Control Panel

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

airbalancer

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
157
Reaction score
7
Location
Western MA
Here are some pics of the control panel for my yet to be built electric HERMS rig. Two Auber PID's which im not to crazy about. They dont have much of a lip so they dont seal very tight to the panel. I was thinking of finding an O ring that fits tight around them, maybe that will help. All the LED switches are from automation direct. Green for pumps, Red for elements, clear for HLT stirrer, and Blue for water fill. One pump is a three way, recirculate, and sparge will have a float switch.

Cheers
Mike
Control-Panel.jpg

Control-Panel-Side.jpg

Control-Panel-Inside.jpg
 
Did you get your SSRs and heat sinks from Auber too? That is where I bought my stuff.
 
I did get the SSRs and heat sinks from Auber. It was your post that got me motivated to get this project underway. Do you have any idea how much money your costing me? :)

I did want to ask you how much heat is generated by the SSRs? I wanted to mount them inside an enclosure with a fan.
 
Well, there is a fair ammount of heat generated over the course of a 60 miunute boil. I have my cycle time set at 1 second, and I can keep a rolling boil going at about 60-65%. That is A LOT of switching. The heat sink gets noticeably warm to the touch, and mine is mountd outside the box. If you ventilate the box well so that it can pull air in and exhaust it, you will be fine. If not, Id find a way to mount them on the exterior.

Sorry about costing you all the dough!
 
airbalancer looks well done.
A few labels, and your control box looks like first class.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
Which switches did you buy (sample item numbers) bcs I didn't think they had any that would handle element amps.

Thanks.
 
Which switches did you buy (sample item numbers) bcs I didn't think they had any that would handle element amps.

Thanks.

I was sorta wondering that too... the switches on thier site that LOOK similar to yours are rated at like 6A at 130VAC... and 4A at 400VAC. I hope I am missing something, or those cool looking switches wont be very helpful????

Unless you are actually using those element switches to control the PID output... that they could handle.
 
Sooo the switches are all 24VAC... and they simply switch relays, that in turn switch the 120VAC and 240VAC lines? Am I correct?
 
Here are some pics of the control panel for my yet to be built electric HERMS rig. Two Auber PID's which im not to crazy about. They dont have much of a lip so they dont seal very tight to the panel. I was thinking of finding an O ring that fits tight around them, maybe that will help. All the LED switches are from automation direct. Green for pumps, Red for elements, clear for HLT stirrer, and Blue for water fill. One pump is a three way, recirculate, and sparge will have a float switch.

Cheers
Mike
Control-Panel.jpg

Control-Panel-Side.jpg

Control-Panel-Inside.jpg

Where did you get that NEMA4R control box? Dimensions and price of the box would be great if you would. To keep the SSR or better yet SSRD's happy I would mount them inside with the heat sinks externally mounted for cooling. Even with this setup the SSR's or SSRD's being inside will elevate the temperatures inside the box. Maybe pop in louvered round screens on the sides near the top and a couple at the bottom with a 2" compueter fan one of the bottom vents to draw cooler air. This will help push out the warm air out the side vents at the top of your panel box. A great looking box I must add again, size and where you got it or a manufactures name and model numer of it. Thanks big time.
 
This is great. I have been researching this over the past 2 weeks. Running to every hardware, electrician supply, and big box shops figuring this out. Between you and The Pol. Thanks.

Anyway, the 24 vac switches you have are for 240vac? I am a little confused about that. Also, do you think these PIDs could slow a pump in manual mode? I see that Pol uses his PID in manual at 60 to 70% for boil. Can this be done with a pump??

Thanks!!
 
This is great. I have been researching this over the past 2 weeks. Running to every hardware, electrician supply, and big box shops figuring this out. Between you and The Pol. Thanks.

Anyway, the 24 vac switches you have are for 240vac? I am a little confused about that. Also, do you think these PIDs could slow a pump in manual mode? I see that Pol uses his PID in manual at 60 to 70% for boil. Can this be done with a pump??

