Brand New - Complete Newbie Questions - Pt. 1 - Budget

There's a host of different starter kits to take a look from.

So I went to Scotzin Bros. in Lemoyne yesterday.

I was originally looking to get this to start with:
* http://www.midwestsupplies.com/simply-beer-brewing-starter-kit (49.99$) (+S&H)

Scotzin didn't have that personally (obviously), but they had these different starting kits:
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-equipment-kit (60.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-deluxe-equipment-kit-5-gallon-pet-carboy (90.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-deluxe-equipment-kit (106.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-beast-equipment-kit-pet-carboy (122.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-beast-equipment-kit (132.95$)

Which seems like the best value (what I'm getting vs. overall cost), and what seems like the best for a starter looking to do maybe 1-3 (maybe 5) extract batches before moving on to all-grain?


Thanks all!

NewPA_Brewer said:

So I went to Scotzin Bros. in Lemoyne yesterday.

I was originally looking to get this to start with:
* http://www.midwestsupplies.com/simply-beer-brewing-starter-kit (49.99$) (+S&H)

Scotzin didn't have that personally (obviously), but they had these different starting kits:
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-equipment-kit (60.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-deluxe-equipment-kit-5-gallon-pet-carboy (90.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-best-deluxe-equipment-kit (106.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-beast-equipment-kit-pet-carboy (122.95$)
* https://www.scotzinbros.com/brewers-beast-equipment-kit (132.95$)

Which seems like the best value (what I'm getting vs. overall cost), and what seems like the best for a starter looking to do maybe 1-3 (maybe 5) extract batches before moving on to all-grain?


Thanks all!

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I will throw my 2 cents in then bow out: do not--DO NOT--buy stuff you will not need or want when you improve your brewing. If it turns out you don't like doing this, sell off what you bought and call it good. If you buy crappy equipment, nobody will want it. If you buy good, they will.

The kit with the PET carboy is better--though it doesn't actually list that, just says it's a PET carboy in the title. I know a lot of people use buckets to brew beer, but if there's ANY chance you're going to move ahead with this over time, buy quality from the start.

If I were starting over I'd buy the Fermonster fermenters from MoreBeer. I have three BMBs but the Fermonsters are cheaper, better lid, *and* like the BMB you can reach inside them. They also allow for a spigot to be added--or you can for $3 more, get one with a spigot. There's not a chance in Hades I'd go back to siphoning after having used spigots on my fermenters.

I know money is dear, but there's no worse spending of money than buying poor-quality items you'll end up either having or wanting to replace.

The PET carboy is, IMO, hands down better than a bucket; you can see what's going on in there! But a wide-mouth PET fermenter is, again IMO, hands down better than a PET carboy.

That's my 2 cents, I'm finished. Either way, good luck, I wish you the best in this endeavor, and I'm looking forward to watching your progress.

My $.02, do you already have a spaghetti pot big enough to do extract? Have you saved up pop-top bottles? You can get Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada bottles fairly cheap and they come with free beer in them. If you have those go Midwest supplies kit. I've been using buckets for years with no issues eventually you'll go all grain and need a bigger pot so I agree with the last post - DONT buy a smaller pot to do a few batches of extract BUT if you already have it use it. My opinion fermentation will affect your beer more than method so go ahead and cheap out now and get fermentation licked there's nothing in that Midwest kit you won't use. Even if you don't use the bucket for fermentation drill a hole in it and you'll have a spare bottling bucket or get a regular un-grommeted lid and store grain in it.

Why a big spoon and a mash paddle? Ditch one or the other.

With more info, replies can be focused. This thread began with AG pricing deals in the hundreds and now it's extract in the 60's. What's your price limits? Do you still aim for AG? You can go very cheap to begin if you're concerned with sticking with the hobby, no need for a kit, especially if extract. Put a price tag around this- then you can focus on best bang for your buck.

As far as an iodine test kit goes, a bottle of cheap iodine for pennies and a white plate is all you need unless I'm mistaken (that's what I used but don't use it very often now).
Unless you're brewing pretty often I'd day a grain mill can also wait as you can just buy crushed grain and save the money and space until you know it's something you want to invest more time and money into?

