founders red's rye ipa clone

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mb2696

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EDIT for disclaimer: This is a first attempt at cloning red's rye -- it is not a tried-and-true recipe.

I want to try to clone Founders' Red's Rye IPA, so I emailed them about the recipe and got this response:

...Grist is 2/3 domestic 2 row. Lots of Cpils, some aromatic malt, some medium and dark crystal and of course some rye malt. The og should be around 15.5 plato and hop it to about 70 ibus with Perle and Amarillo. Ferment with a clean neutral strain and dryhop profusely just before terminal with Amarillo. Give it at least 4 days on the dryhop. Rack to secondary at cold and let sit cold for a week or so. Viola delicious hoppy Red’s Rye...
Click to expand...

Given that, what do you think about this recipe:

8# US 2-row (66%)
2# US rye malt (17%)
12oz crystal 80 (6%)
8oz crystal 40 (4%)
8oz carapils (4%)
4oz# aromatic (2%)

should be around 14 SRM, OG=1.064 @ 75% mash eff.

1 oz perle @ XX for 70 IBU
1 oz amarillo at 20, 10, 5, 0
2 oz amarillo at DH

WY1056, ferment 68-69F

Any comments/suggestions?
 
Looks good to me from that pretty crappy discription they gave you. At least they gave you the hops...that's usually the tough part. I would have liked a fermentation temp too.
 
I really like this beer and just had one last night. It's like drinking a grapefruit and then getting that nice bite of rye flavor when you swallow. Please let me know how this comes out. I would definitely be interested in making it.
 
HickoryMike said:
Was this recipe ever made? This beer is incredible and I want to try a clone recipe.
Click to expand...

no, i haven't made it yet, but will pretty soon. i will definitely post back on how it turns out, especially compared to the real thing.


Brew-boy said:
I love this beer, and I think the brewer did a good job giving you the info. He could of been like some other A-holes and not even responded to your email. To call it a crappy response I Disagree 100%
Click to expand...

and yea, it would have been nice to have more info, but like you said brewboy, at least he gave what he did


i saw another guy working on a clone here...

http://blog.flaminio.net/blogs/index.php/beer/beer-tasting/founder-s-red-s-rye-tasting-aamp-recipe

but I didn't see anywhere to contact him, and his blog seems inactive since about march. his is pretty similar although he has caramunich and 120L instead of 80L as well. his is a bit darker at 17 SRM. i don't have any around to judge the actual color. any thoughts? this is a good excuse for me to pick some up though.

the founder's website does say that it has "four varieties of imported Belgian caramel malts" so i'm not sure if they are counting carapils and/or aromatic as caramel malts, or if caramunich is in there as well. what do you think?

he also claims that they told him to ferment a little warmer than his guess of 67, so i'll probably try to hold 68-69
 
At one time I was working on a red's rye recipe but never followed through with it. I did however save some info that I had come across. Here's a couple of snippets from a thread on beeradvocate (that may or may not help):

I emailed them about 1.5 yrs ago and they told me columbus for bitter (which doesn't matter much) and amarillo and cascade for flavor and smell. Then they said they used something like 4 or 5 different malts like 1 crystal and 3 belgian. Try emailing them and they may at least give you the grains they use. It can't hurt.
Click to expand...

I did email them, but didn't get a response in time for brew day, but did eventually hear from them. Here is the email:

Go with about 12% rye malt, Carmel and pale malts mostly. Thanks for the support hopefully this give a bit of direction.

Take care,
Mike Stevens | President
Founders Brewing Company
Click to expand...
 
-TH- said:
At one time I was working on a red's rye recipe but never followed through with it. I did however save some info that I had come across. Here's a couple of snippets from a thread on beeradvocate (that may or may not help):
Click to expand...

Cool thanks for the help...I think I will tone down the rye then. Their website does say that they use 4 belgian caramel malts. Also I'm not too sure about the color, but I picked up a single so I'll try to use that to estimate the color tonight.

