Late adding yeast!!! is it wrecked?

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Heffy

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Hey, finally I found a great place to discuss home brewing. Well I just made my second batch of beer last night. India Pale Ale, coopers brewmasters. I am new to this and I think I messed up. I boiled it really good then added ice and water to bring the temps down, but! it was still around 90-100 and it recommends 70-80 so I put it outside to cool off. 2 hours later it was still around 82 so I brought it in and added yeast. This was when I noticed that it said add yeast immediatly after. Its not quite 24 hours later and its not bubbling at all. Is there anything I can do? What is soo bad about not adding the yeast right away? Could I possible add more yeast. Please help!
Thanks
 
You should be fine. It needs to be cooled before you add the yeast, no if's, and's or but's. 82 should be safe, I generally aim under 80. The reason for wanting to add the yeast as soon as possible is that the faster the yeast gets started the less chance a contamination has to get started. As long as you were sanitary you shouldn't have a problem.
 
Your fine. It can take me up to 4 hours in summer before I am to pitching temp for adding yeast. But you did misread the label. You only want to pitch once you're below 80; preferably below 75. If you pitched right away (if you meant after the boil, then you'd probably be screwed.
 
Whoa. There are a few things you may want to review about sanitation first and foremost! You don't want to add ice water directly to your wort, and leaving it outside for 2 hours is just asking for contamination. You want to invest in a wort chiller coil or put the kettle in an ice bath to cool that sucker in 20-30 minutes, and get it sealed and out of contamination's way.

As for the yeast, did you do a starter? Were they dry or liquid?
 
Well, you want to add yeast as soon as you get the wort down to pitching temps (usually below 80 degrees). The sooner you get the yeast started, the sooner they can start multiplying. The longer your wort sits without the yeast, the longer other organisims (ie bacteria) have to get a foothold. Once your yeast get going, they can block out minor levels of bacteria.

Now if you followed a reasonable level of sanitation, etc, you don't have much to worry about.

Concerning the lag time: Did you use a starter? Was is liquid yeast?
 
The only reason it said add yeast straight away is that your beer would be open to infection once cooled. You want to get it into the fermenter and add the yeast as soon as possible so that the yeast re-produce and start producing CO2 (a by-product of fermentation) asap (CO2 will protect the beer from airborne microbes). You should be okay though, as long as you kept the pot covered whilst it cooled down.

Also, you want to try and cool down as quickly as possible to get a good "cold break", which means the proteins precipitate out of the wort and limit the production of off-flavours.

I think you'll be fine. 82F is okay for pitching the yeast...a little high, but it won't hurt.
 
If you kept a lid on it while outside to cool, you should be fine. It is more important to get the temperature down to range than pitching the yeast too quickly. Not unusual at all for the yeast to show no activity in 24 hours. If no bubbles in 72 hours, then I would pitch yeast again. Beginning with a yeast started quickens the activity. You're just suffering from typical beginner's anxiety, everything should turn out fine.
 
Well, I put ice in and cold water from my tap then it was still high after that and I didnt want to go past 22 liters so I put it outside my door with the lid on. Should it not be bubbling now? Thats what I am worried about.
 
JRoche00 said:
Whoa. There are a few things you may want to review about sanitation first and foremost! You don't want to add ice water directly to your wort, and leaving it outside for 2 hours is just asking for contamination.

Many brew outside... how do you keep the contamination issue under control?
 
It sometimes takes longer than 24 hours for bubbling. Some other things...is your lid on tight? If not, gases may be escaping there and not through the airlock. Remove the airlock and peek through the hole...is there a layer of kraeusen (foam)? If so, you're fermenting. If you don't have any signs of kraeusen whatsoever, it may time to hunt some more yeast.
 
Well, I just checked it out and there is no foam or bubbles on the top like I had with my last brew. I put the packet of yeast they gave me with the beer in. Should I put some more yeast in? I have normal yeast to make bread with, how much should I add? All these answers are great, thanks a lot!
 
Do not, under any circumstances, add bread yeast. If your yeast is kaput you're going to need new brewer's yeast. If the HBS is convenient, I would be inclined to swing by and get some more. Otherwise, wait till tomorrow and if there's still no sign of activity pick some up then.

Make sure everything is sealed down really tight.
 
What BG said. Skip the bread yeast and get some brewers yeast. You can get a couple packets of dry yeast fairly cheaply either locally or online.
 
