Fermenting S-04 Cleanly

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KISS Brew

KISS Brew

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I'll be making a variant of Yooper's Fizzy Yellow Beer in the near future. It would be more convenient for me to use S-04 in place of US-05, but I could be talked out of this.

I've convinced myself this is a good idea for beer clarity, since I know from experience that S-04 flocs out extremely well. I'm concerned about flavor contributions. I've never used S-04 in such a light beer before.

Have you had a good/bad experience fermenting S-04 "cleanly"? At what temperature, and for what style of beer?

Thanks!
 
S-04 ferments cleanly as well, it just doesn't attenuate quite as much as US-05. FWIW, I've used S-04 in a cream ale before, and the slight added sweetness from the residual sugars was a nice addition. I fermented between 63F and 65F. I'm actually considering using S-04 in my cream ale style beers going forward.
 
I like s04 in the low 60s. Ferments clean, drops clear, and leaves you a couple points higher than us-05. I haven't used it in anything as light as a cream ale but I say go for it.
 
KISS Brew said:
I've convinced myself this is a good idea for beer clarity, since I know from experience that S-04 flocs out extremely well. I'm concerned about flavor contributions. I've never used S-04 in such a light beer before.
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If temperature control is a concern you could consider Nottingham. It flocs like a champ and is clean well into the low 70's.
 
I'll give it a shot in the low 60s and report back.

Thanks again for the advice, everyone. :mug:
 
niquejim said:
So you don't like it when a British yeast gives the beer a British taste:D
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Ha- that's really not the case for the other dozens of yeast strains. But both nottingham and S04 get weird estery, not pleasant estery, at a pretty low temperature. I think nottingham is positively foul above 72 degrees, while I like Wyeast 1335, 1098, and 1318 even at 75 degrees.

S04 gets a weird flavor above 70, but not as bad as nottingham. But fermented cool (59 even, for nottingham), both are clean and leave a clear beer behind.
 
Yooper said:
Ha- that's really not the case for the other dozens of yeast strains. But both nottingham and S04 get weird estery, not pleasant estery, at a pretty low temperature. I think nottingham is positively foul above 72 degrees, while I like Wyeast 1335, 1098, and 1318 even at 75 degrees.

S04 gets a weird flavor above 70, but not as bad as nottingham. But fermented cool (59 even, for nottingham), both are clean and leave a clear beer behind.
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This is concerning... I chose 04 for my ESB because the recipe called for it and it made sense. Plus, the Fermentis info states that this is okay to about 75F. My basement is at about 70, and the fermentation brings that up to about 74-75. Hope it's okay...
 
tytanium said:
yes, it should be just okay. Probably not good or great, but okay.
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grrr

My Nut Brown (not completely done clarifying, but completely done fermenting) tastes amazing with s-05 fermented at the same temperatures. The Fermentis info shows both of these yeasts working well at the same temperatures. Also, I've always wondered whether the temperature range listed by Fermentis are temperatures in the environment (room) or within the fermenter during full activity.
 
I always have issues with my S-04 flocculating. It takes a month + to do so and is still not as clear as the same batch that was split and fermented with us-05 after the first week and a half in the primary (from which all yeast has settled out of suspension) and I ferment low enough.. around 16degC
 
I'm using it for the first time right now. I'm using a swamp cooler and have kept it at 64-66 for first two days and today it got up to 68 for a little while and I knocked it back down. I'm thinking that probably wouldn't effect it too much at this point. The krausen's falling so I'm guessing I got through the most critical part. Reading these posts got me kind of nervous about it lol.
 
I ended up using the S-04 in my Blonde Ale, which I bottled last night. The hydrometer sample tasted clean, but I'll definitely be updating when I have a cold and carbonated final product to judge.
 
Not sure if this helps but lately I have been brewing 10 gal batches and splitting them, half with s04 and half with s05.

The s04 batches have been a bit sweeter with lots more hop flavor. Although the hop flavor starts to disappear after about a month.

The s05 batches are drier with more hop bitterness evident.

As time passes the more similar they taste.
 
Well I took a gravity reading because the krausen started to fall and the airlock was showing slowed activity. 1.013 right now. Not bad. Only problem is, it isn't the best taste. But then again, it has only fermented for 48 hours. I'll hold off judgement until about 2 weeks from now =P
 
With all this talk of English yeast, I thought I would mention that many, if not most, English breweries actually ferment their beer quite cool. Like 60-62F, with a maximum temp of no more than 67-69F!

I don't know where American homebrewers get the idea that English yeasts make better beer at 70F, but that's not really the case at all. And if you look at pitching temps, most are around 58F... and that goes back to the late 1800's. Just something to think about.
 
bierhaus15 said:
With all this talk of English yeast, I thought I would mention that many, if not most, English breweries actually ferment their beer quite cool. Like 60-62F, with a maximum temp of no more than 67-69F!

I don't know where American homebrewers get the idea that English yeasts make better beer at 70F, but that's not really the case at all. And if you look at pitching temps, most are around 58F... and that goes back to the late 1800's. Just something to think about.
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You may be right, but where did you get this info? (Keep in mind, I'm not saying one should ferment at 70.)
 
afr0byte said:
You may be right, but where did you get this info? (Keep in mind, I'm not saying one should ferment at 70.)
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For historical beer, here is a good place to start. http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

For the modern stuff, I've been reading the JIB (Institute of Brewing, Journal) since I took brewing classes while living in Ireland.

I'm not saying fermenting English yeasts warm, or at 70F, won't make good beer. It's just not as normal of a practice as we might think.
 
