is boling really necessary

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bmeyer46

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I'm playing around with some 1 gallon kits, and was wondering if rather than boiling, I could do a first wort hop when I add my specialty grains, heat to 170 for 15 min to pasteurize. Put the flavor/aroma hops in with 5 min left and just leave the hop bag in while it chills?
sort of like a no chill, but not really..
does that make any sense at all? LOL :confused:
 
You really want to boil. Without it you won't get a good hot break / cold break which could make for some very cloudy beer.
 
I dont know for sure but I imagine the bitterness from FWH still comes from the amount of time being boiled, right?
 
You need to remember that DMS gets boiled off as well.

A berliner weiss is one of the only styles I know of that doesn't need a boil.
 
BBL_Brewer said:
None. Only water and volatile compounds are driven off during the boil.

Correct, that's why it's easy to use a pre boil gravity reading to determine the post boil gravity (provided you can accurately predict your boil off rate)
 
Haputanlas said:
Correct, that's why it's easy to use a pre boil gravity reading to determine the post boil gravity (provided you can accurately predict your boil off rate)

What is DMS then? Thought that was a typo.
 
For EXTRACT brewing, there is no DMS, it has been taken care of during the making of the extract. Same goes for hot break, that happens when the extract is manufactured...this stuff has already been boiled and made into finished wort, it's just dehydrated.

Your only issue with no boiling is hop IBU's, pasteurization temps cover any sanitation issues.
 
helibrewer said:
For EXTRACT brewing, there is no DMS, it has been taken care of during the making of the extract. Same goes for hot break, that happens when the extract is manufactured...this stuff has already been boiled and made into finished wort, it's just dehydrated.

Your only issue with no boiling is hop IBU's, pasteurization temps cover any sanitation issues.

Good point. I guess the wort has been boiled off already to get to the high gravity for the extract. That would mean DMS is already taken care of.

However, i don't think i noticed this was extract when i wrote that
 
Good point. I guess the wort has been boiled off already to get to the high gravity for the extract. That would mean DMS is already taken care of.

However, i don't think i noticed this was extract when i wrote that

Then it is safe to say you were also unaware that this is the EXTRACT BREWING forum:D:tank:;)
 
In my first kit I just used boiling water with hops and to swill out the can of malt extract,

And as I was bottling it tasted fine if flat at that point.
I still have to try the finished beer but every where else I read you should boil for a long time in your water.
Mine was a kit so may not produce a great finished beer but with the next brew I think I will be boiling with the water even if only for a short time. To make sure I get a good mix , and will be putting hops in it to help

But I am also very new to this hence the kit to start. But my wife had a small taste and thought it was not to bad so I am going to have a bit of a play next time and just do 2 x 1 gallon Demijohns but do them differently 2 types of hops.
 
Ogri said:
Then it is safe to say you were also unaware that this is the EXTRACT BREWING forum:D:tank:;)

Yes, you are correct. I just went to the unanswered thread section and saw this. Didn't look at the particular forum.

However, that likely wouldn't have made a difference since I hadn't thought of DMS with extract before (as i said in the post)

:)
 
so in theory could you double the amount of hops to make up for short time at that temp?
 
bmeyer46 said:
so in theory could you double the amount of hops to make up for short time at that temp?

It would take a lot more trial and error to figure out exactly how many IBU's are extracted at 170F vs 212F and you are still going to need to keep the hops in for an hour to extract the Alpha Acids. It is easier to maintain temp at boil than it is to maintain at 170F.
 
It would take a lot more trial and error to figure out exactly how many IBU's are extracted at 170F vs 212F and you are still going to need to keep the hops in for an hour to extract the Alpha Acids. It is easier to maintain temp at boil than it is to maintain at 170F.



Yes true, but I like to think outside the box! LOL
 
I'm confused as to why the OP doesn't want to boil? Is this one of those "is it theoretically possible to..." questions or does the OP have some sort of constraint which doesn't allow for boiling? If it is the former, sure it's possible. If it's the latter, figure out a way to boil. It is one of the fundamental steps in brewing. It wouldn't be listed in every reference if it wasn't important.
 
I would boil with all grain beer, but since the malt extract has already been boiled, other than the hop utilization, is it necessary...I can boil and do, just tossing around some ideas....experimentation is fun!
people said you had to chill rapidly too, but the no chill crowd has proven that incorrect.
 
As you probably know, hops add 3 things to your beer. Bitterness, flavor and aroma. They add more bitterness and less aroma/flavor the longer you boil them. Hop bursting is boiling for a shorter time so you don't boil off as much aroma and flavor. You still add bitterness but not as much so you have to add more hops. You do something like a 20m boil and hop the crap out of it to get a decent amount of bitterness but since the boil is so short you don't boil off much aroma or flavor.
 
helibrewer said:
?.. Same goes for hot break, that happens when the extract is manufactured...this stuff has already been boiled and made into finished wort, it's just dehydrated...

What about the "egg drop soup" I see after adding extract to the boil? Are you saying there's NO hot break with extract brewing, or ?

Thnx in advance for any reply
 
As you probably know, hops add 3 things to your beer. Bitterness, flavor and aroma. They add more bitterness and less aroma/flavor the longer you boil them. Hop bursting is boiling for a shorter time so you don't boil off as much aroma and flavor. You still add bitterness but not as much so you have to add more hops. You do something like a 20m boil and hop the crap out of it to get a decent amount of bitterness but since the boil is so short you don't boil off much aroma or flavor.

Exactly, bitterness is achieved by boiling longer because the AA are not water soluble and take longer to undergo isomerization. You do get bittering from later additions, but they impact at a lower ratio. Using Beersmith, I calculated the IBU impact of 1oz of centennial pellets at 60, 20, and 5 minutes on 8 lbs of LME. Results as follows:
60 minute - 23.9 IBU
20 minute - 14.5 IBU
5 minute - 4.8 IBU
According to traditional wisdom, the 60 minute addition is for bittering, 20(ish) for flavor, and 5(ish) for aroma. So if you are going to try and achieve normal levels of bittering through hop bursting you are going to have big flavor and aroma (something I like).

To the OP, good luck with your experimenting and, as always, come back and share the results!
 
I am actually planning on doing a couple hop bursted beers pretty soon.

6lb Wheat DME
2oz Cascade 20m
2oz Cascade 10m
2oz Cascade 5m
2oz Cascade Flameout
US-05

6lb Wheat DME
1oz Citra 20m
1oz Citra 10m
1oz Citra 5m
1oz Citra Flameout
US-05

Let it sit for 45ish minutes before starting the chiller. I may mix in some Amarillo into one or both. I will probably add some grains to both also.
 

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