Heffy said:
Well, I just checked it out and there is no foam or bubbles on the top like I had with my last brew. I put the packet of yeast they gave me with the beer in. Should I put some more yeast in? I have normal yeast to make bread with, how much should I add? All these answers are great, thanks a lot!

I use bread yeast all the time... for bread. It comes out great every time I should add. How it comes to thought to use for beer... I'm clueless.... did they once use this yeast for beer or something....? This is not the first time using bread yeast for beer has crept up in the forum in my very short time I have been here...
 
I've used bread yeast for converting non alcoholic beer to alcoholic and to make wine. But I don't recommend it, just a matter of having no other choice under the circumstances. I believe it contributed to undesirable ester alcohol though. But that was also caused by high fermenting temperatures.
 
Michael_Schaap said:
Many brew outside... how do you keep the contamination issue under control?

I'm not talking about brewing outside, I mean leaving a cooled wort outside for 2 hours. Everything I have read and heard has advised against this for sanitation purposes. Not to say that it WILL get contaminated, but I wouldn't just leave my wort sitting out without a fear of something infecting it. Especially if I didn't do a yeast starter.
 
I used the yeast with the Coopers kit and it took about 24-28 hours to get going. I pitched mine a little bit too soon as well but I did have a nice foamy top when I checked it after a day.
 
"Well, I put ice in and cold water from my tap then it was still high after that and I didnt want to go past 22 liters so I put it outside my door with the lid on. Should it not be bubbling now? Thats what I am worried about."

If you put tap water in you may have introduced a problem.

1 - If you have city water the chlorine may have done in your yeast.

2 - If you have well water there is probably some bacteria in it.

You didn't say if you boiled the water first.

I have a well.
I catch myself going to the tap for rinsing etc all the time. I keep a few gallons
of boiled chilled water around for that purpose.
 
I live in the country and have well water. We just tested it and its perfect or I would of never used it. This is my second batch and I used the same water and everything for the first batch and it turned out fine. It still isnt bubbling today and it still smells like wort, not like my other batch after I added yeast. Im thinking that the yeast could of been expired or something. I am going to go buy some yeast from a brew store today and add it. I threw out the old yeast packet so I dont even know the expiry date. All these responces are great and Im learning a lot which is one of the greatest things about brewing my own.
 
sorry for the double post, but I just opened up the lid and I could smell the yeast and see it starting to form at the top. It still isnt bubbling and its sealed really tight. I think I will hold off on getting more yeast and see what happens.
 
I wasn't saying your well is tainted. Just that all wells have some level
of bacteria. Even buying bottled water I would still boil the water.
Unless it was distilled. Many of the bottled waters are simply filtered city water anyway.

So did your brew take off?
 
I think he said he added it after the boil to bring the volume up and cool the wort down. Please correct me on this if that's not the case, Heffy.
 
jazzbass said:
Even buying bottled water I would still boil the water.
Unless it was distilled. Many of the bottled waters are simply filtered city water anyway.
There's no reason to boil bottled water...by law it's both filtered and sterilized. And distilled water shouldn't be used for brewing, unless you're adding minerals/salts back in.
 
My practice for all these years has been to use PUR filtered tap water in 1 gal (milk-style) plastic bottles and place them in the freezer for several hours prior to brewing.

I only boil 1.5 gals. Most of the time I pour 2 gals into the primary then the wort then top off to 5.5 gals and my temp is down into the 70s almost immediately.

I've never had problems doing this. And certainly never had a bacteria (ring around the bottle neck) problem.
 
Ya, I boiled 2 litres of water and added the ingredients to that. The rest of the water came straight from the tap. I did this before and my beer turned out fine. Well its bubbling now... and also smells terrible. The bubbler thing at the top is filled with yellow? and some bubbles are coming out the top. I didnt fill it too much but everything suddenly bubbled up a lot. It smells like food gone bad/and wort. There is brown stuff on the lid and a ring around the inside of the bottle. There WAS an air leak, everything was on right but there was some dried up wort (from this batch,I made sure to clean everything REALLY well) letting air seep out where I plug the bubbler into. So... it had that leak for almost 3 days. I will be very upset if this batch is gone due to contamination, but its my own fault. I have learned a lot about contamination and feel its due to putting it outside to cool off and having an air leak, if its contaminated.
 
That yellow color with the bad smell makes me think you're generating sulphur dioxide. Not often I would say to give up on a batch, but if it smells like food gone bad, it seems you have a real problem. Doesn't sound like this one is correctable. Wash and sanatize the hell out of all your equipment.

