VSS 9097 Old Ale

I wanted to take advantage of the Wyeast High Gravity VSS (PC 9097) release, so I put on my thinking cap and cobbled together a recipe for an Old Ale.

Here are the specs for the Wyeast 9097:

Wyeast 9097-PC Old Ale Blend
Beer Styles: English Barleywine, English Strong Ale, Old Ale
Profile: To bring you a bit of English brewing heritage we developed the “Old Ale” blend, including an attenuative ale strain and a Brettanomyces strain, which will ferment well in dark worts and produce beers with nice fruitiness. Complex estery characters will emerge with age. Pie cherry and sourness will evolve from the Brettanomyces along with distinct horsey characteristics.

Alc. Tolerance 12%
Flocculation medium
Attenuation 75-80%
Temperature Range 68-75°F (20-24°C)

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BeerXML file attached.

13 lbs Maris Otter
6 oz Dark Crystal
3 oz Black Patent
12 oz Blackstrap Molasses
2 lbs light DME*
1.8 oz Challenger (60 minutes)

OG: 1.085
FG: 1.017
IBU: 55

Mash at 152° for 60 minutes.

*I'm using my 5 gallon MLT so I have to make up some gravity points with extract, plus I have some hanging around that needs to be used up while it's still fresh; even with a stiff mash at 1qt/lb, I'm maxing out my MLT.

View attachment Old Ale-1.xml

Wish I could help, but I have no idea what to do with your XML file, so I can't see your recipe. Well, I can see it; I just can't make what's in it make sense.

Cheers!

Bob

Oops, OP edited.

Jason

Okay, that's better. (Tangentially, if someone wants to clue me in on BeerXML I'm all ears.)

The recipe looks fine! Your finished gravity will depend on your yeast management and mash profile; don't be surprised if you end up around 1020. Build a good starter, that's for sure. You need around 300 billion cells to pitch. If you build a starter until you get about 200ml of pure slurry, that'll get you the appropriate pitch. And don't forget to aerate excessively well.

Cheers!

Bob

I too am planning to make an Old Ale while that strain is availible. Actually, looking at your recipe mine looks very similar but with more crystal and no black patent...let us know how it turns out.

Tonedef131 said:

I too am planning to make an Old Ale while that strain is availible. Actually, looking at your recipe mine looks very similar but with more crystal and no black patent...let us know how it turns out.

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Sure will! I just placed an order for my yeast last evening, so I'll be brewing this next weekend.

I got some too...I'm looking forward to getting a range of experiences out of this as the beer ages and the brett really starts kicking in. I noticed with the last release they dropped the VSS and now go with the PC "private collection" moniker.

NQ3X said:

Okay, that's better. (Tangentially, if someone wants to clue me in on BeerXML I'm all ears.)

The recipe looks fine! Your finished gravity will depend on your yeast management and mash profile; don't be surprised if you end up around 1020. Build a good starter, that's for sure. You need around 300 billion cells to pitch. If you build a starter until you get about 200ml of pure slurry, that'll get you the appropriate pitch. And don't forget to aerate excessively well.

Cheers!

Bob

Click to expand...

I'd actually expect it to finish under 1.010 with the Brett and all

I smell a swap cookin'!



I'm already thinking about one potential adjustment to my recipe, as I have some Galena whole hops coming.

PseudoChef said:

I'd actually expect it to finish under 1.010 with the Brett and all

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Aye! This blend holds some interesting prospects.

PseudoChef said:

I'd actually expect it to finish under 1.010 with the Brett and all

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Well, given that Wyeast lists its attenuation as 75-80%, and the OG is 1085, the lowest FG expected is 1017.

Although Brett is a voracious beastie...I guess Jason will let us know in a year or so.

Bob

NQ3X said:

Although Brett is a voracious beastie...I guess Jason will let us know in a year or so.
\

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Yes indeed! I love these long-term aging projects.

Just placed an order for this yeast myself.
I'm making a similar recipe with Special B for the dark crystal and chocolate for the black patent.