I will definitely do this soon and let everyone know how it turns out and how it compares.
 
mb2696 said:
I want to try to clone Founders' Red's Rye IPA, so I emailed them about the recipe....
Click to expand...

Quick question, who did you email? was it just info@... off the website or was it someone directly? I would like to email them about a different beer and I wondered who gave you the info you got.

Thanks
 
-TH- said:
Quick question, who did you email? was it just info@... off the website or was it someone directly? I would like to email them about a different beer and I wondered who gave you the info you got.

Thanks
Click to expand...

i just emailed info@ it took a few days, but they did eventually respond
 
Did this brew ever get done? Also, does anyone have clone for Founders Double Trouble, another GREAT brew from Founders
 
zrule said:
Did this brew ever get done? Also, does anyone have clone for Founders Double Trouble, another GREAT brew from Founders
Click to expand...

No, I unfortunately didn't ever get to it. So much to brew and so little time... It's still on my to-do list, but it may be a while. When I get to it, I will definitely post the results though.
 
Apendecto said:
If this ever gets made, I'd love to hear how it turns out.
Click to expand...

Still planning to do it, but haven't yet, partially because I haven't finalized the recipe yet. I emailed this recipe to the same guy:

Code: 
GRIST - OG = 15.5p, COLOR = 13 SRM
====================================
67% US 2-row
15% US rye malt
6% dark crystal
4% medium crystal
5% carapils
3% aromatic
 
HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1 oz Perle @ 60 min (30 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 35 min (25 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 15 min (15 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 0 min
1 oz Amarillo @ dry-hop
 
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ 64F

and got this response:

Lower the rye and increase the carapils. Get less IBUs from the 60 min hop charge and make it up by increasing your 30 min charge. Triple your dryhop and I think you are real close. Oh Yeah and ferment that at 70F. Good Luck!
Click to expand...

I'm fine with adjusting the grist and bittering, but 3oz amarillo DH seems like way too much for that beer. also 70f seems too high - i'd expect a banana bomb. any thoughts? i'll probably just have to do it and report back.
 
Ok, Newbie here. but since I really like this beer, I have tried this as my first all grain beer (sixth beer over all)

I used the ingredients found on one of the posts.

8# 2-row
2# rye
.75 caramel 80l
.50 carapils
.50 caramel 40l
.25 aromatic

1 oz perle 60 min
1 oz amarillo 20 min
1 oz amarillo 10 min
1 oz amarillo 5 min
1 oz amarill 0 min

I entered it all in Beersmith. Ran it just like the brewsheet (newbie remember)
The mash temp was calculated at 158. this seemed to be a bit high for me, but blindly followed directions. The mash started at 160 so cooled it to exactly 158 and lost on one degree in the hour. I missed the preboil gravity by .010! Wort gravity ended at 1.058. Estimated post boil was 1.063 (beersmith again).
I did this on the 21st, and lots of activity in the fermenter tonight. The smells coming from the fermenter are amazing. The brewsheet says to ferment in primary for 4 days then dry hop 2oz of amarillo for 7, then bottle. For the dry hop I have plugs. Should I just through these in or use an infuser?

I won't be offended by any suggestions on what I could have done.
 
Just my thoughts...I would recomend swapping the quantities of the caramel malts. .75 40L .5 80L. Let us know how it turned out though. Since he said that the gravity is around 1.062 then i would think your mash temps should be fairly low in order to hit the 6.5% abv.
 
zrule said:
Ok, Newbie here. but since I really like this beer, I have tried this as my first all grain beer (sixth beer over all)

I used the ingredients found on one of the posts.

8# 2-row
2# rye
.75 caramel 80l
.50 carapils
.50 caramel 40l
.25 aromatic

1 oz perle 60 min
1 oz amarillo 20 min
1 oz amarillo 10 min
1 oz amarillo 5 min
1 oz amarill 0 min

I entered it all in Beersmith. Ran it just like the brewsheet (newbie remember)
The mash temp was calculated at 158. this seemed to be a bit high for me, but blindly followed directions. The mash started at 160 so cooled it to exactly 158 and lost on one degree in the hour. I missed the preboil gravity by .010! Wort gravity ended at 1.058. Estimated post boil was 1.063 (beersmith again).
I did this on the 21st, and lots of activity in the fermenter tonight. The smells coming from the fermenter are amazing. The brewsheet says to ferment in primary for 4 days then dry hop 2oz of amarillo for 7, then bottle. For the dry hop I have plugs. Should I just through these in or use an infuser?

