to clarify, i used yeast harvested from my own bottles... wlp001. the only alternative was a 5g pack of muntuns....i now have a good supply of starter. after my last runnings, i added another gallon to the tun while i was doing my boil, and drained that off into a sauce pan, and boiled it down to 1.038, divided it, and froze. now i can thaw it, and make a starter any time i want to. we will see if it actually works.