Crystal/CaraPils in Mash?

I am brewing up an IPA for a local brewpubs contest this weekend, and I am trying to replicate a PM IPA I made a while back but do it AG this time. The last one was really good, I am pretty much following the hop additions, but want to add more mouthiness.

The malt bill on the first one was
8# Pale Malt Extract
2# Great Western Pale Malt
1# Crystal 15L

For this one I am thinking
12# 2-row
2# Crystal 20L
2# Crystal 10L
2# Carapils

I was thinking I would mash the 2-row for an hour at 154*F, then add the crystal and carapils for 10 min, lauter, and batch sparge a couple times. I want to get all the mouthiness out of the crystal and carapils but not mash them (I don't think you can mash them anyway no?)

The main thing is that I have to keep is <8% ABV (contest rules), so the 12# of 2-row gets me to 1.067 OG (ignoring the non-fermentables from the crystal and carapils) and the yeast strain I am using got me 85% attenuation on the last AG I did with it so that takes me to a FG of 1.010 and 7.6% ABV.

Does all this sound reasonable? Any changes I should make?

Thanks in advance

Have you ever brewed a batch with 33% crystal malts? If you have and it's turned out to your liking there's nothing wrong with it.

I think that might be way too sweet for what you're looking for. Maybe go with 1 lb of each you have listed, that's ~16% crystal, still might be a bit much, but a place to start anyway.

Also, why are you only throwing in the crystal at the end of the mash? By only having it in for 10min aren't you going to get less sugars, flavor out of them? That would be my concern.

Way too much in adjunts as uwmgdman said. Try keeping your adjunts to 10% or thereabouts.
mashing at 154 would increase your mouthfeel. If you want the sweetness then just go with a higher crystal L rating and lower the amount you want.

Yeah, I gotta wonder why you would want to quadruple the amount of crystal, if it was a beer you liked before. I'd keep the same basic recipe- and mash at 154 or 155 like you said. And throw the crystal right in the mash- no reason to keep it out. I've never used great western malt so I don't know what that added in the original recipe, but you could always add some different malt along with your two row to give you some different characteristics if that's what you might be missing in the AG version. Just a thought.

For mouthfeel, I usually add around 1/2 to 1 pound of Cara Pils. 1/2 will give you a "medium" mouthfeel, 1 lb. will generally give you a "full" mouthfeel, like for a stout (this is per 5 - 5.5 gal.). You probably will want to go with 1/2 pound of Cara Pils, and up to 1 lb each of your crystal. Plus, mash temp has a lot to do with it all, so maybe mash higher (154-156) and go with 4-8 oz of Cara Pils. Change a little and learn from the changes, then adjust from there. Just my 2 sheckles.

WAY too much crystal malt, as everyone has said. All of that will be unfermentable sugar, and it will be a gooey, disgustingly cloying sweet beer.

Carapils is the best way to get body and mouthfeel. Or experiment with mash thickness and mash temperature and create the body naturally.

You have to mash carapils or you'll get starch haze. I concur with what everyone has said. But I would think that your mouthfeel should be fine without carapils for such a high ABV brew (the crystal helps with that as well).

Im doing a SNPA clone this week. Ive read a couple places where the head brewer himself said take the 60L to 12% to get the 12 SRM that it has. All the other results Ive heard from homebrewers say its a damn close clone. Ive never mashed this much crystal, so we'll see. 1.375#s of crystal malt in a 5.5 gallon batch.......

Well this should be interesting. We'll see

Dan aka Coloradoxji
You should do two small batches; one like you propose, and then one like everyone suggests. Then analyze the wort and final beer product via chromatography to see how the starting grains effect(or is it affect) your sugar profile......
or is that overboard?

Yeast Infection said:

Dan aka Coloradoxji
You should do two small batches; one like you propose, and then one like everyone suggests. Then analyze the wort and final beer product via chromatography to see how the starting grains effect(or is it affect) your sugar profile......
or is that overboard?

Click to expand...

Um, what have you been "drinking" tonight?

boo boo said:

Way too much in adjunts as uwmgdman said. Try keeping your adjunts to 10% or thereabouts.
mashing at 154 would increase your mouthfeel. If you want the sweetness then just go with a higher crystal L rating and lower the amount you want.

Click to expand...

ok,,,,what about

12# 2-row
0.75# Crystal 20L
0.75# Carapils

I need more body than in my original, and need more head retention b/c I am adding lemon and grapefruit zest which I read kill head retention.

I would suggest cutting your crystals in half and cutting 2 lbs of your 2 row at the same time ADDING 4lbs of munich malt to make up the missing 2lbs of 2row and 2lbs of crystal. Munich malt is groovy baby. Adds kick @$$ maltiness! My next IPA I'm going with 2lbs crystal 40 1/2 lbs each of carafoam and melanoidin and 10 lbs munich and 5 lbs of maris otter. Munich malt is a mashing grain that has enough enzymes to convert itself while there will be 3 lbs of specialty grains I figured I'd throw in 5lbs of 2 row to make sure there was enough enzymes to convert all the starches and the enzymes wouldn't get tied up lazing around the steeping grains. And what 2-row malt is better than maris otter? (personal opinion of course. ) I'm going to also use Simcoe, Sorachi Ace AND Cascade hops with american ale 2 (can't remember the number) from WYeast. Anyhow I meant to toss in my 2 cents and ya got about a buck fifty. My apologies, I've just been thinking about this next batch for awhile now. hehehe. (actually I think this one lands more in the barleywine category... oops...)

ColoradoXJ13 said:

ok,,,,what about

12# 2-row
0.75# Crystal 20L
0.75# Carapils

I need more body than in my original, and need more head retention b/c I am adding lemon and grapefruit zest which I read kill head retention.

Click to expand...

I think that sounds reasonable. I never have added citrus zest to a beer, but I can imagine how it would kill head retention, essential oils and all. Good luck!

Also, not including the crystal in the full mash is inviting high mash Ph, and thus very poor efficiency. I definitely do not recommend this, unless you have unusually low Ph water.

Grimsawyer said:

I would suggest cutting your crystals in half and cutting 2 lbs of your 2 row at the same time ADDING 4lbs of munich malt to make up the missing 2lbs of 2row and 2lbs of crystal. Munich malt is groovy baby. Adds kick @$$ maltiness!)

Click to expand...

Gotta love the Munich. It seems to balance out a lot of hop bitterness in some of my recipies, gives a malty flavor and perceived body.

I love Munich, too. My best beer ever was an IPA with three pounds (and not much crystal, a small amount of something low, maybe a half pound). If you're concerned about head retention, toss a half pound of wheat malt into the mix.

EDIT: Half pound of Crystal 10L, half pound of crystal 40L, the Munich, half a pound of wheat malt.

ok, final recipe, going to the LHBS

6# Marris Otter
6# Munich
0.75# Crystal 20L
0.75# Carapils

hop additions to be worked out soon.