Thanks!!

The 24VAC switches are operating on 24VAC, they are then used to control a signal to a larger RELAY, that is in fact switching the 240VAC.

A PID operates in manual mode by switching the power on and off several times reac SECOND, I can only imagine that would not be good for a pump.

Be careful slowing a pump... it may not be good for the pump at all. I would suggest simply using a valve on the output to slow the flow.
 
I believe the switches are rated for up to a 240 volt load. The LEDs are 24 VAC. I dont think the PID can slow a pump you would need a VFD (variable frequency drive) for that, but a PID could regulate a control valve slowing the flow.
 
The swtiches you listed are shown as 24VAC switches on the automation direct site... there is some spec that shows them 130VAC at 6amp load or 400VAC at like 4amps... which is obviously not enough to switch anything (elements) alone.
 
airbalancer, when you wire that box, could you post some pics? I think I am confusing myself now.
I understand about the pump though. Will not try that. Was thinking for chilling applications.

Pol, you have 240vac coming in to the box. You then have 2 hot buses, 1 neutral bus, and 1 ground bus. (Please correct) Then the PID is only 120vac(using only 1 hot and neutral)? I think thats what I got out of the other thread. The PID then goes to a switch then to the SSR or to the SSR then to switch? This is where I lost it. Those PIDs can support vdc and vac, correct? so then is Airbalance's box PID going to vac SSRs input or is it vdc if those switches are 24vac? I would mostly just do vdc out of the PID to the switch and then to the SSR with the 240vac output. If that makes sense.

Sorry and Thanks.
 
I dont understand exactly what airbalancer has going on, but you are correct about my system essentially.

I have 240VAC coming in to my box. TWO hots, ONE neutral and ONE ground... I then have a distribution block that allows me to tap (4) loads off of each HOT and each NEUTRAL. This way I can feed my 120VAC stuff with one hot leg and one neutral, and my 240VAC stuff with two hots.

I have a separate grounding bar, where EVERYTHING is grounded.

My PID is ALWAYS on... but I DO have a 30A DPST switch that switches the ONE hot going to the SSR and the ONE hot going directly to the 240VAC outlet for the 5500W element ON and OFF. This way I have a way of turning off the element regardles of PID commands.

My PID is powered with 120VAC, as well as my HLT temp controller, heating element, stirrer and my March pump. The only thing that is 240VAC is my BK element.
 
So the SSR only has one hot output? So the other Hot output needs to be supplied by the other Hot bar. The PID has 1 hot and 1 neutral coming from the bars. The PID then as 1 hot and 1 neutral output to the SSR. Then the SSR has 1 hot and 1 neutral output. Is this correct? So the switch you have is between the one hot bar and the PID and SSR?
 
So the SSR only has one hot output? So the other Hot output needs to be supplied by the other Hot bar. The PID has 1 hot and 1 neutral coming from the bars. The PID then as 1 hot and 1 neutral output to the SSR. Then the SSR has 1 hot and 1 neutral output. Is this correct? So the switch you have is between the one hot bar and the PID and SSR?


The SSR has (4) terminals:

It has (2) for the PID control command, a + and -.

It has (2) for the HOT that comes in, and the HOT that leaves it going to your element.

The other HOT for the 240VAC element has to be supplied by the other HOT bar yes.

The PID has ONE hot and ONE neutral

My 30A switch is between the TWO hots that come off of my two hot buses. One hot leaves the switch to be the HOT that goes IN and OUT of the SSR. The other HOT goes directly to the element from the switch.

There is no neutral from the SSR, it only switches HOT legs.

There are two legs that come from the PID to the SSR, one pos, one neg.
 
Just finished the silk screening. I used the HI-RES EZ Screenprint. It came out OK although I was hoping it would be better. I did have to do it a couple times because of bleeding, probably should have used a thicker font.

