Sour Wheat Beer - 1 month - with bugs

So keep in mind that this is from grain to glass in a month, but I kegged it. Obviously if you bottled this you'd want to let it ride as this beer easily could have gone down a few more points, but I was very happy with where it was and decided to keg it up.

I made a sour wheat beer. It's part hefe, part berliner weisse and dry hopped to boot... but all in all an outstanding beer.

So what I did was a pretty low gravity (1.046) half pilsner half wheat, mashed low (148). I pitched lactobacillus all by itself first and let it ferment for 24 hours, then I pitched WLP670 (American Farmhouse) and Wyeast3068. In a month it was tart, sour and ready to be kegged. The FG was 1.007 when I kegged it. I have a feeling the brett and the lacto could have knocked off a few more points over a couple months, but for my taste it was ready. I threw two ounces of citra in the keg with it.

The result is a little bit funky, a touch fruity, dry, tart, lemony sour and hoppy wheat beer that looks damn good in a JK tulip.

Nice! I did a similar beer recently- less wheat and more pils, on Bugfarm IV. Yours has a great head on it in that shot!

NICE, doing something similar, 50/50 wheat and pils, citra @ 5 min with forbidden fruit. making a 1 gallon batch, no hops, pitching lacto and then splitting the original batch in half, 1 half will be the control and the other will get the lacto and bing cherries..

ChadChaney said:

NICE, doing something similar, 50/50 wheat and pils, citra @ 5 min with forbidden fruit. making a 1 gallon batch, no hops, pitching lacto and then splitting the original batch in half, 1 half will be the control and the other will get the lacto and bing cherries..

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Sounds like a great beer. I've never used the forbidden fruit before though. What's that taste like?

I washed and saved my dregs. I was mostly just wanting to see if I could get a complex sour flavor in a shorter time. I can't wait to pitch the cake into a bigger beer.

Have you had any of the brett/lacto beers from JK?

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Have you had any of the brett/lacto beers from JK?

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Yes. Wunderkind and boxers revenge. Both great beers.

You recipe sounds similar to how Jolly Pumpkin makes their Weizen Bam (minus the dry hopping). WB is a lower gravity funky farmhouse wheat beer that they turn around pretty quick (a few weeks I believe). They don't start with lacto though, so yours may be a bit more tart, but I love the idea of a quick turn funky sour. I'll have to try this when a carboy opens up.

Homebrewtastic said:

Yes. Wunderkind and boxers revenge. Both great beers.

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They were pouring boxer's revenge at the tour a couple of weeks ago. Easily the best beer poured. I wish I could find that stuff in the bottle...

ReverseApacheMaster said:

They were pouring boxer's revenge at the tour a couple of weeks ago. Easily the best beer poured. I wish I could find that stuff in the bottle...

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It is bottled but extremely difficult to come by as their production is small on it. Most places only get a single case at a time. I put on a JK beer dinner a month ago and Jeffrey Stuffings came out for it (super nice guy btw) anyway he said another round of boxers was to be available within the next month or so. I still have a bottle if anyone wants to trade for it. Looking for RR and JP Madrugada.

bigljd said:

You recipe sounds similar to how Jolly Pumpkin makes their Weizen Bam (minus the dry hopping). WB is a lower gravity funky farmhouse wheat beer that they turn around pretty quick (a few weeks I believe). They don't start with lacto though, so yours may be a bit more tart, but I love the idea of a quick turn funky sour. I'll have to try this when a carboy opens up.

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Quite honestly I was surprised at how quickly it turned around. The beer was mostly just an experiment. And actually my inspiration for it was the from reading about the weizen bam. I have no access to JP in Texas, but I loved the sound of it. I think however (based off of descriptions) that mine is more tart, it's kinda on par with lemonade in terms of tartness.

Sounds great. Was this no-boil? Where there any other hops other than the dry hops?
I love my berliner weisse, and can't help think it would be amazing with some dry hops.

elproducto said:

Sounds great. Was this no-boil? Where there any other hops other than the dry hops?
I love my berliner weisse, and can't help think it would be amazing with some dry hops.

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Standard 60 minute boil. A half ounce of willamette in the mash. I was going for as little IBU as possible, and mash-hopping is said to get 70% utilization vs. a boil.

elproducto said:

Sounds great. Was this no-boil? Where there any other hops other than the dry hops?
I love my berliner weisse, and can't help think it would be amazing with some dry hops.

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And also I think any really citrusy American hops will work well, especially amarillo. My SWMBO says that it tastes like grapefruit juice with the citrusy hops and acidity.

I'm starting to wonder about how else to employ this method for more souring projects. For example I have plans to brew a sour saison with peaches and plums (which I've made before but with sour mashing). I'm now wondering if I can ferment clean, then ferment fresh peach and plum juice with strait lacto for a day and then blend the two together.

Homebrewtastic: Was there any funk at all in that beer? Its really hard for me to believe there would be any contribution from the Lacto or the Brett. Lacto usually takes over a month and a half just to start souring and then goes through a sick phase. Even giving it a 24 hr head start I don't see how there would be any sourness. Brett usually takes 6 months to even contribute any flavor at all.

What were your fermentation temps? I'd love to be able to do a quick sour, glad it worked out for your. I have a Sour Wheat going now with Brett Trois, Brett C, Lacto and Wyeast Belgian Wheat. I'm gonna do a Sour Abbey soon as my Berliner has only a pint or so left in the keg. I've got a decent lacto starter all ready to go.

jusware said:

Homebrewtastic: Was there any funk at all in that beer? Its really hard for me to believe there would be any contribution from the Lacto or the Brett. Lacto usually takes over a month and a half just to start souring and then goes through a sick phase. Even giving it a 24 hr head start I don't see how there would be any sourness. Brett usually takes 6 months to even contribute any flavor at all.

What were your fermentation temps? I'd love to be able to do a quick sour, glad it worked out for your. I have a Sour Wheat going now with Brett Trois, Brett C, Lacto and Wyeast Belgian Wheat. I'm gonna do a Sour Abbey soon as my Berliner has only a pint or so left in the keg. I've got a decent lacto starter all ready to go.

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Actually yes, it's quite sour and a small amount of Brett funkiness. Lacto usually takes that long to do its job for two reasons, one is IBUs and the other is alcohol. Both of those things slow down lacto. So by pitching lacto prior to the sacc there was no alcohol to slow it down.

Just to give you an idea of what lacto is capable of, it can turn milk to yogurt in a manner of hours. Also it's not the lacto that gets sick, it's the pedio. Themadfermentationist.com just wrote a great post on Berliners and fermenting with lacto, there's some great info on there.

My fermentation temps when it was straight lacto was mid 70s, if I wanted to I could have increased it to help it out. While the results of this beer were great it still lacked the complexity of a well aged sour beer or lambic. But this is a solid method or anyone who wants a sour beer in a hurry, and thinks that sour mashes usually taste gross.

I'm brewing a version of your recipe. I've read that Lacto doesn't like oxygen, and I was thinking about waiting until I added the Sacch and Brett before aerating the wort. Any thoughts on that plan?

Inspired!
I am going to have a go like this;
pils and flaked wheatOR triticale with a little acid malt and a SG of about 1028-1030
15 minute boil
pitch lacto starter which I am growing up at th mo, into the brew kettle.
let it go for a few days.
rack to FV and shake like it owes me money the day before payday, then pitch a big starter of Brett B Trois.
what do you think?

Homebrewtastic - I'm inspired to give your method a shot. I was thinking about a sour Raspberry wheat for the spring. Did you make a starter at all for any of the strains you used?