Need advice for wheat beer recipe

First and foremost: I love dunkelweizens and I like American wheats. My favorite beer on Earth is the Aventinus wheat dopple. I do not like hefeweizens -- too sour.

Sitting at home I have:
3lbs of wheat DME
1 lb of roasted barley
2 oz tettnanger (3.9 aa)
2 oz hallertau (4.5 aa)
Wyeast 1010 Am wheat

So I'm thinking:
3 lbs wheat DME
? 2 lbs of 2 row pale malt
1/4 lb roasted barley
1 oz hallertau (60 min)
1/2 or 1 oz tettnanger (5 min)

My main question is the hops. I don't want to go overboard on the hops. I prefer malty but not cloyingly sweet brews and flat out don't like more bitter beers like IPAs. I do plan on getting some pale malt from a friend and do a partial mash to raise the gravity a little bit.

I guess the biggest problem I have is I don't know what I'm trying to make. I just want to experiment but I don't want to spend the time and money on something that is going to taste like ass. A roasty wheat beer sounds kind of tasty if it's well balanced.

Should I stick only with the DME or add the pale malt?
Suggetions on hops? Include the Tett for finishing? Use Hallertau instead?

I don't know about roasted barley in a wheat. If you want something like Aventinus, check this out...

0.20 lbs. Belgian Caramunich® info
0.20 lbs. Crystal Malt 80°L info
0.10 lbs. Chocolate Wheat Malt info
9.25 lbs. Liquid Wheat Extract info
1.0 lbs. Candi Sugar Dark info
1.0 oz. Tettnanger (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min. info
1.0 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 15 min. info
Yeast : WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen info

Make sure you ferment it on the cool side to play up the clove esters

Questions: If you don't like HWs then why are you using German hops? Wouldn't American hops be preferred?

You can still make a sweet German weizen...

homebrewer_99 said:

Questions: If you don't like HWs then why are you using German hops? Wouldn't American hops be preferred?

You can still make a sweet German weizen...

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Well he said Hefes are sour to him. I would think thats coming from the malt, not the hops. I know the Franziskaner clone has acid malt in it. No palates are the same, but I don't see Hefes as sour. American wheats are much more tart IMO. Hefeweizens are just malty goodness...

Hefe's and dunkelweizens are practially the same thing. Dunkel adds a small amount of darkening grain to a regular hefeweizen bill. they use the same hops, yeast and fermenting temp usually. You must have just had a bad hefe and a good dunkel. Or, were they from the same brand?

I use a small amount of carafa III in my dunkel

Brew a traditional American Wheat and add some Caraffa III to make it dunkle. Use an American Wheat Yeast strain and you will have more of a neutral balance.

(I like carafa II and III as well).

It is all in the yeast.

- WW

Ó Flannagáin said:

Hefe's and dunkelweizens are practially the same thing. Dunkel adds a small amount of darkening grain to a regular hefeweizen bill. they use the same hops, yeast and fermenting temp usually. You must have just had a bad hefe and a good dunkel. Or, were they from the same brand?

I use a small amount of carafa III in my dunkel

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I should have been more clear on the preferences. I don't like a lot of Belgian brews (Wyeast 3056 style). I think it's the yeast, because it's definately not the hops I have an aversion to. Beers like Widmer Hefeweizen are alright but nothing special to me.

I already have plenty of dunkel (Wyeast 3068) in my beer closet as well as a blackberry wheat (Some American wheat strain). I'm looking to experiment more with wheat-based brews. Since I have some roasted barley at home I thought I'd see how that would flavor a wheat beer.

I'm just trying to figure out how to use the hops as far as bittering and finishing goes. I notice that recipe above for the Aventinus clone (which I'm not pursuing right now) has the Tett for bittering and the Hallertau for finishing -- the opposite of what I've seen from other recipes. The other issue is how much should I use.

And since we're discussing wheat recipes, anyone know how I can clone this:


I had that at the Brickskeller in DC and I've been unable to find a way to recreate it. I could put down a case of that stuff in an afternoon.