 
It certainly doesn't sound promising, but I don't think I'd give up on it quite yet. Some yeast strains produce an unpleasant amount of sulphur during the fermentation. What kind of yeast did you use?
 
I am not sure on the yeast I used, just what came with the setup. I know I cant get the very unpleasent smell out of my nose. I could take pics but I dont think I can upload them to this site or post them. The top looks like foam with little brown blotchs.
 
Yeah, sounds like some of the kreusen (proteins and hop residue) got in the airlock and mixed with the water. Happens a lot. No worry there.

The sulphur smell is common in a lot of yeast, particularly Hefe Weizens. It will dissipate. Don't worry.

Keep us informed.:D
 
I moved my beer away from the heater so it would frement at cooler temps, I have read a lot that its better to frement at a lower temp. It still smells funky and when I put my nose close to smell it, it was almost like I sniffed pepper or something because it burned my nose. Very disturbing!. Its still bubbling a lot and its not foamy at the top anymore. There is a ring where all that crap was around the bucket. It will be a week tomorrow, so I am planning on moving it over to my secondary frementer if the bubbling slows down. I might give it an extra day or two if its still bubbling a lot. I still havent taken any readings because it just smells really bad and I want to wait for it to settle down a bit.
 
The ring around the bucket is just crust from the kraeusen (most likely), so that's fine. Smells are so subjective it's hard to say it's good or bad based on that without a firsthand sniff. It should be easy to spot if anything's growing in it once it's in the secondary.
 
Oh wow, thats one of the reasons that I havent hydrometer tested it yet because I just cant imagine drinking it when it smells the way it does. Very hard smell to identify, definatly not the same as my last brew.
 
Well I took a hydrometer reading, my og was 1.042 and my reading now is 1.022. I also made the mistake of trying it even though the smell makes me want to gage. It is semi carbonated and is really sour and tastes like someone pour vinegar into my batch. I cant see this **** turnin out. Is there still hope?
 
These will help you in the future: A vinegar flavor can be caused by not rinsing all the bleach off your equipment.

Common Brewing Problems
Not everything always goes to plan and it's not always obvious to a new homebrewer why. Listed below are
just some of the common faults that may cause your process to fail.

