Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

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normonster said:
Strange. My recipe says 4oz of 60L.
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It's from the MoreBeer! kit recipe.

Not sure there's chinook in there though?

I'm eventually going to try to use all the hops they use -- from the brew sheet someone posted earlier it's:

Edit: here's my new extract version

- 6 oz of crystal 40L @steep until 165*F (if you hit 165 before 30 min, turn off heat and let steep for 30 min. If you don't hit it within 30 min, heat until 165 is reached)
- Warrior @90 min (0.25oz)
- CTZ @90 min (0.75oz)
- 3 lbs LME @60 min
- 8 oz maltodextrin
- Amarillo extract @45 min (hop shot)
- Simcoe @30 min (2 oz)
- 6 lbs LME @15 min
- 0.5 lb Light DME
- 1 lb Corn sugar @10 min
- Cascade @WP (1.5oz)
- Centennial @WP (1.5 oz)
- Simcoe @WP (1.5 oz)
- Amarillo @WP (1.5 oz)
- Simcoe @day 8 dry hop (2 oz)
- Cascade @day 8 dry hop (1.75 oz)
- CTZ @day 8 dry hop (1 oz)
- Simcoe @day 11 dry hop (2 oz)
- Cascade @day 11 dry hop (1.5 oz)
- Amarillo @day 11 dry hop (0.75 oz)
- CTZ @day 11 dry hop (0.75 oz)

Edit: These are very rough guesses for the amounts, but it sounds amazing to me to have around 19 oz of hops for 5.5-6 gal of beer haha
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1442434772.718055.jpg

Still not sure if the dry hopping schedule is talking about days after pitching the yeast or after fermentation ends. My guess would be from pitching since Pliny is always fresh tasting
 
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Resonator said:
View attachment 303600

So I'm pretty sure my dark color came from adding all of the malt extract at the beginning of the 90 min boil causing it to caramelize and darken. Next time I'm just going to add the LME at 15 min left in the boil to try and keep it lighter.
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Res, you're probably right, good call.

So been reading up on hop oils. My next batch will have bittering mostly from FWHs. Very little, if any, hops until whirlpool. But the main change will be with adding the late addition aromatic hops not until temp is below 140F. Myrcene oil, the aromatic oil, quickly volatilize above 147f. So basically a bittering, 180F, and 140F addition. During dry hopping for 6 days, all hops 1 addition, i'll CO2 rouse in day 3.
 
I lightened this up for anyone to use if needed

PTE Brew Sheet.jpg
 
PianoMan said:
Res, you're probably right, good call.

So been reading up on hop oils. My next batch will have bittering mostly from FWHs. Very little, if any, hops until whirlpool. But the main change will be with adding the late addition aromatic hops not until temp is below 140F. Myrcene oil, the aromatic oil, quickly volatilize above 147f. So basically a bittering, 180F, and 140F addition. During dry hopping for 6 days, all hops 1 addition, i'll CO2 rouse in day 3.
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Yea most of the additions are WP or dry hop. The hops @ 90 min are bittering, and the 45 min, and 30 min are flavor. The 45 and 30 help fill out the middle ground of taste I think.

normonster said:
Yes Sir, about 10 blocks from Russian River Brewing. Raining pretty good right now. Hope it helps with that huge fire we have going.
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I really need to go up there on a Sunday for all day happy hour haha
 
Interesting. My recipe is from that 100 Clones BYO magazine but they say it came straight from Vinnie's beer-chute. It has come out really well the couple times I did it....Blind Pig on the other hand....nasty stuff right there.
 
normonster said:
Interesting. My recipe is from that 100 Clones BYO magazine but they say it came straight from Vinnie's beer-chute. It has come out really well the couple times I did it....Blind Pig on the other hand....nasty stuff right there.
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When was it from? Could be changes in hops to accommodate for the AA% differences between the hops year to year.
 
PianoMan said:
Well here's my calculations based on an extract utilization formula I found...GramsExtract=(IBU*hectoliters@End of boil)/(.35*10). Solved for IBU =(53), then added Warrior, in Beersmith 2, until IBU was achieved.