I won't be offended by any suggestions on what I could have done.
Click to expand...

I don't use beersmith so I'm not sure what you mean by "the mash temp was calculated at 158." I would say this is too high and your FG may not end up where you want it to be. I would take a hydrometer reading to check before you start dryhopping (which I would do regardless...)
 
mb2696 said:
Still planning to do it, but haven't yet, partially because I haven't finalized the recipe yet. I emailed this recipe to the same guy:

Code: 
GRIST - OG = 15.5p, COLOR = 13 SRM
====================================
67% US 2-row
15% US rye malt
6% dark crystal
4% medium crystal
5% carapils
3% aromatic
 
HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1 oz Perle @ 60 min (30 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 35 min (25 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 15 min (15 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 0 min
1 oz Amarillo @ dry-hop
 
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ 64F

and got this response:



I'm fine with adjusting the grist and bittering, but 3oz amarillo DH seems like way too much for that beer. also 70f seems too high - i'd expect a banana bomb. any thoughts? i'll probably just have to do it and report back.
Click to expand...

That's great! As for the ferm temp, those guys use huge tanks which let them go high. Do your standard 65 degrees or so and I bet it turn out great. Good work!
 
mb2696 said:
Still planning to do it, but haven't yet, partially because I haven't finalized the recipe yet. I emailed this recipe to the same guy:

Code: 
GRIST - OG = 15.5p, COLOR = 13 SRM
====================================
67% US 2-row
15% US rye malt
6% dark crystal
4% medium crystal
5% carapils
3% aromatic
 
HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1 oz Perle @ 60 min (30 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 35 min (25 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 15 min (15 IBU)
1 oz Amarillo @ 0 min
1 oz Amarillo @ dry-hop
 
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ 64F

and got this response:



I'm fine with adjusting the grist and bittering, but 3oz amarillo DH seems like way too much for that beer. also 70f seems too high - i'd expect a banana bomb. any thoughts? i'll probably just have to do it and report back.
Click to expand...

FWIW I've been using 1056 at 68 with great results, but my first reaction was what Apendecto said.
 
Apendecto said:
That's great! As for the ferm temp, those guys use huge tanks which let them go high. Do your standard 65 degrees or so and I bet it turn out great. Good work!
Click to expand...

Yea....I think I've read that before. Does anyone know what the physics concept behind that is?
 
Well, I'll stop talking about it and I'll just make it. I've bumped this up to my next brew, which will hopefully be this weekend. I've made the suggested changes (and a couple other small ones). I'll probably going to go with the recipe below and will report back after brewday...

Code: 
Calculated for 5.25g @ 75% efficiency.

I'm probably going to mash around 152-153*F…
looking to hit 1.013 FG to match the 6.6% ABV.

GRIST - OG = 1.063, Color = 13 SRM
====================================
8.30# 2-Row (67%)
1.25# Rye Malt (10%)
1.00# carapils (8%)
0.75# Simpsons Dark Crystal (6%)
0.75# Simpsons Medium Crystal (6%)
0.40# Aromatic Malt (3%)

HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1.0 oz Perle (8.0% AA) @ 60 min (24 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 30 min (32 IBU)
1.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 15 min (14 IBU)
2.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ flameout
3.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ dry-hop for 5-7 days

YEAST
================================
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ ~63*F
 
mb2696 said:
Well, I'll stop talking about it and I'll just make it. I've bumped this up to my next brew, which will hopefully be this weekend. I've made the suggested changes (and a couple other small ones). I'll probably going to go with the recipe below and will report back after brewday...

Code: 
Calculated for 5.25g @ 75% efficiency.