Control-Panel-Labels.jpg
 
So are the high amp relays in another box or in same box?? Where do your element actually connect? I got peeved at my rig today and wound up stripping all the electronics off and want to redo it...
 
Yes except for one 110 for the power supply to the PID's. I have been looking around for some multi-conductor wire. It would make for a cleaner install to find one cable with 14 or so conductors.
 
Yes except for one 110 for the power supply to the PID's. I have been looking around for some multi-conductor wire. It would make for a cleaner install to find one cable with 14 or so conductors.

You could run the wire in some flexible conduit. I'm really thinking hard about this setup, but my light switches and outlets setup is so simple. I know I will redo my rig sometime this year (thinking of going single tier or brewmagic-like), so any info/pics you can share would be great.
 
Airbalancer,

Saw your control panel and I just recently bought one. Hope it turns out as nice at yours! The guy I got it from actually has three in stock for under 70 bucks a piece. It seemed like the perfect size and shape for a nice brew stand. Nice job!

ddknight
 
Beautiful! Very nice setup!

I looked at that tilted panel too but decided I needed more room so got a 16x16x8" box instead as everything will be on one box (and it'll probably be tight!). For those looking for engraved plastic electrical panel tags, I bought a bunch from this place: Signs Banners & Tags | Engraved and vinyl signage for industrial and commercial applications. (Any trophy shop will do them too - this place is in Canada so it was convenient for me). Cost me about $35 or so along with an engraved 4x2" aluminum plaque like this that I drew up:

TheElectricBrewery_final.jpg


What's nice about those automation direct switches is that they're lit so you save some space on your panel as you're combining a pilot light with a switch. How bright are they when lit? Got any shots of them running in the dark?

I bought pilot lights off Ebay from 'electrical_parts' - the one that have with replacable 120V LED lights but frankly I don't like the look of them and some are too dim. Their non-replaceable LED pilots are much nicer (I bought one to try it out) and are identical to the cheapest ones that Automation Direct sells. So I ended up re-buying all my pilot lights twice. :( (Actually I've done that with a few things now as I see something nicer- by the end I'll have enough to build a second small panel that I should give away... ). ;)

SSR's have leakage current and I didn't want to just use the SSR's to switch one 120V leg, so instead I'm using two relays too (exact same ones you're using, also from 'electrical_parts')) to completely turn on or turn off one element at once, and then the 3rd relay powers the whole unit with a key switch. Very smart idea.

Two Auber PID's which im not to crazy about. They dont have much of a lip so they dont seal very tight to the panel. I was thinking of finding an O ring that fits tight around them, maybe that will help.
Let me know if you find any. I noticed that as well. There's actually quite a big hole in the bottom of the front that would allow moisture to get in.

I imagine 1/16 DIN rubber gaskets would be available but I haven't been able to find any. Very thin weather stripping of some sort may work too. We need something because it seems silly to have a nice NEMA 4/12 box and then have loose/rattlely PIDs destroy that rating.

Actually, I'm not that impressed with the auber pids at all really (I have 3). They're pretty REALLY cheaply made compared to real manufacturing stuff. But then, what do you expect for ~$40. Others cost $100+.

I did get the SSRs and heat sinks from Auber. It was your post that got me motivated to get this project underway. Do you have any idea how much money your costing me? :)
Tell me about it. Just spent $170 last night on ONLY the locking power cable disconnects! And that's a discounted ebay price for new-old stock (NOS). Would have been at least $100 more locally.

Well, there is a fair ammount of heat generated over the course of a 60 miunute boil. I have my cycle time set at 1 second, and I can keep a rolling boil going at about 60-65%. That is A LOT of switching. The heat sink gets noticeably warm to the touch, and mine is mountd outside the box. If you ventilate the box well so that it can pull air in and exhaust it, you will be fine. If not, Id find a way to mount them on the exterior.
That's unfortuate that they run that warm (Pol uses a 5500W element FWIW - same as what I'm planning). I was hoping to have the heatsinks inside too for a nice enclosed look. I wouldn't punch a hole in the box and use a fan as that'll again wreck any NEMA rating that you may have had before (if you care, but seems a shame to get a box with a nice sealed lid and then just punch holes in the side that are completely open).