Wyeast 3056/68 are both hefeweizen yeasts. Try some good Hefeweizens (e.g. Paulaner, Hacker Pschorr, and Weihenstephaner) and then decide if you do or don't like them...

1fastdoc said:

I should have been more clear on the preferences. I don't like a lot of Belgian brews (Wyeast 3056 style). I think it's the yeast, because it's definately not the hops I have an aversion to. Beers like Widmer Hefeweizen are alright but nothing special to me.

I already have plenty of dunkel (Wyeast 3068) in my beer closet as well as a blackberry wheat (Some American wheat strain). I'm looking to experiment more with wheat-based brews. Since I have some roasted barley at home I thought I'd see how that would flavor a wheat beer.

I'm just trying to figure out how to use the hops as far as bittering and finishing goes. I notice that recipe above for the Aventinus clone (which I'm not pursuing right now) has the Tett for bittering and the Hallertau for finishing -- the opposite of what I've seen from other recipes. The other issue is how much should I use.

And since we're discussing wheat recipes, anyone know how I can clone this:

I had that at the Brickskeller in DC and I've been unable to find a way to recreate it. I could put down a case of that stuff in an afternoon.

Click to expand...

Belgian wheats will use a Belgian Wit yeast like: WYeast 3944 or 3942

3056 is also a German (bavarian) hefeweizen yeast just like 3068. They are VERY similar. One has more of a clove nose/flavor whereas the other has more of a banana nose/flavor (3068). I am in no way trying to make you feel wrong, just help you make sure you get the beer you want.

Also, I have used roasted barley in a dunkelweizen before and it was ok, I don't think I will do it again though.

Paulaner is okay and Weihenstephaner had the sour taste I mentioned earlier (They also have the only dunkel I've had that I don't particularly care for). Hacker is a new one to me. None of them are beers I'd order at a bar. Blue Moon is alright and I'll order that if the only other options are BMC domestics and the big name imports.

I do like fruit wheat beers though as well as the dunkels, hence my desire to experiment with a wheat based brew.

1fastdoc said:

Paulaner is okay and Weihenstephaner had the sour taste I mentioned earlier (They also have the only dunkel I've had that I don't particularly care for). Hacker is a new one to me. None of them are beers I'd order at a bar. Blue Moon is alright and I'll order that if the only other options are BMC domestics and the big name imports.

I do like fruit wheat beers though as well as the dunkels, hence my desire to experiment with a wheat based brew.

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If you had Weihenstephaner that was sour, then the keg/bottles were mishandled at some point. The most common hefeweizen yeast that homebrewers use is derived from the Weihenstephaner strain of yeast. It is the best example of the style I've ever had. Of course taste is subjective

Ó Flannagáin said:

Belgian wheats will use a Belgian Wit yeast like: WYeast 3944 or 3942

3056 is also a German (bavarian) hefeweizen yeast just like 3068. They are VERY similar. One has more of a clove nose/flavor whereas the other has more of a banana nose/flavor (3068). I am in no way trying to make you feel wrong, just help you make sure you get the beer you want.

Also, I have used roasted barley in a dunkelweizen before and it was ok, I don't think I will do it again though.

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You're right, I was mistaken when I wrote the 3056. BTW, if you ferment 3068 at 78 degrees it's like eating a banana with a little beer on it. The AC wasn't working too well this summer.

Alright. I'm going to the LHBS on the way home for another airlock. I'll pick up a Weihen and try it again. It has been awhile.

3068 is the same yeast wiehenstephaner uses.

I just made my second Dunkelweizen (3068 fan), and I've had good results with Chocolate malt and Crystal (60 L), then using Hallertau with Saaz to finish. In fact, I just cracked one open last night while I was doing inventory (2+ weeks in the bottle) straight out of the case and it was really damn good.

I must ask, this acid taste you speak of, do you associate it with the banana esters that you get from 3068? I'm just curious how you can be such a fan of Dunks while Hefe's turn your stomach. No judgement here, just trying to understand.