I'm probably going to mash around 152-153*F…
looking to hit 1.013 FG to match the 6.6% ABV.

GRIST - OG = 1.063, Color = 13 SRM
====================================
8.30# 2-Row (67%)
1.25# Rye Malt (10%)
1.00# carapils (8%)
0.75# Simpsons Dark Crystal (6%)
0.75# Simpsons Medium Crystal (6%)
0.40# Aromatic Malt (3%)

HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1.0 oz Perle (8.0% AA) @ 60 min (24 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 30 min (32 IBU)
1.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 15 min (14 IBU)
2.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ flameout
3.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ dry-hop for 5-7 days

YEAST
================================
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ ~63*F
Click to expand...

Cool. Can't wait to hear about it.
 
Apendecto said:
Cool. Can't wait to hear about it.
Click to expand...

Brewed it today with a couple problems

-mashed a little lower than I wanted at 151
-efficiency was higher than expected. added water to bring gravity down. it was too much - hit 1.056 OG instead of 1.063.
-it also seemed a bit darker than i remember RR being

Either way, it probably won't be that close, but should still be good. I'll post more info post fermentation...
 
mb, since you are a senior member and I am a noob then I would like your opinion. Remember this was my first all-grain batch and my calculated efficiency was only around 67%. With no experience, i entered all info in Beersmith and followed directions regarding strike water and sparge water. The initial temp of the mash was 160 which I cooled down to the called for 158. The batch sparge temp of the mash was the same. I came up somewhat short on the amount preboil wort so added addtional sparge water about 1/2 to 1 gallon. I didn't measure the temp of this water but am sure it was somewhat cooler as I don't have a sparge water tank. This water was just sitting in a plastic bucket. The ambient temp of the garage was probably around 45-50 degrees. Fermentation was complete and racked to secondary in 4 days and dryhopped sg was 1.011.

My biggest question...how can i improve my efficiency to 75%. I have not been able to find anything in this forum. Thanks in advance.
 
mb2696 said:
Brewed it today with a couple problems

-mashed a little lower than I wanted at 151
-efficiency was higher than expected. added water to bring gravity down. it was too much - hit 1.056 OG instead of 1.063.
-it also seemed a bit darker than i remember RR being

Either way, it probably won't be that close, but should still be good. I'll post more info post fermentation...
Click to expand...

Sounds good.
 
Well, it's in the bottle....Color is ever so SLIGHTLY darker then Founders. It has a rediculous aroma and I did sample it, am excited about my first all grain brew! ...the smell of those hops is amazing. I hated to throw all that wonderful aroma down the disposal. I will report back in a couple of weeks.
 
zrule said:
Well, it's in the bottle....Color is ever so SLIGHTLY darker then Founders. It has a rediculous aroma and I did sample it, am excited about my first all grain brew! ...the smell of those hops is amazing. I hated to throw all that wonderful aroma down the disposal. I will report back in a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

Cool. :ban:
 
I was finally able to get it on the dry hop today. It finished at 1.015, putting it at 5.4% (real thing is 6.6% FG=1.013). I ending up going with a 2oz amarillo dry hop because 3 just seems like too much. I'll post comparison tasting notes once its kegged and carb'd...
 
I've been following this thread pretty closely as I would love to make this beer at home. I'm only set-up and capable of an extract brew - is there any way i'm able to use rye malt with a limited set-up/knowledge? Beersmith doesnt convert it so I assume I can really use it without doing a mash?
 
BearInTheBackyard said:
I've been following this thread pretty closely as I would love to make this beer at home. I'm only set-up and capable of an extract brew - is there any way i'm able to use rye malt with a limited set-up/knowledge? Beersmith doesnt convert it so I assume I can really use it without doing a mash?
Click to expand...

This doesn't seem that hard.
 
BearInTheBackyard said:
I've been following this thread pretty closely as I would love to make this beer at home. I'm only set-up and capable of an extract brew - is there any way i'm able to use rye malt with a limited set-up/knowledge? Beersmith doesnt convert it so I assume I can really use it without doing a mash?
Click to expand...