Used Beersmith2 with 62% efficiency at 5.8 gallons to fermenter with 90min boil. Don't see how the 70IBU in posted recipe sheet is possible with these amount of hops.

Other hops/grain bill were a simple calculation; 1300gallons/5.8gallons=224-factor so CTZ at 90min for example is 7*16/224=.5oz.

10.25gallons total.
5.75 strike

OG=1.072
IBU= 170
SRM=6.1
ABV=7.8%

Rahr = 17.1 lbs
c60 = 4.6oz (edit.. from lbs)
Corn Sugar = 14.4 oz

Warrior @ 90min = 1.1oz
CTZ @ 90min = .5oz

Amarillo @ 45min= .6oz

Simcoe @ 30min = 1.4oz

Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe @ WPool for 20min = 1oz each

Dry Hopping (Wasn't sure the days so just have dry hopping at 5 days each)
Dry1:
Simcoe = 1.6oz
Cascade = 1.25oz
CTZ = .70oz

Dry2:
Simcoe = 1.4oz
Cascade= 1.0oz
Amarillo/CTZ = .5oz each

Anyone else??

Edit: added extract formula found and recalculated to End of Boil volume. Also this is about 14oz of hops, my other calculation, using a smaller factor, make it around 22oz, and the grain bill would be way high.
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All, here's the 5gallon version.
 
normonster said:
Yes Sir, about 10 blocks from Russian River Brewing. Raining pretty good right now. Hope it helps with that huge fire we have going.
Click to expand...

That huge Ridge fire?? a couple years ago came about 4 miles away from the high school I graduated from in Toulumne. Shouldn't be much left in Ca to burn. Here in Central Texas, we just have rednecks to deal with..😉
 
Resonator said:
When was it from? Could be changes in hops to accommodate for the AA% differences between the hops year to year.
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That's a good point and until recently I totally paid no attention to AA. Then I bought a couple pounds of Cascade and saw that BS has it defaulted at like 5% but mine are like 7.0%.

Bought the mag about a year ago but not sure of publication date...was at Great Fermentations in Napa CA.
 
PianoMan said:
That huge Ridge fire?? a couple years ago came about 4 miles away from the high school I graduated from in Toulumne. Shouldn't be much left in Ca to burn. Here in Central Texas, we just have rednecks to deal with..[emoji6]
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Yeah, that's the one. Got a lot of ppl's homes and a lot of horses/animals. Many ppl from my company were affected. Bummer of a story. We all have our fingers crossed about El Niño this year....we need it bad.

We have some nicely populated redneck zones as well but I'll give you the all-time RN respect the Big T deserves....lol.
 
PianoMan said:
Res, you're probably right, good call.

So been reading up on hop oils. My next batch will have bittering mostly from FWHs. Very little, if any, hops until whirlpool. But the main change will be with adding the late addition aromatic hops not until temp is below 140F. Myrcene oil, the aromatic oil, quickly volatilize above 147f. So basically a bittering, 180F, and 140F addition. During dry hopping for 6 days, all hops 1 addition, i'll CO2 rouse in day 3.
Click to expand...

You're going to like that strategy! I used it when I brewed my Zombie Dust clone and it's easily the best, juiciest tasting beer I've brewed. Lots of hop flavor and aroma, with just the right amount of bittering.
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1442441856.632796.jpg
Any suggestions for the dry hopping schedule with my remaining hops? Was thinking of splitting it into two additions, but didn't know if I should add the high alpha hops first or second. My gut says second, but not sure.

This is for my heatwave batch of PTE (got up to 88*F in fermenter) it gives me a little heartburn sting like SNPA does sometimes. I'm guessing it's the esters and ethanol that were produced. Flavor didn't suffer too much though. Hopefully dry hopping will help at these cooler temps.

Anyways I was thinking of adding Amarillo, Simcoe, and centennial tomorrow and then adding the Columbus three days later -- any thoughts?
 
