Little giant pump 3-MD-HC

Will this pump work for brewing? Little Giant Pump Company

Might be able to get my hands on one or two for <$50 each....

It's only rated to 200F temperature wise. So you could probably use it for pumping from MLT->BK or fermenter transfers after cooling, but not for chilling.

What if you used it after plate chiller?

Are you planning to gravity feed the plate chiller?

sure...why not? Thats how I do it now......

Temperature ranges are to be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't think twice about using it for boiling wort. Often times temperature ratings (or any other rating) are simply made at whatever the highest temperature that the equipment would be expected to be used in the typical application for the piece of equipment.

The housing is made from Ryton, which is a proprietary plastic made by Chevron Phillips. Here is a quote directly from the Chevron Phillips website:

PPS (Ryton) has not been found to dissolve in any solvent at temperatures below about 200°C (392°F).


It's up to you...

mmmmm ryton beer..........

I've been using a Little Giant mag drive pump for a number of years without problems. I use it exactly like most use the March pumps including moving near boiling wort and hot water. The max temp ratings relate to the max line pressures which can be as high as 200 psi in some cases. We home brewers are dealing with only a few psi at most, so it's nothing to be concerned about. IMO, the LG pumps are higher quality than the March pumps. They run much more quietly and the motors have ball bearings. The owners manual says it can run dry up to eight hours without damage. That statement alone tells me a lot about the quality. Unfortunately, the LG's are a little more expensive than the March pumps from most suppliers.

Catt22 said:

I've been using a Little Giant mag drive pump for a number of years without problems. I use it exactly like most use the March pumps including moving near boiling wort and hot water. The max temp ratings relate to the max line pressures which can be as high as 200 psi in some cases. We home brewers are dealing with only a few psi at most, so it's nothing to be concerned about. IMO, the LG pumps are higher quality than the March pumps. They run much more quietly and the motors have ball bearings. The owners manual says it can run dry up to eight hours without damage. That statement alone tells me a lot about the quality. Unfortunately, the LG's are a little more expensive than the March pumps from most suppliers.

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weizen; I would jump on those pumps in a hot second, grab all of them ya got lucky on this one.

Also look at the LG pump at 1/12 hp vs 1/25 hp of the March pump.

What's the price of a new LG vs a March pump at $119 and higher?

Ball bearing vs a bushing motor plus twice the hp that alone has me looking as
I sold the last March pumps with the last brew system. Next system will not be
pumped with March pumps that I already decided long ago.

JKoravos said:

Temperature ranges are to be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't think twice about using it for boiling wort. Often times temperature ratings (or any other rating) are simply made at whatever the highest temperature that the equipment would be expected to be used in the typical application for the piece of equipment.

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+1
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I just powered up my 3-MD-HC dry for a few seconds and the impeller rattles a bit. I won't get to a wet test for a while (too much else going on)... is this likely to subside when run properly? I double-checked, and the bushings on either side of the impeller are on the drive shaft correctly, and if I run the motor without the impeller, it's dead quiet, so it's definitely the impeller.

Add a fittings to the inlet and outlet for a quick test, slip some tubing on both after filling the pump full of then reconnect the tubing, plug it in. It will become silent within a couple seconds. Congrats on a great pump find and price. I went to them sold what I called "Mangled" or March pumps, what an improvement. One LG has been running 24/7 for almost 3 years now on the Koi pond filtering system. Ball beating vs bushings a no brainer in a quality pump. A bearing can be replaced no worries.

Funny timing, this thread. I used one of these pumps for 10 years until I had to take a break from brewing. After 5 years without it, I'm rebuilding and improving my rig and am using the same pump, but mounting it vertically this time. Long story short, I powered it up dry to test my control panel last night and it made a bunch of noise. So I wouldn't worry about it. Note that these pumps are rated for 8 hours of dry running, so they're super resilient. Being out of it for a few years, I'm actually surprised that March pumps are as popular as they are. I think these LGs are better in every way...


MrH

I already have the fittings on it, as you can see in my thread:
Brew Controller

I just won't have a chance to hook it up to a water source for a while. Good to know that once it's fluid filled it'll be fine... what I was expecting.

I've used my brew-club's 809 and it's ok, but can't really whirlpool in my kettle at all, and doesn't have a tremendous flow rate. But the 3-md-hc pumps usually cost a good bit more than the 809's. I got lucky on eBay and got mine for $135. No comments on the /really/ lucky board member who got two for about $85 each.

I figured that with some water in there to push against and help float the impeller that it would be fine.

Try this link: search

Your impeller is going to rattle if you run it dry. It's just friction. Stick the inlet under the sink to get the parts wetted, then try firing it up (not while in the sink!).

