PM difference?

I know this has been asked probably 100 times and for that i apologize. I have been reading around and trying to find out more about partial mash but it is kinda hard to find material on the process. From what i gather, it seems almost like extract just using less extract and more grains and you steep the grains longer? Is that pretty much the gist of it? And if it is, when i order a kit from say AHS, what would be the difference in end product between getting the extract kit and the mini-mash kit? Or is pm mainly meant for experimenting around with your own brew?

Yes, you steep grains, but in a partial mash, you use a small amount of base malt with diastatic power (2-row, pilsner, munich, etc.). Grains like munich need to be converted in order to get the full effect of the grain, which is different than grains such as crystal malts.

More grain, less extract = better beer. I posted come video up in AG/PM over the weekend. If you got extract gear and a good sized kettle, plus seven dollars for a grain bag, you can kick it up a notch.

So the process as far as the boil is pretty much the same as extract except you will just steep the grains longer (and of course there will be more grains)? Sorry if i'm sounding redundant.

Just bought the grain bag over the weekend along with everything else i need to be set on brewing for a very long time (bottle tree, jet washer, stuff like that). So maybe i might have to step up to pm if it really isn't all that different.

Actually, the process is very much the same. The difference is in the combination of grains. If you have just crystal, for example, you will not have a mash. But if you have Biscuit malt, crystal, and some 2-row, and steep that at 150 for 60 minutes (keeping it at 150 the whole time), then you have a mash.

You pull out the grains and then proceed the same way. There are a few other "little things" to do (like rinse the grains with 168 degree water) but that's basically about it.

There's almost no difference between extract with steeping grains and PM. The grains differ a little, and you have to be a little more careful with temperature.

EDIT: Yooper's just too quick.

Cool. Is there a write up somewhere about the specific process? Well, if i order a mini-mash kit from AHS it should have the exact directions for it right? I looked in "How to Brew" and couldn't find anything on pm. It just talks about extract and AG brewing.

Quickie writeup:

When steeping grains, focus on maintaining your steep temp between 140-159°F.

Those are mash temps. When you can maintain "Mash" temps while "steeping" grain, you are ready to put real base malt with enzymatic power in your "steep" tun and preform a mini "mash".

Got a thermometer?

Yeah i have all that. But what was it about pouring water on the grains?

If you order the AHS PM kit, it has perfect instructions. My first PM was Pete's Wicked Clone from them, and it worked great!

Cool, i will do that! Just ordered a kit from them yesterday (Chocolate Raspberry Stout) but maybe i can give them a call and change it to PM before they ship it out. Just a shame i didn't order my Rochefort 10 clone kit from them as a PM. Thanks for all the help guys! I know i ask a lot of questions around here but i really appreciate the help!

Asking questions is no problem- that's what we're here for!

mullimat said:

Yeah i have all that. But what was it about pouring water on the grains?

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If I had poured 170° sparge water on my grains I coulda let it soak longer and gotten higher efficiency. Instead my sparge water was too hot so I pulled the grain right as I was getting astringent taste and earned lower efficiency for it.

mullimat said:

Thanks for all the help guys! I know i ask a lot of questions around here but i really appreciate the help!

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This site isn'ty lik the rest of the intrawebbzorr. We want you to make really really good beer.

not only is temperature important (150-160F) for mashing, but the amount of water is important. your water should be 1-1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain.

after you mash and sparge with 170F water, toss the grains and add the water to your stock pot for boiling.

then heat, add extract and start your boil.

Thanks for posting this question. I've been trying to figure out if I want to try PM. Just made extract batch # 3 on Sunday. Trying to get enough supply on hand to last a couple months. This is much more of a challenge than I thought it would be.

My next beer will be an Oktoberfest and I've been looking at the AHS Oktoberfest kit trying to decide between mini-mash and extract. I want a bit more influence over the beer than extract has given me.

After reading all this topic, the mini-mash wins.

Dan

Poindexter said:

I posted come video up in AG/PM over the weekend.

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I think I know what you meant to say, but this does not read well.

Bobby_M said:

http://byo.com/feature/1536.html

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thanks for the link.

good to hear that you can use an unmodified cooler for PM.

I've done 3 extract batches now, but I eventually want to work my way up to all-grain, but want to do PM first.

