KBS Clone Recipe in Zymurgy!

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Fist bump to this recipe! I scaled the exact recipe posted by John51277 up to 11gal and brewed it 12/31/15.

*Mashed in the mid 150’s for 90 mins. Fly sparge. 90 minute boil
*Oxygenated wort w/ pure O2 on the brewday an morning after
*Pitched ~1000B cells of BRY97 from a one week ramped starter
*Fermented 14 days at 62deg ambient (1.092 to 1.018)
*Kegged directly from primary. Geez, talk about some gunk in the bottom! No washed yeast from this batch.
*Soaked two 4 inch oak half-spirals… one in 5oz Rum and the other in 5oz Knob Creek for 2 weeks or so during PF
*Kegged on day 15 into cornys. Each keg received 6oz of a 1.040 DME starter and one of the oak+booze mixes. Also added 4oz Blackstrap molasses to the rum oak keg for a Jamaica Breakfast Stout edition (aka JBS)

After 14 days in the keg in my basement, both are nicely carbonated and the oak is just starting to peek through. The JBS definitely has a rum profile, and the KBS seems to be on course to match up with it’s namesake in several months. Planning to age this beer in kegs another month or so then bottle-gun into 12’s and 22’s.
 
Just read through all the post. My head is swimming. What is the best method of carbonizing the bottles. I figure after leaving in secondary for 2 months or so the yeast are done.
 
Add some fresh yeast when bottling. The amount doesn't matter so much. I usually go for a half packet of dry yeast for 5 gallons. Rehydrate, add to the bottling bucket and stir gently into the beer.
 
Im Gonna brew this in a few days, but having trouble figuring out the botteling and priming process. Im quite new in brewing and havent heard of adding yeast later for carbonating. Is that really a thing, and should I also add priming sugar? And what would be a good level for carbonating?
Was thinking of leaving it for 4-5 months in secondary.
 
I leave mine in secondary for up to 8 mo. so I make a yeast and sugar addition to the bottling bucket. 3.5 - 4 oz corn sugar to 12 oz water, boil (in microwave) and cool. In separate pyrex container boil and cool ~8 oz tap water and add 3-6 grams of CBC dry yeast. Let it hydrate until nice and creamy then put both in bucket and rack your beer. I just tried this in a keg and it starts week # 2 today,this way I can just put it in the cellar until Thanksgiving.
 
I am in Japan and cannot seem to find Sumatra coffee except for a K-cup. How much brewed coffee would you recommend putting into the brew?
 
GatorWayne said:
I am in Japan and cannot seem to find Sumatra coffee except for a K-cup. How much brewed coffee would you recommend putting into the brew?
Click to expand...
Dont use a K cup!

Find a nice cold brewed coffee, Starbucks actually makes a good one, make sure its the blackened unsweet one.

As far as how much to add, I'd start low and add as needed. How much coffee flavor do you want to come out?

I would add 1/4 cup per 5 gallons and go from there.
 
I was just trying to stick with the coffee the recipe calls for. I have a french press and we use Kona coffee so that part was easy. I will probably just grab some other grounds and toss them in the kettle. made the breakfast stout before and the coffee part was a bit too strong, not strong enough to stop me from drinking all of them though.
 
What water profile would you go with.
Read you need the correct profile for an Imperial Stout to help reduce off flavours.
My current profile

Calcium 11.5
Magnesium 2.56
Sodium 13.1
Chloride 12.4
Sulfate 26.5
 
The 11.5g KBS Clone I brewed on 12/31/15 used the following:

Ca: 100
Mg: 5
Na: 35
Cl: 60
SO4: 50

I didn't note the measurements in my software, but given those numbers the Gypsum, Epsom and CaCl additions were minor. Most of the Calcium probably came from calcium carbonate (chalk). You'll hear different opinions on this, but 50ppm Ca is helpful for yeast health. FWIW, I still have about 20 bottles from this batch and it tastes really good. I might change up how I use coffee next time, but the water profile seems good.
 
Thanks for the info Friar, couple more questions.
What would you do with the coffee next time, I think it may be a little pointless adding at flameout?
Also how did you carb them bottles up, did you prime with sugar?
Just wondering as there may be no yeast left in suspension after such a long conditioning period

thx
 
I've done this recipe 4 times and it became the starting point for my own BA stout recipes. Each brew has been progressively better. I've learned a lot about stout recipes, limitations and efficiencies of my brewing equipment, coffee and chocolate additions, aging with oak and bourbon, etc.

braindead said:
I think it may be a little pointless adding at flameout?
Click to expand...

