Lagering in Primery to reduce lager time?

I recently came upon this article: http://***********/stories/wizard/article/section/121-mr-wizard/875-how-do-commercial-breweries-lager-so-quickly

While the whole thing is interesting, there was one bit there that caught my eye:


The article goes on to talking about non-flocculent yeast and recirculating lagering, both of which are not particularly useful to me. But it did make me wonder about something: If yeast contact is something I want, why am I racking to secondary? Could I avoid my usual four-to-six weeks lagering time by leaving the beer in primary, doing a diacetyl rest, and lagering in primary for say, two weeks? (Perhaps with additional finning three days out from bottling to help the yeast sink?) Any thoughts from you lager-heads out there?

I'm not a big lager brewer, but I would like to be. So far, what's keeping me away is that I have only one fridge, and making a lager takes about 2-2.5 months. If I could a month off that, I would cream beer foam. Seriously.

I usually lager in primary on the yeast for two weeks at 31 degrees and then move it into the keg and keep it at about 40 degrees while the beer continues to lager as I drink it.

In listening to Jamil on the brewing network, it seems that the best way to reduce amount of layering is to ensure very controlled fermentation. Pitch big, pitch cold, warm up over the course of main fermentation. My understanding is that by doing this, you reduce the amount of undesirable yeast by-products (Diacytal precursors, etc) and end up with cleaner beer that doesn't need much time.

I don't personal experience with this, so take this all with the appropriate grains of salt - just trying to give you ideas.

ArcaneXor said:

I usually lager in primary on the yeast for two weeks at 31 degrees and then move it into the keg and keep it at about 40 degrees while the beer continues to lager as I drink it.

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this is what I do. Works great. Always gone just when its really getting good though.

ArcaneXor said:

I usually lager in primary on the yeast for two weeks at 31 degrees and then move it into the keg and keep it at about 40 degrees while the beer continues to lager as I drink it.

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Which begs an interesting question: At what temperature can you call it "lagering"?
I ferment at 10-11C, and try to Lager at 4, but usually only make it to about 6 (old fridge, and SWAMBO keeps opening it, despite warnings) with temp spikes to 7+. This is a far cry from lagering at 31F (-1C).

I guess a more general question is "what's the connection between temperature and lagering/conditioning?" Arguably, the low temperature is so the yeast will drop out. But if we want the yeast to keep working at the fermentation by-products, wouldn't we want them to stay a little more awake? In that case, wouldn't "lagering" a bit warmer (say 40-45F) be better?

We had a discussion about ideal lagering temperature on here a few months back. It seems counterintuitive, but if the goal of lagering is to reduce undesireable flavour compounds, the higher the temperature the better (to a certain extent). The beer matures more quickly. Lagering somewhere in the 40s is probably the best way to accomplish that.

If, instead, the goal is to get that clean, crisp lager character, then going low for a long time is the way you accomplish that.

Read the link in my signature if you really want to get serious about brewing lagers. My own practice is to ferment to within about 8 gravity points of FG, then start a diacetyl rest that might last for a week, then rack the beer to secondary and crash to the low 30's and keep it there until I package it which is usually at least a few months. I also have a lot of cold storage capacity so I've got beers that have effectively been lagering for a year in the bottle.

I lager in my primary...probably because I did it by mistake my first time but I don't see any ill effects.

I think there needs to be a bit of a distinction here. Once yeast settles out, it is not very metabolically active and contributes very little to the "active" maturation of the beer. During lagering there are both biological, and strictly chemical (no yeast required) reactions occurring. It is the yeast that are still in suspension that are doing biological maturation - those are the yeast that you want to have contact with. I believe when they say you want the yeast in contact, what they mean is that you don't want the beer to prematurely clear - that will slow down the maturation process

osagedr said:

Read the link in my signature if you really want to get serious about brewing lagers.

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+100 for the link osagedr! I'm only half-way through the article but it is already one of the most informative things I've ever read on the topic. Thanks a lot!

boist said:

+100 for the link osagedr! I'm only half-way through the article but it is already one of the most informative things I've ever read on the topic. Thanks a lot!

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Glad you are enjoying it. All the credit is Braukaiser's.

What was this link? It doesn't appear to be in your signature anymore.

fuzzybee said:

What was this link? It doesn't appear to be in your signature anymore.

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I would also like to see this haha