When to start my starter?

I'm brewing a dunkelweizen on Saturday and I'd like to do my first starter for it. When should I start the starter so that it's ready to pitch?

Also what is the best process to use? Mr. Malty is giving me a starter size that is much bigger than any vessel I have. I'm planning on using a growler, but should I just go ahead and fill it a little above halfway (about 1.25-1.5L)?

I will not be using a stirplate, so do I just give it a "swish" or shake everyday? And then is it best to decant the beer before pitching, or is that considered a minute amount of oxidized beer to put in the fermenter?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first starter.

I generally will do my starters 2 - 3 days before brewday. You can do them sooner and just pop them in the fridge when they finish, if needed.

What size is Mr Malty recommending and what is your OG?

I will usually decant my beer but usually 1.5 liters of oxidized beer isn't going to ruin a batch.

OG is 1.052.
With 1 Smack Pack, the calculator is telling me a 4.59L starter for the month-old yeast.

NOTE: This is based on using "Hybrid" since it's a dunkelweizen. If I put it in as an ale it comes out to 2.36L.

4.59 L? That's over a gallon! I guess it doesn't like the odds with that yeast being so old.

bknifefight said:

4.59 L? That's over a gallon! I guess it doesn't like the odds with that yeast being so old.

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Funny thing is I just got it from AHS. It's the oldest yeast I've gotten from them, but I didn't think it was too bad. I guess the calculator feels differently.

I did my first starter last weekend. I made it Thursday for a Saturday night brew. Swirled several times a day. Put it in the fridge Saturday about 12 hours before I was going to pitch. Pulled it out and decanted about 3 hours before pitching. Most active fermentation I've ever had in my 20 brews.

Weezknight said:

OG is 1.052.
With 1 Smack Pack, the calculator is telling me a 4.59L starter for the month-old yeast.

NOTE: This is based on using "Hybrid" since it's a dunkelweizen. If I put it in as an ale it comes out to 2.36L.

Click to expand...

Not sure why you would classify it as a hybrid, it's an ale it's just a dark bavarian wheat beer. Utilize the ale figures.

hukdizzle said:

Not sure why you would classify it as a hybrid, it's an ale it's just a dark bavarian wheat beer. Utilize the ale figures.

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I could have sworn somewhere awhile back I had read, in one of the countless books I've been reading, that the Dunkelweizen was a hybrid style. I'll gladly go with the ale numbers, since it's a lot smaller. The problem is still how to get my count up in a growler that won't fit more than 1.75L.

bknifefight said:

I generally will do my starters 2 - 3 days before brewday. You can do them sooner and just pop them in the fridge when they finish, if needed.

What size is Mr Malty recommending and what is your OG?

I will usually decant my beer but usually 1.5 liters of oxidized beer isn't going to ruin a batch.

Click to expand...

That kind of answers my question.

How long can it sit in the fridge?

I assume that you tighten the lid at that point?

Here is what Wyeast says,

"Pitching a Wyeast Activator pack gives the following results within 12 to 18 hours:

* 1 liter starter = about 150 billion cells
* 2 liter starter = about 200 billion cells
* 1 liter starter, then pitched into 4 liter starter = 400 billion cells
"

Taking into account the viability of the yeast at 77% being a month old from packaging you will get 154 billion cells in a 2 liter starter. Now here is the deal with weizens, under pitching slightly on weizen's is actually sometimes deliberately done to pronounce the yeast esters that is characteristic of bavarian weizen yeast so under pitching this style of beer really isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. My figures of course are very elementary and yeast propagation can only be an exact science if your process variables are the same every time.

In my personal opinion, build the biggest starter you can in your growler and let it ferment out, it will roughly put you in the ballpark of 140-150 billion cells. At that point you'll only be roughly under pitching by 80% of the recommended figure.

Remember that making ANY starter in general is better than pitching the smack pack directly. So even if you can't hit the figure exactly due to the limitations of your equipment, making a starter in general is going to produce better beer and in your situation under pitching slightly may be favorable to pitching the recommended amount if you're looking for the yeast esters.

The yeast can sit in the fridge for weeks.