Kampenken said:

With more info, replies can be focused. This thread began with AG pricing deals in the hundreds and now it's extract in the 60's. What's your price limits? Do you still aim for AG? You can go very cheap to begin if you're concerned with sticking with the hobby, no need for a kit, especially if extract. Put a price tag around this- then you can focus on best bang for your buck.

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The reason it went from AG to extract talk, was all the recommendations I got to just start slow (slower than I initially intended anyway which was straight into AG) and do 1-3 (or 5) extract batches and then move on to AG.

The ultimate goal is still AG, no doubt. Budget is somewhat of an issue (kids/wife, etc.), but not a super one, and I'm planning on doing AG piece-meal while doing the extract batches.

Hope this clarifies where I'm at now on the process.

Just like baking, fly tying, any other hobby to get really good at it start small and basic and learn.

Extract on the stove top. Then go extract with steeping grains, then go all grain if you decide you want to progress. Lots of people jump in with both feet then decide home brewing is really not for them after they've spent way too much money. Look in the used gear section of these forums. Start small, learn the process, if you like the hobby then progress.

I will say IF you get to the point of all grain and building a stand alone setup go as big as you'll ever think you will want. And consider carefully your heat source. I spent an arm and a leg and a ton of sweat equity building a propane Brutus 10 clone. Only to find out that 10 gallon batches weren't really big enough and that I really wanted an electric brewery.

Now after 2 yrs and 4 arms and 3 legs I'm about to bring my 1bbl electric system online. I hugely regret not considering and researching more before building my first all grain system.

NewPA_Brewer said:

The reason it went from AG to extract talk, was all the recommendations I got to just start slow (slower than I initially intended anyway which was straight into AG) and do 1-3 (or 5) extract batches and then move on to AG.

The ultimate goal is still AG, no doubt. Budget is somewhat of an issue (kids/wife, etc.), but not a super one, and I'm planning on doing AG piece-meal while doing the extract batches.

Hope this clarifies where I'm at now on the process.

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Yes, that helps. Choose some extract kits of clones you like or styles you like, even if not in season, though I prefer the porters and stouts now, and the IPAs, wheats, blondes later when its warm again. Extract kits are easy, even with steeping grains (its like a mini AG, and can help add more character to your beers). Being in PA you will have no issue with ferm temps being too high, if you have a basement that can hold 60's you're good to go. As a new brewer read up on Brulosophy's site, he has a wealth of information, all in the name of debunking the tried and true axioms from us homebrewers! Great insight to brewing and while not entirely scientific, it does show how us homebrewer's beliefs can easily be questioned.

As for supplies, keep it simple, and these likely will still be used if you go AG. A large pot of at least 4gal, no need to get an expensive one, later can help for heating sparge water, no need for an 8-10gal one now that you might want for full boils later (for 5-6g batches). Get a good, quick read thermometer (try Thermoworks, they have good ones for <$20 and you will always find use). Ale pail or a carboy, with bung and airlock- I upgraded to a SS conical, but that's expensive bling- you can always upgrade to a plastic conical for less, or add a port to a pail -way worth it to avoid siphoning the beer, you will need some way to transfer. Save your bottles (not twist off either!). Get bottling wand, capper, small scale for tenths of an ounce (and in grams), star san and a cleaner- all these supplies get the smallest until you further commit to the hobby. That's essentially all you need to start out. A hydrometer is not needed to start, especially before you go AG, though its only ~$10, and is nice for finishing gravity. That will get you started for 1/2 boil, extract with or w/o steeping grains. Enjoy the hobby!

Hydrometers: Buy two, trust me you'll be glad you did.

Interesting, the previous post just said 'don't buy hydrometers' and your post says 'buy two'. I'm starting to see what some have said that when you start asking for lists, everyone will give you a completely different list.

Any recommendations on these:

(All Grain Kits from NB):

229.99$: http://www.northernbrewer.com/fermenters-favorites-essential-all-grain-brewing-starter-kit-7-gallon (7Gallon)
249.99$: http://www.northernbrewer.com/fermenters-favorites-essential-all-grain-brewing-starter-kit-10-gallon (10Gallon)

If the goal is still to save money I wouldn't recommend those a ten gallon pot, bag, and burner will get you 5 gallon BIAB batches if you want to upgrade to that later you can although I doubt you'll want to. The pot and burner you'll need anyway so not really a waste. Maybe get your method settled (batch sparge, fly sparge, BIAB) then think heat source (burner or electric) then think actual equipment

I'm definitely not doing BIAB, everything I've read, and the people I've talked to (on here, and Scotzin Bros) makes it sound like a nightmare/super huge headache to do BIAB.

