Why are my starters always erupting?

Howdy,

I made 2 starters this week. A friend and I are going to split a 10 gallon Tripel. Mr Malty called for a 1L/1 vial starter for 5 gallons. As an experiment I made 1 starter of WPL530 and one of WPL550. Both were made with 200g of light DME and a pinch of yeast nutrient in a 2L erlenmyer flask with a stirrer and a foil cap. Both spewed thick tan yeast all over the outside of the flask and table in about 24 hours. This seems to happen to about 80% of the starters I make.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I just need a 5L flask?

Thanks.

You're going for 1.040 with a yeast starter, and by my math (which very well may be wrong), you started with 1.073. That's both a bit intense for yeast (which is going to stress them out, hence the reason you make a starter for big beers in the first place) and going to lead to vociferous fermentation.

DME has a PPG (points per pound per gallon) of 44, you used 200g (or 0.44 pounds), in one liter (or about 1/4 gallon):


If you measured your OG and it was 1.040, then I'm a moron and there's something else awry. The 2L starter kit I have says to use 1/2 pound of DME, though, so for a 1L kit that would be about 1/4 pound (and be consistent with the math above):



Edit: for the sake of conversion, .25 lbs = 113 grams, if that's how you're measuring it out.

You used twice as much dme as you want to if 200g in 1L was what you did.

Strangelove said:

Howdy,

I made 2 starters this week. A friend and I are going to split a 10 gallon Tripel. Mr Malty called for a 1L/1 vial starter for 5 gallons. As an experiment I made 1 starter of WPL530 and one of WPL550. Both were made with 200g of light DME and a pinch of yeast nutrient in a 2L erlenmyer flask with a stirrer and a foil cap. Both spewed thick tan yeast all over the outside of the flask and table in about 24 hours. This seems to happen to about 80% of the starters I make.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I just need a 5L flask?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

You made 2 starters using 2 separate 2L flasks? And each flask was filled with 2L of wort? I'm confused.

If you are in fact filling a 2L flask almost completely full then that's why you got some blow off. Not enough head space for the foam.

I use 2 cups dme for a 2000 ml starter. please let me know if this is not the correct amount. My starters multiply yeast like crazy. They take usually 3 days to fully ferment using a stir plate. I never get boil overs unless for some reason my stir bar gets tossed off. If my stri bar runs from the start of the fermintation till the end i won't get a boil over. BUt if it stops and I try to restart it in the middle of the fermentation it will boil over evey time. I use a 5000 ml flask

badbrew said:

You used twice as much dme as you want to if 200g in 1L was what you did.

Click to expand...

That simple? Cool, thanks.

Seven said:

You made 2 starters using 2 separate 2L flasks? And each flask was filled with 2L of wort? I'm confused.

If you are in fact filling a 2L flask almost completely full then that's why you got some blow off. Not enough head space for the foam.

Click to expand...

I made 2 1-liter starters each in the 2 Liter flask. One I made on Sunday and put into the fridge on Wednesday. The second I made on Wednesday for Sunday pitching.

I know that technically that you only need to have the stir bar going fast enough to create a dimple in the surface of the liquid. This keeps the yeast in suspension and keeps the liquid 'turning over' so that it picks up oxygen. Is this optimal though? Do the people driving their starters until the vortex reaches the bottom experience blow offs? Does this drive off the CO2 and keep the yeast from clumping?

Brew-ta-sauraus said:

I use 2 cups dme for a 2000 ml starter. please let me know if this is not the correct amount. My starters multiply yeast like crazy. They take usually 3 days to fully ferment using a stir plate. I never get boil overs unless for some reason my stir bar gets tossed off. If my stri bar runs from the start of the fermintation till the end i won't get a boil over. BUt if it stops and I try to restart it in the middle of the fermentation it will boil over evey time. I use a 5000 ml flask

Click to expand...

Three days is too long for a starter...this is like the 3rd or 4th time i've posted this video...



and how do you have boil overs during fermentation...?

Boilover eruption you know what I'm talking about! Same thing just with out the heat.

Brew-ta-sauraus said:

Boilover eruption you know what I'm talking about! Same thing just with out the heat.

Click to expand...

...words have meanings...lol

Good info on the video thanks!

From all I have read (and done) a good ratio for starters is 10g of DME to 100ml of water hence a 1L (1000ml) starter would use 100g of DME.

I have been using this for my starters and always have great results. I did have one 1.5L starter "burst" out from under the foil using a 2L flask bust most of the time I get about 2-3 inches of foam or so.

200g of DME in a 1L starter is a pretty strong mix, maybe that is the problem?

dbreienrk1 said:

Three days is too long for a starter...this is like the 3rd or 4th time i've posted this video...

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Interesting. There are MANY threads on HBT stating it's okay to let it go for days +.

Strangelove said:

Interesting. There are MANY threads on HBT stating it's okay to let it go for days +.

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Not a knock against you, but most of these statements are made by people who don't have degrees in microbiology. And the majority of people just regurgitate things that other people have said. I prefer to go to the source and do research for myself...

my $0.02

I'm with you. I typically make a starter on Saturday for Sunday use, mostly because of time constraints. I never have trouble with lag time or active fermentation that way. I generally use, and need, a blow-off tube.

I generally use 2 oz (28 1/3 grams) per 500 ml. That is what I seemed to find instructed when I first tried. It has worked well so far. So for 2 L, 113 1/3 grams

dbreienrk1 said:

Not a knock against you, but most of these statements are made by people who don't have degrees in microbiology. And the majority of people just regurgitate things that other people have said. I prefer to go to the source and do research for myself...

my $0.02

Click to expand...

I love that my local LHBS owner is a micro-biologist, plus it has always been a hobby of mine, as well as chemistry due to being a huge nerd, so it made the transition into brewing quite nice, with a nice place to go ask someone who has experience and expertise in a field that I can communicate in. Always look at the source.

Edit: Could a mod maybe combine my comments, and set the reason as idiot or something of the like?

dbhokie said:

I generally use 2 oz (28 1/3 grams) per 500 ml. That is what I seemed to find instructed when I first tried. It has worked well so far. So for 2 L, 113 1/3 grams

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This will work but gives a gravity of 1.021 by TastyBrew's calculator. Most suggest a 1.040 starter. Hence the 10 to 1 ratio.

1/2 cup of DME to 2 cups water will give you 1.040. Scale it as needed.

kh54s10 said:

This will work but gives a gravity of 1.021 by TastyBrew's calculator. Most suggest a 1.040 starter. Hence the 10 to 1 ratio.

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I got 1.041 yesterday, with just a bit of boiloff. I almost always get 1.04 (to be fair always so far for me with starters is about a dozen total).

The calculators I have used, as well as the equations I have been pulling up confirm it, although I may be doing something wrong.

assuming .046 ppg
http://brew.stderr.net/starter_wort_calc.html This particular calculator illustrates 3.7 oz to every L or 1.85 to every 500 ml, I use a tad more and generally end up a bit above 1.04 by a tad.

EDIT: Tastybrew calc comes out with 1.043

It uses gallons, a 1000 ml starter would be .2641 gallons

at 2 oz per 500 ml, you would use 4 oz or .25 pounds, if you enter those into tasty brew calc, you will see you come out with 1.043

also depends on the type of yeast. Never have issues with wlp001 but crazy eruptions with wlp400. Belgian yeast are extra active I guess. English ones are pretty calm also.