Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:

22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)
4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)
2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc

Projected SRM - 19.5
Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU
Projected ABV - 7%
 
That looks nice Reddskinfan!

Hey just wanted to say it's gonna be a few weeks before I can do my Side By Side comparison/tasting. Having nasty blood pressure problems and to play it safe so as not to interfere with med titration, doctor told me no alcohol until things stabilize, estimate two weeks he thinks. Hopefully I can at least get the kegs finished carbonated - but that seems unlikely without anyone to drink what already tapped since I have a lager (IPL!) going in the ferm / carbing freezer.

TD
 
I've been thinking about a mix of my two favorite beers, Pliny the Elder and Arrogant Bastard - Pliny the Bastard.

Pliny the Bastard would be the grain bill and hop schedule of Pliny but with all Chinook. The malts are:

84.5% 2 row
6.5% Carapils
6.5% Corn Sugar
2.5% Crystal 60

Target SG is 1.073 and the wort fermented with WLP001.

How does an all Chinook DIPA sound?
 
I've been thinking about a mix of my two favorite beers, Pliny the Elder and Arrogant Bastard - Pliny the Bastard.

Pliny the Bastard would be the grain bill and hop schedule of Pliny but with all Chinook. The malts are:

84.5% 2 row
6.5% Carapils
6.5% Corn Sugar
2.5% Crystal 60

Target SG is 1.073 and the wort fermented with WLP001.

How does an all Chinook DIPA sound?

Like Tree House Sap, one fantastic beer!!!:D
 
Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:

22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)
4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)
2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc

Projected SRM - 19.5
Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU
Projected ABV - 7%

Almost forgot my 2 tsp of Gypsum in the updated recipe.
 
Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:



22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)

2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)

4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)

1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min

2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins

1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)

2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer

2 tablets Whirfloc



Projected SRM - 19.5

Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU

Projected ABV - 7%


How many gallons is that for??

I don't think that it's possible to put enough hops into this. I suspect that stone is probably using hop extract.
My first try over a year ago, I missed the bitterness mark. This time I used a full pound of pellets in the boil plus leaf in the steep/0 minute additions for 11/10 gallons finished beer. I've also noticed with my burners, that I need to crank up the boil a bit for max hop utilization, otherwise end up with under bittered beers. Could be Lupulin shift effect I suppose...

TD
 
How many gallons is that for??

I don't think that it's possible to put enough hops into this. I suspect that stone is probably using hop extract.
My first try over a year ago, I missed the bitterness mark. This time I used a full pound of pellets in the boil plus leaf in the steep/0 minute additions for 11/10 gallons finished beer. I've also noticed with my burners, that I need to crank up the boil a bit for max hop utilization, otherwise end up with under bittered beers. Could be Lupulin shift effect I suppose...

TD

10 gallons. Actually, looking at it again, with that steep, the IBUs are projected at 102. Hopefully the Gypsum helps give it edge too.
 
This thread is endlessly inspiring... The sheer volume of posts all focused on this one beer... It has spawned so many ideas in my head that I have applied to other recipes.
 
After talking to some brew buds at our most recent Group Buy pickup, I am going to change things a little in an attempt to get more hop aroma/flavor from this hop schedule:

23 lbs 4 oz Pale Malt (89%)
2 lbs 4 oz CaraAroma (9%)
8 oz CaraPils (2%)

1.00 oz Chinook [13%] - FWH
3.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 15 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 10 min

***Remove boil hops***

***Add whirpool hops***

5.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 15 min stand

1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) - 4L starter, decanted

2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc
2 tsp Gypsum

Projected SRM - 19.3
Projected Bitterness - 101 IBU
Projected ABV - 7.2%

Whatcha think??
 
Why would you remove the boil hops? They'll keep adding flavor during the whirlpool, won't they? Or do you have them in a spider preventing a proper whirlpool?
 
Why would you remove the boil hops? They'll keep adding flavor during the whirlpool, won't they? Or do you have them in a spider preventing a proper whirlpool?

They would become more isomerized, so adding to bitterness, too. I think the flavor compounds might get cooked off, and that's what we are looking for here. Just an attempt. If it doesn't work, I go back to the old schedule.
 
I think it's going to be a lot darker than you want with that much caraaroma, which has a pretty high L° as I recall.

As far as the hops, I like it, but I would still suggest that you simply cannot add enough hops to this recipe. I used an entire pound of pellets during the boil and an additional 6 oz of leaf hops for flame out for ten gallons.

Other than that, I think you are on the right track.
 
I think it's going to be a lot darker than you want with that much caraaroma, which has a pretty high L° as I recall.

As far as the hops, I like it, but I would still suggest that you simply cannot add enough hops to this recipe. I used an entire pound of pellets during the boil and an additional 6 oz of leaf hops for flame out for ten gallons.

Other than that, I think you are on the right track.

I have my CaraAroma in Beersmith as 180L. Even with that, color is still under 19.3 SRM. My last batch was 20.5 SRM and I thought was only slightly dark, maybe 1-2 SRM...