NewPA_Brewer said:

I'm definitely not doing BIAB, everything I've read, and the people I've talked to (on here, and Scotzin Bros) makes it sound like a nightmare/super huge headache to do BIAB.

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All methods have some sort of "headache". I just tried BIAB after batch sparging for 4 years and it was an easier process IMO. Not sure what the headache would be unless it's more of a personal preference. You will experience issues in any process if preventative measures are not taken, such as spills, leaky mash tuns, trub collection, etc. In the end, watch a video on both methods and determine what makes makes you comfortable and makes the most sense with your brewing space and equipment. Delicious, clean, clear beer can be made from any process as long as your process is sound.

NewPA_Brewer said:

I'm definitely not doing BIAB, everything I've read, and the people I've talked to (on here, and Scotzin Bros) makes it sound like a nightmare/super huge headache to do BIAB.

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Actually, it is much simpler and very easy. Despite having a mash tun, almost 95% of my brews the past two years have been BIAB. It is much faster, cleaner, simpler and requires less washing up afterwards.

JMO

Oginme said:

Actually, it is much simpler and very easy. Despite having a mash tun, almost 95% of my brews the past two years have been BIAB. It is much faster, cleaner, simpler and requires less washing up afterwards.

JMO

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This. Way easier doing BIAB in my kitchen than a 10 gallon batch outside. Difference is 3 gal vs 10 gal yield. But that means more brew days.:rockin:

NewPA_Brewer said:

I'm definitely not doing BIAB, everything I've read, and the people I've talked to (on here, and Scotzin Bros) makes it sound like a nightmare/super huge headache to do BIAB.

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Get started on your extracts (and I highly recommend w/steeping grains, or at least go for a beer you like). Get a few in, from brew day to drinking days, (you'll have some weeks in between so you might be brewing a 2nd batch before you taste your first!). Then the Spring will come around and you can maybe decide where you want to go, both in investment and time. Oh and let's not forget, AG will be at least twice as long on brew days than extract. So consider that too. Get those brews done, keep it simple with the supplies, and then consider what time and money allows. If you have both, I highly recommend the Grainfather, for $700 (eBay) you will be done and avoid the nightmares and super huge headaches! But that's just my opinion! Cheers, enjoy, and start brewing! Please let us know here how it goes, always interested in hearing new brewer's stories.

Where in PA are you? I'm in the SE.

I have a 3 vessel and do BIAB as well. Start with BIAB. It's much easier and produces the same quality beer. If I had started out on BIAB, I probably would have never bothered with the 3 vessel. Since it only requires one vessel and a bag, you haven't bought anything you won't need if you eventually decide to do a 3 vessel setup. The bag can be re-purposed for hops. If you start with 3 vessel you have potentially wasted a bunch of cash on a mashing/lautering system that is a big pain in the ass and a waste of money. IMO, a lot of the all-grain kits sold buy online retailers SUCK. Don't invest in one until you have some experience that will give you a better idea of what you want in a system.

Head over to http://www.brewinabag.com and buy a bag. They are much better than the cheap bags on amazon. You will also want a pair of these for brewing, but they are especially helpful with BIAB:

https://amzn.com/B00JEPE17K

Next I would peruse craigslist for kettles, burners, and wort chillers.

As for fermenting, I'm a big fan of buckets. They served me well and when you are done with them as fermenters you have a handy dandy bucket. I can always use more buckets for storage, cleaning, etc.

Honestly you can just get a stock pot, and with some determination and a couple tools you can make it into a brew kettle. With this you can save some big $$.

mvasek said:

Honestly you can just get a stock pot, and with some determination and a couple tools you can make it into a brew kettle. With this you can save some big $$.

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This is what me and my buddy ended up doing and saved a fair amount of money.

Just make sure you get a good bit for drilling stainless steel, it's not the easiest to get through. Along with a weldless thermometer and valve.