PianoMan said:
My new BFF arrived tonight. Only had 1 before, about a year ago, don't remember the smoke flavor..[emoji6]

Edit: i know it's been over a year, but my memory recalls more floral then this. Kind of grassy..salty..
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Smoke flavor? It's usually citrusy and floral.

Were they kept cold?
 
California...fires...smoke...apparently a failed attempt at a joke.

Even my bff says this is a different flavor. No floral and little citrus in this batch. More like a New Belgium Ranger...oh well.
 
PianoMan said:
California...fires...smoke...apparently a failed attempt at a joke.

Even my bff says this is a different flavor. No floral and little citrus in this batch. More like a New Belgium Ranger...oh well.
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Ahh I see.

If they got too warm they could have lost some of the hop intensity though.
 
Thinking about brewing this soon. Is it really necessary to do a full 14 days dry hop with two separate dry hops? I was thinking of just doing 5 days then 3 days for the last bit. Any thoughts?
 
arbadarchi said:
Thinking about brewing this soon. Is it really necessary to do a full 14 days dry hop with two separate dry hops? I was thinking of just doing 5 days then 3 days for the last bit. Any thoughts?
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Great question! Wondering myself. According to an Oregon State study, less then 1.

http://inhoppursuit.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-aroma-oil-faster-dry-hopsters-holy.html?m=1

Edit: after more looking, have seen other studies show about 4-6hrs..yes hours..shows maximum hop oil extraction, for pellets. For whole cone, extraction is more difficult so in the order of days. This has completely changed my way thinking for dry hopping.

In addition, I've experimented with dry hopping in primary with no adverse effects. Came across research stated some pros will dry hop while fermentation still taking place to keep O2 out..the #1 hop killer. Can't WAIT for my next hoppy brew. Looking at 5 days total. 4.5days fermentation and .5days dry hop, then keg!

Along with hop addition changes I stated earlier during boil/cool down.
 
After the hop research, here's my first recipe attempt..

PTE - Hop Schedule Modified Recipe v1.0
-----------------------------------------------------
Typical Mash 75min@151F/MO 10min@168F.
IBU - 165
ABV - 8% @ 62%eff
Beersmith set up for 6.0 gals to fermenter, but probably only end up kegging like 4.5 in the end.

----- FERMENTABLES -------
Boil 90min.
2row - 17.75lbs
60L - .25lbs
Corn Sugar - 1lbs

---- BOIL HOPS ------------
Columbus - 2oz @FWH

Simcoe - 1.4oz @5min
Amarillo - .6oz @ 5min

------ WHIRLPOOL HOPS ------
Ice Bath until 180F achieved, then pull from bath.
Simcoe - .75oz @ 180F
Cascade - .5oz @ 180F
Centennial- .5oz @180F
Amarillo - .5oz @180F

Now wait until temp hits 140F.
Simcoe - .75oz @ 140F
Cascade - .5oz @ 140F
Centennial- .5oz @140F
Amarillo - .5oz @140F
Re-submerge into Ice bath.

--------- YEAST ---------------
2pkg Safale05. Ferment for 14 days. (edit from original plan of 4.5days, seems diacetyls are a real concern.)
Use typical fermentation temp control: 65,61,61,63,65,67, room temp. (each number representing a day)

------- DRY HOPS --------------
Add to primary fermenter, dry hop for 1 day while cold crashing at same time. (since so many hops, decided for 24hrs instead of 12..)
Simcoe - 3oz
Cascade - 2.25oz
Columbas - 1.1oz
Amarillo - .5oz
--------------------------------

It's going to be a month or 6 weeks before I do this, so may research for more floral/citrus flavoring...but this is the jest of it.
Edit 1: for spelling/additional wort...

Edit 2: As I keep pondering the hop oxidation issue. It almost seems illogical to add flavoring/aroma hops at all during whirlpool. My technique for oxygenating the wort prior to fermentation is to do a few dump transfers between buckets. Good for yeast, bad for hops. What if all whirlpool hops became dry hops for a total of about 11.5oz dry hops??