I dropped from 13.5% CaraAroma to 9%, upped the 2 Row to 89% from 86.5% and added .5# of CaraPils for head and body, which the last example slightly lacked. I also thought hops were close last time, but we're just missing a little flavor and aroma. The hop schedule and forgotten Gypsum from last batch should address that. I plan to have this one done before our next Group Buy for others to try (hopefully).
 
They would become more isomerized, so adding to bitterness, too. I think the flavor compounds might get cooked off, and that's what we are looking for here. Just an attempt. If it doesn't work, I go back to the old schedule.

We talked about that on Saturday, trying to mimic more of the process Stone or any other larger craft brewery goes through. I still have the feeling that timing, duration, and prevailing temperatures during the various stages is essential in that process, e.g., it takes them longer to transfer the wort to the whirlpool tank than it takes us to hook up a hose. So all that time those late hops deliver their charge at say 210-190°F.
 
We talked about that on Saturday, trying to mimic more of the process Stone or any other larger craft brewery goes through. I still have the feeling that timing, duration, and prevailing temperatures during the various stages is essential in that process, e.g., it takes them longer to transfer the wort to the whirlpool tank than it takes us to hook up a hose. So all that time those late hops deliver their charge at say 210-190°F.

Agreed, but we don't know if part of the trick is to remove the boil hops to make room for whirpool hops getting better flavor utilization.

Anywho, I am sticking with this and it will be a good experiment.
 
Sounds like you've got a handle on this!
I think I get a lot of wort carmelization during the boil with my system. Hard to control Amber and darker beers from being too dark. Need to be in tune with your system to get color right, which I think is the most difficult part to nail consistently.

Hopefully this week or next I can do a SBS on my latest effort. Planning some st pats day brews and going to rack the IPL. Should have a narrow window for carbing a few kegs in the Ferm freezer after kegging the IPL before the next lager takes up residence.

TD
 
Pliny The Arrogant Elder Bastard

The recipe below is the base for Pliny (More Beer), with CaraAroma subbed for C40, bittering by Chinook, and dry hopped with Chinook, Columbus, and Centennial. SRM will be a bit darker from the CaraAroma. The beer fermented with WLP001 (Pliny) instead of WLP007 (Bastard).

Do you think 147 IBUs of Chinook will be overpowering? The Pliny recipe with Magnum, Simcoe, Columbus, and Centennial is 153 IBU (per Beersmith).

The resulting beer should be dry, like Pliny, but bursting with Chinook goodness.

Looking for feedback.

----------
Batch Size: 6 gallons (to account for dry hop absorption)
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.0 %
Bitterness: 148.4 IBUs

13 lbs. Pale Malt (2 Row) - 84.5 %
1 lbs. Carapils - 6.5 %
1 lbs. Corn Sugar - 6.5 %
6.1 oz. Caraaroma - 2.5 %

3.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 90 min
1.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45 min
1.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30 min
2.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0 min

Ferment with WLP001

Dry hop
2 oz. Columbus
1 oz. Centennial
1 oz. Chinook
----------
 
Need to use an English yeast at about 15 psi and 68 degrees in a 40 bbl conical to get the flavor right.
 
Mine is carbonated and drinking good! side by Side comparison with photos coming soon. Having a friend try it also to see if it's "cloned" or not. I'm thinking one potential change would be elimination of first wort hops. AB has an aggressive bitterness to me and FWH is supposed to create a more smooth bittering. Next time will use some HOPSHOT extract in boil.
TD
 
So had the side by side today. Friend came over to give his input too. He is also a craft beer fan and homebrewer.

So consensus is that the flavor is near indistinguishable. Body actually a little smoother on mine, ironically more alcohol presence in the Stone version. Mine has a little brighter hops, possibly due to freshness of the bottle? Don't know where to read the bottled on date for the AB bottle I had.

Mine remains slightly darker, but clearer - the Stone beer had a haze that never quite cleared. Color not off by much. Mine more enjoyable to drink, perhaps due to lower FG and less satiating to the palate, however, both are total palate wreckers in terms of the overpowering hops. GONE is the raisin-like flavors of version 1.0.

I'd post photos but, I'll probably add them later from my phone as an edit...

Overall, I think I might cut the chocolate malt addition in half to lower color, and maybe increase the Carapils to raise FG, IF I wanted an exact clone, however I think mine is more enjoyable to drink! Might cut the total grains to bring ABV down - mine was 1.072 OG/ 1.011 FG = 8.1% ABV, and STILL mine is smoother with less alcohol presence.

Photos pending.

I think CaraAroma is IT!

TD
 
Glad to hear consensus on CaraAroma! I still think the Chocolate isn't needed, but will find out on my next batch.

P.S. I might split my next attempt between WLP007 Dry English and WLP013 London Ale.
 