As soon as i read the description I was intrigued. And i realized I had not made an Old Ale yet so i had to do it. I'll give this one plenty of time in the secondary to develop.

Craig

I think we should track progress on this project; I'll start a thread here shortly once I formulate my thoughts.

Jason

I think I will need to pick up a pack of this as well.

PseudoChef said:

I think I will need to pick up a pack of this as well.

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The more the merrier!

This could be quite fun.

flyangler, have you considered using treacle in place of the molasses? i know it's a bit more expensive but with a big beer and such a time investment, you might as well splurge to do it right!

KingBrianI said:

flyangler, have you considered using treacle in place of the molasses? i know it's a bit more expensive but with a big beer and such a time investment, you might as well splurge to do it right!

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I did entertain the thought; but, to my palate, I don't detect enough of a flavor difference between blackstrap and treacle.

Maybe I'll give it another go.

I actually don't think there is any difference beyond the name between blackstrap and treacle, blackstrap being the american name for it, treacle being the old school and english name. I'm pretty sure it's the same product.

Version 2.0- I'm rethinking all my recipes seeing the discrepancy between creating them in Beer Alchemy and BTP 1.5.2.

[size=+2]Wyeast 9097 Old Ale[/size]
[size=+1]19-A Old Ale[/size]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 2/4/09



Size: 5.0 gal
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 289.48 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.086 (1.060 - 1.090)
|=====================#==========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.022 (1.015 - 1.022)
|======================#=========|
Color: 21.57 (10.0 - 22.0)
|=======================#========|
Alcohol: 8.56% (6.0% - 9.0%)
|=====================#==========|
Bitterness: 48.7 (30.0 - 60.0)
|=================#==============|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
10.5 lb Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
8 oz Dark Crystal Malt I
3.75 oz British Black Patent
12 oz Treacle
2 lb Dry Light Extract
1.0 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.2[/size]

I'd think about adding both some flavor and a small amount of aroma hops. Anything British would be fine -- Goldings, Fuggles, or US equivalents like Willamette. .5 to 1 oz at 20 minutes and at flameout.

Otherwise, it looks tasty to me.

mkling said:

I'd think about adding both some flavor and a small amount of aroma hops. Anything British would be fine -- Goldings, Fuggles, or US equivalents like Willamette. .5 to 1 oz at 20 minutes and at flameout.

Otherwise, it looks tasty to me.

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I think the delicate flavor and aroma would just be wasted in a beer as big and rich as this; even more so when the Brett character emerges.

+1. I don't think there's much room for flavor/aroma hops in this style, especially with this yeast.

Bob

NQ3X said:

+1. I don't think there's much room for flavor/aroma hops in this style, especially with this yeast.

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Although, the thought did cross my mind to use Fuggles in flavor and aroma additions. The earthiness might really work well and not be overshadowed by the Brett. My precious EKG would be obliterated!

Jason

Finally getting around to getting this one brewed up! Yeast is on the stirplate now.

flyangler18 said:

Finally getting around to getting this one brewed up! Yeast is on the stirplate now.

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Same here, I will be brewing mine on thursday.

My olde ale went in the fermenter Saturday. Ended up with a 1.084 OG using about 220g of black strap molasses. I think this will be an interesting beer after some age I believe it will get a little oak in the secondary.

Craig

Good on yer! Hope it turns out as expected.

My next brew is an old ale. I worry about the brett in this yeast as I don't want to contaminate all my plastic and brew space with a bacterium that I cannot get rid of.

I was really excited to see this yeast on the market until I saw the dread word "brett".

Am I waaay to worried/paranoid? Should I just go ahead with Wyeast 1028 or another english yeast?

Thanks!

Cugel said:

My next brew is an old ale. I worry about the brett in this yeast as I don't want to contaminate all my plastic and brew space with a bacterium that I cannot get rid of.

I was really excited to see this yeast on the market until I saw the dread word "brett".