OXIDATION - Oxidation is a common beer off flavor. It is most commonly perceived as flavor and aroma that is stale, cardboardy, or like wet paper. It can also, particularly in stronger, aged beers, be perceived as sherry-like or winey, having flavors of brandy, prunes, sour wine or over ripe fruit, and sometimes like old, stale vegetables. It can also cause the beer to darken and become hazy.
Oxidation occurs during the brewing process. The reaction occurs in finished beer most often during the racking after primary fermentation and during bottle filling. These are the times to be most careful in avoiding unnecessary splashing of the beer.
Oxygen, if introduced at this stage, will chemically react with beer flavor compounds, causing the beer to grow stale. Heat and warm storage will accelerate the oxidation process.
No fermentation Yeast past the sell by date, or stored incorrectly.
No fermentation Yeast incorrectly treated. Make sure that you have re-hydrating the yeast before adding to the wort.
No fermentation Conditions are too hot. Maybe you used boiling water. Add new re-hydrated yeast to the correct temperature wort.
No fermentation Conditions are too cold. Make sure the wort and yeast are heated correctly.
No fermentation Thermal shock has occurred. When the yeast is pitched into the wort, both should be around the same temperature. Pitch new re-hydrated yeast at the right temperature.
Lazy Fermentation Lack of preparation of the yeast. If dry yeast was used (as used in kits), re-hydrate before use. Liquid yeast requires warming and feeding in a starter.
Lazy Fermentation Too cold. Room temperature may have dropped overnight. Try to keep the wort temperature constant.
Lazy Fermentation Not enough aeration. Did you mix enough air into the ingredients?
No Air-lock Activity The seal around the lid or air-lock may be damaged.
No Air-lock Activity Air-lock may be blocked. Usually caused by vigorous Fermentation. If this occurs, switch to a large diameter blow off tube or expect the ingredients to expel rapidly!
Inconsistent results A variable must have changed. e.g. different temperatures, different yeast strain, different ingredients, less sanitation etc.
Mould on wort Poor sanitation. Try skimming the mould off and taste the beer, without further contaminating it. If taste is bad, dispose of beer.
Smell - rotten eggs Are you brewing lager? If so, this may be normal. Wait a while.
Smell - rotten eggs Poor sanitation or bacterial contaminated ingredients. Taste beer after fermentation and make decision then.
Smell - vinegar Poor sanitation or bacterial contaminated ingredients. Taste beer after fermentation and make decision then.
Smell - vinegar You have a wild yeast strain or contaminated yeast. Taste beer after fermentation and make decision then.
Smell - Musky Beer has been stored for a long time in direct sunlight. Some lamps / lights will also cause this problem. Brown beer bottles are better than green ones, and may help to overcome this problem.
Taste - apples You are drinking your beer too soon! Let the beer condition for longer.
Taste - sharp alcoholic Temperature too high during fermentation (above 80°F typically) . Keep cooler next time.
Taste - sharp alcoholic Too much yeast present. Add less next time.
Taste - Sherry Oxidisation of the wort has occurred above 80deg. F. Lower the temperature or / and make sure the wort has less exposure to air, next time.
Taste - Soggy Cardboard Oxidisation of the wort has occurred above 80deg. F. Lower the temperature or / and make sure the wort has less exposure to air, next time.
Taste - vinegar Poor sanitation leading to bacterial contamination. If you like it, drink it, if not chuck it!
Taste - mould Poor sanitation leading to bacterial contamination. Try skimming the mould off the wort and continue brewing. Watch for further out-brakes. If it is too bad then expect the beer to be undrinkable.
Taste - bitter Are you making bitter? Is so, it should, it's bitter!
Taste - bitter Poor sanitation. Bacteria often causes a 'bitter' taste. Learn from your mistakes.
Taste - bitter Did you knock the scum from around your bucket (first brewing process) into the beer? This scum tastes really bitter! Don't do it again.
Taste - soap You have left the fermenting beer in the first brewing process too long (bucket). You should have checked the gravity reading and barrelled soon after the reading became stable at the correct range (depends on beer type).
Taste - cidery Are you making cider? It should be, it's cider!
Taste - cidery Did you follow an old brewing process? i.e. did you add sugar to the first brewing process (bucket)? Change your kit and processes.
Taste - cidery Has it been particularly hot during fermenting? Keep cooler next time.
Taste - cidery Possible bacterial contamination. Sanitise properly next time.
Taste - buttery Poor sanitation. If it is an ale, it may taste OK. If it is a lager then it may not taste so good.
Taste - buttery Did the beer suffer from a long lag-time ( lazy fermentation )? If so, this may be the cause.
Taste - vegetables Are you making lager? This may be normal.
Taste - vegetables Poor sanitation. Sterilise all equipment thoroughly
Taste - Grass Are you using an all grain brewing method? Did you store you ingredients correctly? Bad storage is the usual cause.
Taste - Cloves Have you used a chlorine based sanitiser? Rinse with boiling water after sanitisation to remove chemical taste. Possibly try another make of sanitiser.
Constant air-lock activity See 'Lazy fermentation'.
Constant air-lock activity Poor sanitisation, leading to a bacterial infection. If beer has no taste or body, then this is probably the case.
No carbonation Did you remember to add the correct amount of sugar to the second brewing process / barrel? Add a little more sugar and try again.
No carbonation How long has the beer been in the barrel? Should be OK by 2 weeks. If it's been over a month try shaking the barrel to get the yeast back into suspension.
No carbonation Your room / background temperature may be too low. Move your barrel to a warmer room for a while.
Over carbonation Did you add more than the recommended priming sugar to the second brewing process / barrel? Release the CO2 by opening the top of the barrel (or bottles) and re-sealing. Beware of exploding containers!
Over carbonation Bacterial contamination or wild yeast is present. Vent the CO2 as above. Drink the beer, although it will be tasteless
Cloudy beer Have you given your beer enough time to ferment in the second brewing process / barrel? It will take from 2 weeks to a month. Fining agents can be used (see glossary). I have been informed that pubs / bars add carbonated lemonade to fix this problem (if it has not cleared after a month), but I have never tried!
Cloudy beer Incorrect yeast strain. Try another type of yeast next time.
Cloudy beer Are you using an all grain brewing process? If you had to use mashing you could have starch left in the beer. Check for the correct temperature mash and mash for longer.
Cloudy beer Did you have to boil your water before adding it to the wort? If so, you may not have left it cool long enough before adding the yeast.
 
Doesn't sound good. The only contamination I've ever had occured in one batch of a brown ale I bottled. About 1 in 10 bottles of that ale tasted almost like lemon juice while the rest were fine...I'm not sure what I did during bottling, but I definitely got some kind of souring contamination.

I didn't drink the soured ones...
 
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