Yes I think chocolate probably not needed. The caraaroma really nails it. The chocolate I used as it was hinted at by some who are more in the know than I am. Mine turned out too dark so, there ya go. Mine also turned out stronger ABV wise. Odd, last time I nailed the numbers. This was 8.1% abv. Still. Mine has less alcohol bite. I wonder if they had temp issues with the batch I was drinking during fermentation, or maybe I fermented lower. Anyways, it's great beer and a great recipe any way you slice it.
I think my hopping rate was dead on, except perhaps swapping FWH for 90 minute addition or more likely a dose of hop extract. The FWH smoothness of the bittering I think is out of keeping with the Real AB

TD
 
Is your hopping schedule the one with 6oz of home grown Chinook?

Yeah that is mine. I posted the side by side pics.
I'd suggest maybe skipping the chocolate malt. That was a decision I made after a tour of a particular Escondido brewery. I think my recipe is good but for color my clone is too dark. I will.point out that many of my beers turn out darker than planned I suspect because I boil aggressively.
 
Is your hopping schedule the one with 6oz of home grown Chinook?

Yeah that is mine. I posted the side by side pics.
I'd suggest maybe skipping the chocolate malt. That was a decision I made after a tour of a particular Escondido brewery. I think my recipe is good but for color my clone is too dark. I will.point out that many of my beers turn out darker than planned I suspect because I boil aggressively.
 
Stone does a 90 minute boil, so aggressive boiling is probably okay with this beer.

Happiness is...thinking your last keg had kicked and finding 5 gallons of AB clone in the back of the cellar!! Woot! I gotta brew soon! Also found 5 gallons of cider, so I have time...was sweating bullets there for a few days thinking I had kicked everything...

I brewed this in DEC and it has certainly lost a lot of the hop bitterness, though the flavor is still there if that makes sense. Might be time to slap together the randall I keep meaning to build.
 
My second stab at this was kegged today.......

....I really doubled up the hops for this round. I had FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5 minute additions at 2 oz each (goodbye Mr. 1 pound pellet hop pouch). For the steeping/flame-out/whirlpool hops I added my homegrown Chinook - 6 oz worth.

Hydro sample was bitter as to be expected, and I think will be on par with AB. Mine is also very light of body it seems, and that too seems in line with the real deal. I am very excited about this brew.


TD
What IBUs did you get with this hopping Sched? Planning on giving your version a whirl 5gallons though and no homegrown hops But a bit concerned it'll be over bitter compared to AB with that sched.
 
I don't think it is possible to "over hop" this beer. My bitterness came out pretty dang close to the real stuff. I did an actual side by side comparison and posted my results earlier in this thread, probably not too far back from this point.
I don't recall the beersmith IBU prediction, but I suspect it was 100+ range.
As I used homegrown hops for the late additions, I'm not really sure about the actual IBUs. By tasting I can tell you that this recipe is probably 99% of what the real ab recipe is. I might remove the chocolate malt next time. The color is the hardest to nail. I would be cautious about underestimating the amount of bittering hops you need for this recipe. It is far easier to under-hop this beer, which ends up then being out of balance, and not very enjoyable.

TD
 
Mashing is as we speak. BIAB version.
20litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

Have to say that the mash didn't look like 20srm... Time will tell
 
Had this beer over the weekend for the first time in a while. Probably not as fresh as it could be... I did notice the "spicy" character that this beer has. Do you guys think it's the hops that causes that? To me, it almost comes across as rye, but I could be wrong.
 
Had this beer over the weekend for the first time in a while. Probably not as fresh as it could be... I did notice the "spicy" character that this beer has. Do you guys think it's the hops that causes that? To me, it almost comes across as rye, but I could be wrong.

you sure its not the resin-y, Chinook taste?
 
you sure its not the resin-y, Chinook taste?

It certainly could be. Just pointing it out that there's a definite spicy note in there I don't get often from other IPAs. I have yet to make the recipe here so it may well be an existing component of the recipe.
 
My Pliny the Bastard came out great. With 100% Chinook in the kettle, it was double dry hopped with Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, and Cascade. With a base of 2 row, CaraAroma, CaraPils, and corn sugar, it fermented with WLP001.

The color is close to AB and the taste is out of this world.

A dry hopped AB would be awesome.
 
Mashing is as we speak. BIAB version.
20litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

Have to say that the mash didn't look like 20srm... Time will tell

Bottled this on the weekend.despite my comment above the colour turned out a brilliant scarlet - very similar to the original. The sample i tasted at bottling didn't have the bitterness of the original though but I'll know more when it has conditioned for a few weeks.
 
Bottled this on the weekend.despite my comment above the colour turned out a brilliant scarlet - very similar to the original. The sample i tasted at bottling didn't have the bitterness of the original though but I'll know more when it has conditioned for a few weeks.

Yeah, I think the key to bitterness and hop character is Gypsum. I am thinking somewhere between 350-450ppm.

I think the grain bill that I used is spot on. The rest is the hops/water profile.

Again, this is my opinion.

:mug:
 
I added gypsum but probably a bit shy of 350ppm. A couple of weeks till official taste test and side by side so hard to say right now but at a guess I'd say I'd need to up 60min hops by ~20g and maybe even add a 30min addition.
 
Back
Top