Honestly this recipe was the first time I tried that technique and I've really liked the flavor contribution. Twice, I've skipped the cold press and only done the flameout coffee. Things I've learned? Find a medium roast Sumatra, not a dark roast. Coarse to medium grind. I have to run my counterflow chiller very slow in order to get the temp down to about 70 degrees. So I put the flameout coffee in a muslin bag and pull it after 10 minutes to keep the coffee from being at near boiling temperatures for too long and making the flavor acrid.

braindead said:
Also how did you carb them bottles up, did you prime with sugar?
Click to expand...

I've aged this recipe 10 month, 5 months and 2 months x2. Two I bottled and two I kegged. The last one that I bottled aged 2 months on oak and bourbon, 10.5% ABV. I added no yeast. At two weeks it was flat. I swirled the bottles, moved it to the warmest room in my house. Two weeks later, there was some carbination. 2-3 weeks later (7 weeks total) the bottles were fully carbed. So basically the brew had almost a 4 month conditioning period. Absolutely best batch so far.

So I've been unscientifically been experimenting with the aging durations. Somewhere I read about the different oaking techniques (chips vs cubes vs spirals vs staves vs barrels) and the turn time for getting oak flavor. At this point, my number one disappointment with this recipe has been I felt the oak flavor was almost non-existent. So I've been slowly increasing the amount of oak chips and decreasing the aging time. Now, I've never tasted or created an over-oaked beer yet (knock on wood), but I still don't think I'm getting enough oak flavor to simulate the barrel aging.

Other observations:
- Amount of cacao nibs in the boil is way too insufficient for serious flavor contributions. I've doubled the amount.
- I've also doubled the Belgian chocolate. For me this was an amazingly good improvement.
- I add Flaked Barley to the recipe. Such a good improvement to overall mouthfeel. Learned that from Yooper's help on my oatmeal stout. Was surprised not to see it in the recipe.
 
braindead said:
Thanks for the info Friar, couple more questions.
What would you do with the coffee next time, I think it may be a little pointless adding at flameout?
Also how did you carb them bottles up, did you prime with sugar?
Just wondering as there may be no yeast left in suspension after such a long conditioning period

thx
Click to expand...

I added coffee at flameout, then checked gravity with a refractometer... I should have checked gravity first, doh! The post-boil gravity was a bit lower than I wanted, so I boiled another 10-15 minutes. So in essence, the coffee was added before flameout. The beer has a bit more coffee bite than I wanted, but not too bad. Next time, I'll probably steep some coffee and nibs once my immersion chiller cools the wort to 160-180 or so. This should definitely lower the bite. I'll definitely stick with 8oz of cold brew coffee per keg at kegging time-- this definitely helped this batch.

I carb'd/aged the beer in two kegs for several months-- one keg with rum infused oak spirals (plus the soaking rum) and one keg with bourbon oak. The kegs were naturally carb'd with some DME and CBC-1. I gunned the kegs to bottles after several months.

If you bulk age the beer in a carboy, it probably wouldn't hurt to add some CBC-1 at bottling time.

FWIW, I used Kona coffee as I prefer its flavor over most other blends. Different strokes...
 
Brewing this Monday so getting as much info as possible.
Should I put the nibs in a hop sock then remove them before transferring to fermentor
 
joegbeer said:
I've done this recipe 4 times and it became the starting point for my own BA stout recipes. Each brew has been progressively better. I've learned a lot about stout recipes, limitations and efficiencies of my brewing equipment, coffee and chocolate additions, aging with oak and bourbon, etc.



Honestly this recipe was the first time I tried that technique and I've really liked the flavor contribution. Twice, I've skipped the cold press and only done the flameout coffee. Things I've learned? Find a medium roast Sumatra, not a dark roast. Coarse to medium grind. I have to run my counterflow chiller very slow in order to get the temp down to about 70 degrees. So I put the flameout coffee in a muslin bag and pull it after 10 minutes to keep the coffee from being at near boiling temperatures for too long and making the flavor acrid.



I've aged this recipe 10 month, 5 months and 2 months x2. Two I bottled and two I kegged. The last one that I bottled aged 2 months on oak and bourbon, 10.5% ABV. I added no yeast. At two weeks it was flat. I swirled the bottles, moved it to the warmest room in my house. Two weeks later, there was some carbination. 2-3 weeks later (7 weeks total) the bottles were fully carbed. So basically the brew had almost a 4 month conditioning period. Absolutely best batch so far.

So I've been unscientifically been experimenting with the aging durations. Somewhere I read about the different oaking techniques (chips vs cubes vs spirals vs staves vs barrels) and the turn time for getting oak flavor. At this point, my number one disappointment with this recipe has been I felt the oak flavor was almost non-existent. So I've been slowly increasing the amount of oak chips and decreasing the aging time. Now, I've never tasted or created an over-oaked beer yet (knock on wood), but I still don't think I'm getting enough oak flavor to simulate the barrel aging.