Cheers,

IndyPABrewGuy said:

I just made my second Dunkelweizen (3068 fan), and I've had good results with Chocolate malt and Crystal (60 L), then using Hallertau with Saaz to finish. In fact, I just cracked one open last night while I was doing inventory (2+ weeks in the bottle) straight out of the case and it was really damn good.

I must ask, this acid taste you speak of, do you associate it with the banana esters that you get from 3068? I'm just curious how you can be such a fan of Dunks while Hefe's turn your stomach. No judgement here, just trying to understand.

Cheers,

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I understand the question and I was just reading through the style guidelines trying to find an answer.

Hefe's don't exactly turn my stomach but there is a quality I don't care for. I think I used the term sour because a friend recently brewed a Hefe, which everyone seems to like, that I found distasteful. I couldn't finish it.

Dunkels were my first intro to non BMC beers about 12 years ago and I've loved them ever since. My dunkel is very banana heavy so it's not that quality that bothers me.

I'm going to drink a Weihan in a couple hours and see if I like it.

I noticed you used Hallertau and Saaz for you dunkel. Mine was all Hallertau. Have you used Tettnanger in any wheats and if so, was it much different that using Hallertau hops?

1fastdoc said:

I understand the question and I was just reading through the style guidelines trying to find an answer.

Hefe's don't exactly turn my stomach but there is a quality I don't care for. I think I used the term sour because a friend recently brewed a Hefe, which everyone seems to like, that I found distasteful. I couldn't finish it.

Dunkels were my first intro to non BMC beers about 12 years ago and I've loved them ever since. My dunkel is very banana heavy so it's not that quality that bothers me.

I'm going to drink a Weihan in a couple hours and see if I like it.

I noticed you used Hallertau and Saaz for you dunkel. Mine was all Hallertau. Have you used Tettnanger in any wheats and if so, was it much different that using Hallertau hops?

Click to expand...

Don't go by something someone brewed to rule out the style. I've substitute Tettnanger for Hallertau only for bittering with no difference. It may make some difference if you substitute for flavor/aroma...

1fastdoc said:

I understand the question and I was just reading through the style guidelines trying to find an answer.

Hefe's don't exactly turn my stomach but there is a quality I don't care for. I think I used the term sour because a friend recently brewed a Hefe, which everyone seems to like, that I found distasteful. I couldn't finish it.

Dunkels were my first intro to non BMC beers about 12 years ago and I've loved them ever since. My dunkel is very banana heavy so it's not that quality that bothers me.

I'm going to drink a Weihan in a couple hours and see if I like it.

I noticed you used Hallertau and Saaz for you dunkel. Mine was all Hallertau. Have you used Tettnanger in any wheats and if so, was it much different that using Hallertau hops?

Click to expand...

I've been racking my brain trying to find something that I would consider sour in Hefes. I actually think American Wheats are more "sour" than Hefes. I think I may know what you're refering to. Sometimes in a hefe that's been around for a while, there's a "twinge" at the end that I could definately see being classified as sour. But that's in hefe's that have been around a few months. I don't know. It could be the yeast itself. I've noticed that there's a distinct difference in taste between beers in which I swirl the dregs and add to my pint and those that I don't. And that's not just this style. I've done this with homebrews and have gotten a not so pleasant flavor in the first few drinks.

As for Tetnanger, I haven't used them. This Dunk is the first recipe I've made multiple batches of, and I'm trying to nail down my recipe to have as a house beer, so I haven't really deviated too much from my original recipe, just a few tweaks.

Picked this up on the way home:


After trying it I think I bought the wrong beer. Oh well, it tasted pretty good.

my wheat beers, that me and everyone else like quite a bit, use wyeast 1010, and hallertauer hallertau hops. i like everything about your recipe BUT the roasted barley. straight up drop the roasted barley, ferment on the lower end (64F would be ideal), and you'll have a tasty brew. i can't stand hefes either. a cool fermentation with 1010 will give you what you're looking for. i'd even consider moving that second hop addition back around 15 minutes. you're looking at less that 20 IBUs. i typically prefer a little more flavor than aroma from my late hops. i tend to think that the aroma you'll get from 5 min is out of place for a wheat, but that's just my opinion.