A little off topic, but is there an issue with connecting metal fitting directly to these pump heads?

Looking around Austin Homebrew Supply I saw the following and was wondering if people actually used these?

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_33_82_344&products_id=11184

I was just planning to use a male 3/4" Tri for the inlet and a female 1/2" for the outlet, anyone see any issues with this, or should I find some kind of 3/4" protective coupling like shown above? Also if there an issue going from a 1/2" Tri to a 3/4" Tri? They should both be 1.5", but I've never worked with Tri clamps before.

evandy said:

I've used my brew-club's 809 and it's ok, but can't really whirlpool in my kettle at all, and doesn't have a tremendous flow rate. But the 3-md-hc pumps usually cost a good bit more than the 809's. I got lucky on eBay and got mine for $135. No comments on the /really/ lucky board member who got two for about $85 each.

I figured that with some water in there to push against and help float the impeller that it would be fine.

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Evandy, you mention that you are unable to whirlpool with the 809? Are you whirlpooling through a counterflow or an immerison chiller? Does this meant that you are able to whirlpool with the 3-MD-HC?

When doing really light beers I want to whirlpool in the kettle so that I can leave the cold break behind. I've done this with my 809, but it is SLOW. I just bought a 3-MD-HC, and am hoping this helps with speed?

http://myworld.ebay.com/trader-drew/ this is where I bought mine 3 months ago... Seems like they are getting a bit more popular.

I am whirlpooling through a CFC, since it's what I have. I just got the 3-MD-HC, so I won't know how well it works until it's above freezing outside.

I picked up 2 of these for my new build on Ebay for $89... I cant wait to use them!

Everybody here must be looking for them now. They are going for at least $150. When are the HBSs going to start selling these. If I'm going to pay a lot for one, I'd rather give it to AHS or BMW.

egurney said:

Everybody here must be looking for them now. They are going for at least $150. When are the HBSs going to start selling these. If I'm going to pay a lot for one, I'd rather give it to AHS or BMW.

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$150 isnt a lot... most of them are retailing for about $230 or so. If you can get one with the high temp head for $150, that is a deal over retail.

The Pol said:

I picked up 2 of these for my new build on Ebay for $89... I cant wait to use them!

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Lucky you. I got mine for 130

evandy said:

Lucky you. I got mine for 130

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That is still $100 under retail!

egurney said:

Everybody here must be looking for them now. They are going for at least $150. When are the HBSs going to start selling these. If I'm going to pay a lot for one, I'd rather give it to AHS or BMW.

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Be careful when looking at eBay that you're looking at the full pump, and not just the pump head. You can occasionally find the full pump for < $200, but most listings around 150 are for just the pump head, without a motor at all.

Yeah, these pumps are really quite pricey. There was a guy selling them new for $89 so I jumped on it. He raised his prices almost daily and sold out each day.

Yep. I got mine from trader-drew too. I wonder where he got them so that he's making any money off them.

The Pol said:

Yeah, these pumps are really quite pricey. There was a guy selling them new for $89 so I jumped on it. He raised his prices almost daily and sold out each day.

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Yeah, I got one from him for $150, and noticed he's added "Great for home brewing" in the item description. They're still a really good deal though. I'll be using a March 809 & a Little Giant. Looking forward to comparing them. I believe they are a lot quieter than the March pump, as well as self priming.

I bought a used pump for 80 bucks. Hope I don't die from all the chemicals and/or sewage it was used for.

klyph said:

I bought a used pump for 80 bucks. Hope I don't die from all the chemicals and/or sewage it was used for.

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An overnight soak in Oxi Clean should remove any residual chemicals & sewage.

I tried this post yesterday, but was in a little too much of a hurry and think it’s a little confusing.

I just recently got a Little Giant 3-MD-HC pump and am planning to connect it to tubing using Tri Clover clamps. I see Austin Homebrew Supply sells a polypropylene coupling because “threading metal fittings onto the pump head can damage the pump’s threads”. Replacement heads for the 3-MD-HC seem to be in the $100 range and I’d rather not mess up my threads and have to worry about getting a new head. I’m thinking for getting a 3/4" to 1/2" reducer for the inlet, link below, and then threading a 1/2" female Tri Clover onto the reducer.

I’d like to get peoples thoughts about this. Will a reducer make it harder to prime? Should I just go with a 3/4" polypropylene nipple and then thread a 3/4" Tri Clover onto that? If I do go with a 3/4" nipple and 3/4" Tri Clover will I have any issues connecting a 3/4" Tri Clover to a the 1/2" Tri Clover on the end of my tubing?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00270ZS5I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Keep the inlet full size at 3/4", any inlet restriction or fitting reduction size has a big reduction in the pumps performance. Reducing the outlet isn't a problem as with a valve on the outlet to throttle the flow down.