Edit 3: This current PTE (not the recipe above) slowly showing a very slight buttery flavor, *diacetyl*. My impatiences failed me this time, the beer was fermented for only 8 days and noticeable CO2 bubbles were still occurring when racking to secondary. Went back through logs and all DIPAs with the "AWESOME!" label, were fermented for at least 13 days, transferred to secondary and dry hopped about 12 days with a single stage dry hop. Possibly chasing a proverbial ghost here...
 
I mash in a voile bag (curtain material - very fine) and a 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler. A giant grain bag (think brewing tea) keeps the wort clean. Never had a stuck mash this way.

I use a Corona type mill and crush (destroy) the grain very fine - lots of flour.

My last batch of PTE came in at 1.079 with a target of 1.072 and estimated efficiency at 75%. If BS is right, 1.079 was is approximately 83%. This with 13 pounds of two row, 1 pound of dextrose, and 6 ounces of C-60.

The Corona and voile bag works well for me.
 
ultravista said:
I mash in a voile bag (curtain material - very fine) and a 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler. A giant grain bag (think brewing tea) keeps the wort clean. Never had a stuck mash this way.

I use a Corona type mill and crush (destroy) the grain very fine - lots of flour.

My last batch of PTE came in at 1.079 with a target of 1.072 and estimated efficiency at 75%. If BS is right, 1.079 was is approximately 83%. This with 13 pounds of two row, 1 pound of dextrose, and 6 ounces of C-60.

The Corona and voile bag works well for me.
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I bet it's the mill. My LHBS does the milling. Had them 2x mill, one time, a stout and eff jumped 5% alone. Searching the voile bags, seem popular.
 
PianoMan said:
Those hops are there for a reason. Trust the recipe. I'd recommend doing original recipes 1st then tweaking. It is a bitter hop bomb at first, but after a few weeks becomes golden heaven.
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I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.
 
gunmetal said:
I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.
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The only way to get Pliny in ohio is to know the right people but I assure you, it is around. I can attest to the hops being a lot more complex when the beer is fresh.
 
gunmetal said:
I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.
Click to expand...

Nothing like a successful PTE! Congratulations! I'm in experimental land so anyone's guess..
 
So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

I understand why people think it's so great, the execution is great... You are hit with bitter yet smooth piney hops and it fades fast, however I'm finding I wish it had a touch more malty finish. I'm wondering if i might enjoy it better with us04 or something that will finish less dry?
 
arbadarchi said:
So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

I understand why people think it's so great, the execution is great... You are hit with bitter yet smooth piney hops and it fades fast, however I'm finding I wish it had a touch more malty finish. I'm wondering if i might enjoy it better with us04 or something that will finish less dry?
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I question the freshness of your Pliny (only because I get what you are saying off not super fresh Pliny). Even a month old will give you this IMHO.

I'd say you need a touch more specialty malts or maybe a higher mash temp to get the maltose character you are looking for instead of a less attenuation yeast. You could go with a more malt forward yeast too, but then you'll lose hop aromatics.
 
brewski09 said:
I question the freshness of your Pliny (only because I get what you are saying off not super fresh Pliny). Even a month old will give you this IMHO.

I'd say you need a touch more specialty malts or maybe a higher mash temp to get the maltose character you are looking for instead of a less attenuation yeast. You could go with a more malt forward yeast too, but then you'll lose hop aromatics.
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Agreed. I've had Pliny on tap that was a bit old and it wasn't that flavorful, but I've had some that were bottled a week before I opened them and were absolutely amazing. Pliny is all about freshness and keeping them cool to get all of its hop flavor.

Also agree with adding more specialty malt instead of changing the yeast.


arbadarchi said:
So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...
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Just out of curiosity do you live closer to the east coast? I feel like east coast IPAs have a lot more malt flavor than west coast IPAs. It could just be your association/preference for malt in IPAs.
 

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