Well damn it! I've got ten gallons fermenting with it right now. It better be good! Maybe someone else can chime in about how crappy it's going to be lol.
 
jsguitar said:
Well damn it! I've got ten gallons fermenting with it right now. It better be good! Maybe someone else can chime in about how crappy it's going to be lol.
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I didn't know what "estery" meant until I did KingBrianI's Common Room ESB with S-04 at around 65F ambient (so probably 70F actual). Not entirely unpleasant, but wow, the yeast just destroyed any other flavors in that beer.

Actually, only other time I used it was for a 2-Row/Centennial SMaSH that came out a little bready to my surprise. Probably that yeast. I liked it!

Temperature control is everything. I have a freezer rigged up to a temperature controller now and I'm doing a tour of the yeasts I had previously written off, starting with Notty and S-04 (next up)!
 
jsguitar said:
Well damn it! I've got ten gallons fermenting with it right now. It better be good! Maybe someone else can chime in about how crappy it's going to be lol.
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I've made some good beers with S-04. It can definitely get fruity if you don't control the temps, though. I've not noticed this bready character people mentioned, but I haven't used S-04 in quite a while.
 
jsguitar said:
Well damn it! I've got ten gallons fermenting with it right now. It better be good! Maybe someone else can chime in about how crappy it's going to be lol.
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A lot of people seem to like it, I wouldn't be too worried if you kept temps under control!
 
jsguitar said:
Well damn it! I've got ten gallons fermenting with it right now. It better be good! Maybe someone else can chime in about how crappy it's going to be lol.
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Well, friend... I had a day of 74 degree s-04! Then could only get it down to 69! Mines about 7 gallons. So, We are in the same boat.

Trust me, I'll still be drinking mine.
 
JordanThomas said:
Well, friend... I had a day of 74 degree s-04! Then could only get it down to 69! Mines about 7 gallons. So, We are in the same boat.

Trust me, I'll still be drinking mine.
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Ha ha, I'm sure it will be good, and like you I'll be drinking it either way!

:mug:
 
JordanThomas said:
Also, I've always wondered whether the temperature range listed by Fermentis are temperatures in the environment (room) or within the fermenter during full activity.
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Since it appears nobody's answered you, I will. Their temperature range actually (technically) refers to neither one of what you said, but it's much closer to the latter. The temperatures they, and every other yeast company refers to, is the temperature of the wort/beer in the fermentor at ANY GIVEN TIME. A small but important difference. It's certainly what the fermentor should be at peak activity, but it's also what it should be at when it's just getting started and/or winding down, when their isn't quite so much activity.

So how do you know what the room temperature should be to make sure the fermentor temperature is ideal? You can't. In fact, there is no such temperature in the first place.

That should highlight the major disadvantage of trying to indirectly achieve a certain ferm temp by merely controlling the room temp. An ideal fermentation system uses temperature feedback from the fermentor itself to control the ferm temp DIRECTLY.

Whether this is done automatically with a temperature controller, or manually with a swamp cooler and bottles of ice, directly controlling ferm temps is a significant step forward for ANY brewer and will doubtlessly result in better and more consistent beer.
 
ChessRockwell said:
And I can talk all the s--- I want, but I drank every last one of mine :)
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Hahaha, perfect. I personally loved one of the more estery IPA's that Founders had on tap about 2 months ago. If it has any of those qualities, I'd be proud, even if it turns others off.

emjay said:
Since it appears nobody's answered you, I will. Their temperature range actually (technically) refers to neither one of what you said, but it's much closer to the latter. The temperatures they, and every other yeast company refers to, is the temperature of the wort/beer in the fermentor at ANY GIVEN TIME. A small but important difference. It's certainly what the fermentor should be at peak activity, but it's also what it should be at when it's just getting started and/or winding down, when their isn't quite so much activity.

So how do you know what the room temperature should be to make sure the fermentor temperature is ideal? You can't. In fact, there is no such temperature in the first place.

That should highlight the major disadvantage of trying to indirectly achieve a certain ferm temp by merely controlling the room temp. An ideal fermentation system uses temperature feedback from the fermentor itself to control the ferm temp DIRECTLY.

Whether this is done automatically with a temperature controller, or manually with a swamp cooler and bottles of ice, directly controlling ferm temps is a significant step forward for ANY brewer and will doubtlessly result in better and more consistent beer.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the answer. This makes sense, so I guess next beer I'm just going to use a swamp cooler the whole time. I've got it going now and my temps are lower than they were, so now I just play the waiting game. Tick-tock.
 
This thread seems to be dead but I came across it while doing some research on English yeasts, specifically S-04 so I wanted to contribute my recent experience. I made a dark English mild and a red English bitter fermented at 60-62F and it came out great. Fermentation was done is 3 days and the beer is clear. It is slightly fruity from the yeast but within style guidelines--overall I am very pleased with this. A few weeks earlier I made a higher gravity old ale and I thought it would be nice to have some fruity esters. I fermented at 70F and I got plenty of esters, but these overwhelmed the malt and hops and were inappropriate for the style. It also made the astringency from a tiny bit of black and chocolate malt stand out (not sure why). I bottled it and it might improve with age, but I wont ferment English styles high again. However I can see how fermenting S-04 high might be ok for hoppy American pale ales and IPAs.That is my report in case anyone is still reading.
 
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21C (70F) is not high for English beers. That is a fairly standard fermentation temperature across most traditional styles. The first brewery I worked at used Saf-04 as it’s house strain fermented at 21.5C.

Fermenting low at 18C is not a British thing I’ve come across, except at the start of fermentation, but then it’s left to free-rise to 22C.
 
I fermented at the lower end of the temperature range of S-04 at the recommendation of a chemist from Fermentis. I also know that many English beers are often fermented at 68-70 but these recent batches I made fermented clean and have some great English esters. I didn't expect the beer to come out that good, to be honest.
 

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