http://www.amazon.com/Tasting-Beer-Insiders-Worlds-Greatest/dp/1603420894/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260728124&sr=8-1 It is a great guide, and does an excellent job of outlining vocabulary. Certainly worth the money in my opinion.

I really like rye as well, both in commercial brews and in several of my own batches. I'm quite sure that the rye is not the source of the taste I'm observing.

Poohah, re the statement 'I used WLP002 so I don't think it's from the yeast', my understanding (which is admittedly very very limited) is that some of these weird flavors - phenol, estery - can often arise from very clean yeast such as US05, WLP001 and WLP002, as result of less-than-optimal conditions such as too warm, too cool (?), underpitching, etc. So I would not rule out yeast/fermentation conditions as the source. How much MO did you use?

Cford thanks for the book recommendation - I'll look into it. I guess I mispoke a bit though - I'm getting relatively familiar with the vocabulary, its more a matter of applying it correctly to the sensations in my mouth. I have recognized band-aid in my first brew (I dumped it), and the clove in the batch under discussion is moderately obvious. I think I'm getting a good handle on 'malty'. Regarding rye, I have like the beers I've tasted that contain it, but I have a hard time identifying the 'spiciness' that is often attributed to it. Regarding hops I have a hard time distinguishing between e.g. piney vs floral, and I think I still confuse hop flavor with basic bitterness.

I should have posted this earlier, but here is the recipe for the batch in question:

Size: 11.5 gal
Efficiency: 92.0%
Original Gravity: 1.070
Terminal Gravity: 1.020
Color: 14.31 (6.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 6.61% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 45.0 (40.0 - 70.0)

Ingredients:
22.0 lb Maris Otter
1.0 lb 2-Row Caramel Malt 40L
1.5 lb 2-Row Caramel Malt 80L
0.0 tbsp 5.2 pH Stabilizer - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
1 oz Amarillo (8.0%) - added first wort, boiled 20 min
0.5 oz Magnum (12.1%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Cascade (7.6%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
1 oz Centennial (11.2%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
1 oz Willamette (5.6%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 oz Centennial (11.2%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
1 oz Cascade (7.6%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
1.0 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
1 oz Willamette (5.6%) - steeped after boil
1.0 oz Centennial (11.2%) - steeped after boil
1.0 oz Cascade (7.6%) - steeped after boil