+1 to what Apendecto said. I've been using this method for my last three batches. It saves a little money, is more fun for me, and makes me feel a little more connected to my beer. My stove has trouble with boiling anything too much more than 3 gallons, and I only have a 5 gallon pot and nothing else bigger than a gallon, so with those limitations I have found that I don't typically want to go over 6 pounds of grain. Also, to avoid buying a new pot I put my grain bag in a strainer over my 5 gallon pot and heat up my sparge water in multiple smaller pots to pour over the grain. If you have limitations of your own other people can help you figure out if there is a way to do it.
 
OK.....couldn't wait to sample the red's. Cracked on last night and was really tired (see below). First reaction.....This is my first all grain brew and is best yet.....however, needs another ounce of amarillo in the secondary. It certainly has nice aroma, but I like more more more. The two ounces of plugs took alot of juice and I only ended up with 37 bottles. I used plug as I thought this would do a better job of adding the aroma I want. Does anyone know if this is true or do pellets do just as good but take up as much beer.
Tonight I will compare with the real thing and posts my reaction.

Off subject Worked hard over weekend putting up hop trellis and got my rhyzomes in the ground. I planted Cascade, Centenial, Williamette and Golding.
 
slowbie said:
+1 to what Apendecto said. I've been using this method for my last three batches. It saves a little money, is more fun for me, and makes me feel a little more connected to my beer. My stove has trouble with boiling anything too much more than 3 gallons, and I only have a 5 gallon pot and nothing else bigger than a gallon, so with those limitations I have found that I don't typically want to go over 6 pounds of grain. Also, to avoid buying a new pot I put my grain bag in a strainer over my 5 gallon pot and heat up my sparge water in multiple smaller pots to pour over the grain. If you have limitations of your own other people can help you figure out if there is a way to do it.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the insight. I normally only boil about 3-3.5 gallons of wort and then just add cold water to bring down the temp enough before pitching and to bring the volume up to 5 gallons. That being said, is it possible to do the partial mash in about 2-3 gallons and then pour the water for the sparge up to around 4 gallons and save a gallon thats cold to help bring down the temp faster? Or is it required or highly recommended that I end up with all 5 gallons in the boiling pot?

Also, when I do the partial mash, do I just use the rye malt and then steep the other grains after or put it all in during the partial mash? (using the recipe above).

Thanks for any and all help!
 
BearInTheBackyard said:
I appreciate the insight. I normally only boil about 3-3.5 gallons of wort and then just add cold water to bring down the temp enough before pitching and to bring the volume up to 5 gallons. That being said, is it possible to do the partial mash in about 2-3 gallons and then pour the water for the sparge up to around 4 gallons and save a gallon thats cold to help bring down the temp faster? Or is it required or highly recommended that I end up with all 5 gallons in the boiling pot?

Also, when I do the partial mash, do I just use the rye malt and then steep the other grains after or put it all in during the partial mash? (using the recipe above).

Thanks for any and all help!
Click to expand...

You'll need some 2-row or something with some extra enzymes. This is a really good, well written article on partial mashing.
 
zrule said:
OK.....couldn't wait to sample the red's. Cracked on last night and was really tired (see below). First reaction.....This is my first all grain brew and is best yet.....however, needs another ounce of amarillo in the secondary. It certainly has nice aroma, but I like more more more. The two ounces of plugs took alot of juice and I only ended up with 37 bottles. I used plug as I thought this would do a better job of adding the aroma I want. Does anyone know if this is true or do pellets do just as good but take up as much beer.
Tonight I will compare with the real thing and posts my reaction.

Off subject Worked hard over weekend putting up hop trellis and got my rhyzomes in the ground. I planted Cascade, Centenial, Williamette and Golding.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need a secondary made out of hops.

In other news, I planted my rhizomes the other day. Three Cascades and two Chinook so far and two Cascade and two Northern Brewer on the way. Have any pictures of your trellis?

Keep us updated on this beer. Sounds like one I'll be tackling in the future.
 

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