Other observations:
- Amount of cacao nibs in the boil is way too insufficient for serious flavor contributions. I've doubled the amount.
- I've also doubled the Belgian chocolate. For me this was an amazingly good improvement.
- I add Flaked Barley to the recipe. Such a good improvement to overall mouthfeel. Learned that from Yooper's help on my oatmeal stout. Was surprised not to see it in the recipe.
Click to expand...

Joegbeer-thank you for your notes. I am going to brew this on Monday. Few questions if you do not mind. When you refer to brewing this recipe 4 times, are you referring the OP recipe? How many oak chips would you recommend starting with and for how long in the secondary? Do you add the alcohol also?

How much Flaked Barley would you add for a 5 gallon batch? I assume you still use roasted barley also. What does the flaked barley do for you?

thank you for your time and thoughts.
 
gapabral said:
Joegbeer-thank you for your notes. I am going to brew this on Monday. Few questions if you do not mind. When you refer to brewing this recipe 4 times, are you referring the OP recipe? How many oak chips would you recommend starting with and for how long in the secondary? Do you add the alcohol also?

How much Flaked Barley would you add for a 5 gallon batch? I assume you still use roasted barley also. What does the flaked barley do for you?

thank you for your time and thoughts.
Click to expand...

I started with the original recipe and have tweaked it over time. I’m pretty set on the grain bill now. Yes, I’m still using roasted barley. I’ve had to scale the target batch size to my equipment. Flaked barley is 5% of the grain bill. Flaked Barley really helped thicken up the mouthfeel. I learned that brewing oatmeal stouts and tried it out with this recipe.

.25 oz is like 7 grams. I’ve been using medium French roast chips. Last batch I used 10 grams and I’ll probably try 12 grams next batch. Yes, I pour all the bourbon in along with the the wood chips.

My secondary conditioning testing has not been very scientific so far, but my opinion is that 6-8 weeks is sufficient.

Good luck.
 
Has anyone brewed this and added vanilla to it? Thinking about bottling half and kegging half with some vanilla beans?
 
I brewed this yesterday. First time ever making a stout. The flavor had a sweetness but was very bitter. Was not expecting that much bitterness. Is that normal for those that have brewed this before? Will the bitterness fade?
 
I used Wyeast 1056.
The fermentation has stalled at 1.030 and I want quite a few more points out of it.
Tried swirling to kick start but no joy.
Any ideas what I can do.
Maybe pitch a lil US 05?
 
I've used amylase enzyme on a batch that finished high, but regretted it. If you already tried warming to room temp., I would maybe give it a week and bottle or keg it. You didn't give an OG, but assuming you hit the 1.092 in the recipe, you're around 67% AA.
 
Unfortunately I didn't hit 1.092, I batch sparked for the first time and only hit 1.080 which i'm gutted about, never missed by so far before.
 
Last time I brewed a Stout that happened--not sure if it was a pH issue or calcium deficit. I'm pretty sure it wasn't mash temperature, but that's also possible. I don't know if you'll be able to restart the fermentation by adding more yeast. Did you aerate the wort? If you like bourbon, you could think about blending.
 
Yeah gave it a good blast with oxygen before pitching, ill be adding a good slug of bourbon though
 
My wort was extremely bitter and I was low on my gravity(1.086) so I added 1 lb dme and 1lb lactose and 1 pkg us-05 to the primary for a week. Took reading today. It was 1.023. Tasted phenomenal. Bitterness was gone and the coffee and chocolate notes were amazing. I used 5 oz of bittersweet chocolate and 4 oz cacao nibs. Going to rack cold-pressed coffee and oak chips(2 weeks on bourbon) to secondary for 4 weeks. Then adding vanilla beans for 2 more weeks. Total of 6 weeks in secondary then bottle.

What is the sweet spot for bottle aging for this beer? I plan on tasting first one at 3 weeks like all my beers but thinking 2 months + may be needed for this one. Curious to hear from others that have brewed this or something similar.

thank you.
 
gapabral said:
What is the sweet spot for bottle aging for this beer? ..... Curious to hear from others that have brewed this or something similar.
Click to expand...

For me just the bottle carbing at warm temperatures (~70F) took 4-6 weeks due to the high ABV. I would wait longer than 3 weeks to try the first one.

If your adding the cold brewed coffee at bottling time, I would argue that the best time to start drinking them is right after they've carbed. The coffee flavor is going to deteriorate the fastest. Probably stable for a year, then fading.
 

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