I'd mount the heat sinks externally with 4 screws drilled in the corners of the heat sinks and then cut a smaller SSR sized hole in the box to allow the SSR to have 100% contact to the heat sink. Then use a thin rubber gasket between the heatsink and the box wall to make sure it's water tight.

The other option that I'm toying with is to simply mount the heat sinks and SSRs on opposite sides of the box wall. SSR's inside, heatsinks outside. I'd sand down and clean an area on the inside & outside of the box and simply mount the SSR to the heat sink with the box wall in between (2 small holes drilled through the box for the 2 screws that hold the two together). A thin layer of heat sink compount on both sides and it should work fine to heat transfer. The box walls are pretty thin and the box itself will also help dissipate some of the heat too I imagine which may help offset the fact that your heat transfer won't be as good as you have an extra change of material type. You'd have to make sure it's completely flat and tight. Some silicone sealant around the heat sink on the outside after may be a good idea too. Thoughts?

(EDIT: BrewBeemer mentions later that the SSRs themselves will of course get hot so there's still some heat in the box. Hmmm).

Anyway, nice setup... keep us up to date! I'll be posting my own thread in the next few weeks as my parts keep coming in too.... sloooowly....

Kal
 
Heres a basic wiring diagram

Wire-Diagram.jpg

This is basically exactly what I'm doing too... except instead of 2 switches to control when the 2 elements can be on, I'm using a 3-way switch (center off) to choose which of the two elements can be on.

Your way is great if you've got a 60A service and want to run both elements at once (brewing back to back). I wanted my setup to be portable which means 30A max through a big GFI'ed extension cord as the largest plug you can find easily is a 30A dryer outlet. So I had to design in something to ensure that it would be impossible for both elements to be on at once.


Very nice!

Kal
 
I found this cool plug I am going to use to connect the control panel to the electrical compartment, and some 14 conductor 18 gauge wire. The electric enclosure I ordered from ebay is a Stainless 12x16x8. Nice and deep to give me room on the side for all the outlets. I was thinking about sandwiching the panel wall between the heat sinks and the SSR's but I am leaning towards the inside mounting with a fan instead. I saw a DIN mounted t-stat somewhere so the fan would only run as needed.

going broke :)
Mike



14 pin connector Male + Female Complete Lot of 2 - eBay (item 200300711707 end time Feb-18-09 06:22:13 PST)

Multi-Conductor Shielded Cables
 
Just finished the silk screening. I used the HI-RES EZ Screenprint. It came out OK although I was hoping it would be better. I did have to do it a couple times because of bleeding, probably should have used a thicker font.

Control-Panel-Labels.jpg


Fantastic stuff, really looks great !
 
Well I finished putting the electric panel together today but I'm still waiting on a couple items before I can do any wiring. I ended up value engineering down to a smaller panel so space ran out quickly. The two 30 amp relays I purchased on ebay were huge so I picked up these to at Grainger which are half the size, also the SSR heatsinks were mounted externally to save even more space. I'm not sure how I am going to handle wiring to the elements yet, maybe conduit to seprate outlet boxes.

Mike
electricpanelfront.jpg

electricpanelinside.jpg

electricpanelssr.jpg

electricpanelheatsink.jpg
 
Very Nice! I really like the DIN mounted stuff - makes it much cleaner looking.

Got a link to the 30A relays you bought? I'm thinking of copying your setup... Even better if you have a general parts list. I really like your setup.

I like that all electric brewing is catching on.
 
The 30 Amp relays are Grainger's part # 1EJH6, The other four are from automation direct, part # 782-2C-24A. The disconnect and breakers are also from AD, SSR's from Auber, the rest I reclaimed from some old panels.
 
Back
Top