JKoravos said:

Temperature ranges are to be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't think twice about using it for boiling wort. Often times temperature ratings (or any other rating) are simply made at whatever the highest temperature that the equipment would be expected to be used in the typical application for the piece of equipment.

The housing is made from Ryton, which is a proprietary plastic made by Chevron Phillips. Here is a quote directly from the Chevron Phillips website:

PPS (Ryton) has not been found to dissolve in any solvent at temperatures below about 200°C (392°F).


It's up to you...

Click to expand...

I think this is worth discussing, and I have one of these pumps on the way.

There is more at play in the temperature ratings than just the materials used in the pump. I think that if it was a good idea to use these pumps at boiling temperatures, the manufacturer would certify them to that temperature. It would help them sell more pumps.

Since it is a self-priming pump, it must draw a suction at the inlet of the pump. If it didn't, it couldn't self prime. When you have liquid at close to its boiling point, and drop the pressure, you can drop below saturation pressure and have cavitation. Essentially boiling at the inlet, and those bubbles collapsing at the outlet. I don't know if that is why they are only rated to 200F, but it might be.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation:
Suction cavitation

Suction cavitation occurs when the pump suction is under a low-pressure/high-vacuum condition where the liquid turns into a vapor at the eye of the pump impeller. This vapor is carried over to the discharge side of the pump, where it no longer sees vacuum and is compressed back into a liquid by the discharge pressure. This imploding action occurs violently and attacks the face of the impeller. An impeller that has been operating under a suction cavitation condition can have large chunks of material removed from its face or very small bits of material removed, causing the impeller to look spongelike. Both cases will cause premature failure of the pump, often due to bearing failure. Suction cavitation is often identified by a sound like gravel or marbles in the pump casing.

In automotive applications, a clogged filter in a hydraulic system (power steering, power brakes) can cause suction cavitation making a noise that rises and falls in synch with engine RPM. It is fairly often a high pitched whine, like set of nylon gears not quite meshing correctly.

I think that if Little Giant could ensure that they would operate well at 212F, they would say so. They could sell more pumps. They would be able to be used in more applications.

It's just something I thought was worth discussing.

I've been watching the last several auctions for these on eb@Y.

Today's pump went for $180. looks like he is selling them one at a time now - a much better way to make the most $$.

Unfortunately this is what ebay is great at - putting a small number of bidders up against each other to really drive the price up. Look at the increase in the last month, <90 to now 180! That alone makes it hard to stomach. Add to that a healthy dose of skepticism about some of the 'bidders' and it really makes me HATE using the fleabay.

Arrrgh

Just venting because I don't have one.
jason

diatonic said:

Since it is a self-priming pump, it must draw a suction at the inlet of the pump. If it didn't, it couldn't self prime. When you have liquid at close to its boiling point, and drop the pressure, you can drop below saturation pressure and have cavitation. Essentially boiling at the inlet, and those bubbles collapsing at the outlet. I don't know if that is why they are only rated to 200F, but it might be.

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Where did you get the idea that these are self-priming? I've been using one for 15 years, and while it may be a lot of great things, self-priming it certainly aint. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen a mag coupled pump that was self-priming. In fact I think that would be incredibly difficult to pull off considering the relative weakness of the magnetic coupling. We rarely pump at true boiling temps. Unless you're pumping while actively boiling, the temp drops pretty quickly at flameout, especially if you whirlpool before cooling. I know that for my setup, by the time I start pumping the temp is usually down to around 204F, which is really barely over the rated temp. Like I said, 15 years and I'm still using the same head and haven't seen any crazing at all.

MrH

Thanks MrH! Not sure why I thought they were self priming, but good to hear from someone who has so much experience with one. I'll chalk it up to trying to consume too much information while enjoying homebrew lately

diatonic said:

Thanks MrH! Not sure why I thought they were self priming, but good to hear from someone who has so much experience with one. I'll chalk it up to trying to consume too much information while enjoying homebrew lately

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Geeze, you're really confused diatonic! I think you meant consuming too much homebrew while enjoying information hehe .

Anyway, on the priming front, I always had trouble priming mine, but the version I have has a 1/2" inlet. I think you all will have a much easier time achieving and keeping prime with a 3/4" inlet. While upgrading my rig this time around, I have mounted mine vertically and higher up (closer to my kettles) so hopefully I'll have an easier time with it. I've also installed a drain at the lowest point in my plumbing for ease of cleaning and just in case I need to encourage the prime.


MrH

I was thinking add a radiator drain petcock near the top of the pump inlet to let the trapped air escape, the most mess will be just a couple of drops when filled with liquid. PNW, like in Washington state?