I think i might be able to pull this off now..lol I was about to order the Bell's Two-Hearted clone kit in an extract version, but now the mini-mash version is sounding tempting..lol

How big of a kettle do you need? Is 7gallon big enough for a 5gallon batch?

7g is probably a bit on the small side for a 5g batch. but PM doesn't need you to do a full boil, most of the time you'd be boiling 2.5-3g, and with a 7g kettle that's no problem at all (assuming you have enough heating power).

cd2448 said:

7g is probably a bit on the small side for a 5g batch. but PM doesn't need you to do a full boil, most of the time you'd be boiling 2.5-3g, and with a 7g kettle that's no problem at all (assuming you have enough heating power).

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ah ok. i guess i read/looked at it wrong.

I've done a 4g boil on my stove top with my 5g pot, but it took awhile and was a bit cramped after adding the LME..lol

If PM is only 3g, i'm sure I could use either the 5g of 7g pot and it should work out fine.

thanks. now i'm wanting to order this kit up

the kit will have full instructions, will tell you how much water to boil etc.you should be fine!

thanks man.

one last question.. i noticed in the BYO link, that it recommended a 2-3g cooler.

What if the cooler is a tad larger? I have a square cooler, so it doesnt have to larger of a base, but I believe its atleast 5g+ in size. Would this work, or is that to much space and the water level won't be high enough? Maybe it would be best to just drop $20 a buy a small cooler..?? (would rather not if i don't have to since i'd rather save that money towards the AG conversion)

riored4v said:

thanks man.

one last question.. i noticed in the BYO link, that it recommended a 2-3g cooler.

What if the cooler is a tad larger? I have a square cooler, so it doesnt have to larger of a base, but I believe its atleast 5g+ in size. Would this work, or is that to much space and the water level won't be high enough? Maybe it would be best to just drop $20 a buy a small cooler..?? (would rather not if i don't have to since i'd rather save that money towards the AG conversion)

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Well I found the 10 dollar kmart 2 gallon cooler worked perfectly for me on sunday for a PM with 3 1/4 pounds of grain.

I did something that I found on another site though, as a refinement. I bought a collapsible steamer like this;



After removing the top piece of metal I placed in tin the bottom of the cooler, then set my grainback on top of it and rubberbanded it around the lip of the cooler. The strainer lifted the grain above the spigot. ANd I got no stuck sparges like he talked about in the article.

Revvy said:

Well I found the 10 dollar kmart 2 gallon cooler worked perfectly for me on sunday for a PM with 3 1/4 pounds of grain.

I did something that I found on another site though, as a refinement. I bought a collapsible steamer like this;

After removing the top piece of metal I placed in tin the bottom of the cooler, then set my grainback on top of it and rubberbanded it around the lip of the cooler. The strainer lifted the grain above the spigot. ANd I got no stuck sparges like he talked about in the article.

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You think it may be worth it then to spend the $20 or to pick up a small 2-3 gallon cooler and a strainer like the one above if I plan on doing a few PM?

I guess in the excitement i didn't really think about stuck sparges, but i've heard/read about the hassle they can create and i'd like to avoid it if possible.

riored4v said:

You think it may be worth it then to spend the $20 or to pick up a small 2-3 gallon cooler and a strainer like the one above if I plan on doing a few PM?

I guess in the excitement i didn't really think about stuck sparges, but i've heard/read about the hassle they can create and i'd like to avoid it if possible.

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Well for me I'm not able to do AG full boils, and may not unless I move out of my loft to someplace with a yard, so I found the 10 dollars, plus 6 got the steamer a good investment.... In retrospect if I had bought a 3 or 5gallon cooler I could up the grainbill, but there is then a storage issue (I only have 2 closests in the whole place.)

If you go with a steamer and a large enough grainbag (or a nylon mesh paint strainer bag, that can fit over the lip of the cooler, then you could use any size cooler... So I guess it's up to you.

Thanks Revvy.

I'll look into it a bit more. I might just kill some time at lunch and head over to home depot and see what they have for coolers and paint strainers.

I emailed AHS regarding the cooler and whatnot, and they mentioned that with their kits, using a mash-tun isn't necessary and i could get away with using a strainer/colander, but to me, the i would think the mash-tun version might produce a better beer. but then i'm a newb with this stuff, so i could be very wrong.

Anyways, thanks again. I'm 99% positive that i'll still be going this route, i just need to line up the misc items to make it happen.