Am I waaay to worried/paranoid? Should I just go ahead with Wyeast 1028 or another english yeast?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Brett isn't bacteria - it's yeast.

It all depends on what you are after. If you have previously had Brett beers and enjoy them, then I would go ahead with it. I am inclined to say that yes, you are being overly paranoid. I haven't infected any of my post-Brett batches, using the same equipment. If you can clean and sanitize, you can brewing synchronously with Brettanomyces and Saccharomyces.

I've found this recipe from Northernbrewer.com

09 Jan - VSS Old Ale - XX (double X) ale - AG

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

19-A Strong Ale, Old Ale

Min OG: 1.060 Max OG: 1.108
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 80
Min Clr: 10 Max Clr: 26 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.00
Anticipated OG: 1.074 Plato: 17.90
Anticipated SRM: 56.8
Anticipated IBU: 24.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.063 SG 15.36 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
65.4 8.50 lbs. Maris Otter Great Britain 1.038 3
7.7 1.00 lbs. Maltodextrin Generic 1.030 0
7.7 1.00 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
7.7 1.00 lbs. Sugar - Corn Generic 1.046 0
7.7 1.00 lbs. Treacle Generic 1.036 600
3.8 0.50 lbs. Black Patent Malt Great Britain 1.027 525

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 6.00 24.0 60 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 9097PC Old Ale Blend


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Single Infusion Mash

Total Grain Lbs: 10.00
Total Water Qts: 12.50 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.13 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 70.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Single Infusion 1 60 155 155 Infuse 168 12.50 1.25


Total Water Qts: 12.50 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.13 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.93 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

I just pitched this badboy into some 1.080 wort, it's sittin at 68 and I can't wait to drink it like a year from now.

Holy cow I went disc golfing and hit the gym and came home to this thing going nuts. I only pitched this like 7 hours ago and it's already about to blow-off. By far the fastest start I have ever had, I had a nice big pitch of yeast and started using pure O2 in my big beers but I still didn't expect that quick of a start.

Finally getting this brewed today!

[size=+2]Wyeast 9097 Old Ale[/size]
[size=+1]19-A Old Ale[/size]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 2/4/09



Size: 5.0 gal
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 292.52 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.087 (1.060 - 1.090)
|======================#=========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.022 (1.015 - 1.022)
|=======================#========|
Color: 21.61 (10.0 - 22.0)
|=======================#========|
Alcohol: 8.65% (6.0% - 9.0%)
|======================#=========|
Bitterness: 57.9 (30.0 - 60.0)
|======================#=========|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
13.75 lb Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
8.0 oz British Dark Crystal
3.0 oz British Black Patent
12 oz Molasses
1 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.75 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.2[/size]

Pulled a sample of this over the weekend to give it a quick taste. Brett character is just beginning to emerge ever so slightly with slight corky aromas. There's an assertive full-bodied richness to the beer - dark fruit notes abound as well. I'll be moving this to secondary in a week or so for a very long extended aging.

When I rack, I think I'll plunk some oak chips into the harvested slurry to inoculate with Brett. Trying to think about the best way to get some future use out of this yeast.

Neglected to a gravity reading at this point, but I'll do one at transfer.

Mine dropped from 1.080 down to 1.021, I racked it into a secondary about a month ago and it has a nice pellicle forming presently. It was very malty when I tasted it and I probably could have entered it as a barleywine now...but I won't be touching this for at least another 10 months.

flyangler18 said:

Pulled a sample of this over the weekend to give it a quick taste. Brett character is just beginning to emerge ever so slightly with slight corky aromas. There's an assertive full-bodied richness to the beer - dark fruit notes abound as well. I'll be moving this to secondary in a week or so for a very long extended aging.

When I rack, I think I'll plunk some oak chips into the harvested slurry to inoculate with Brett. Trying to think about the best way to get some future use out of this yeast.

Neglected to a gravity reading at this point, but I'll do one at transfer.

Click to expand...

Could I please have your recipe? I have this same yeast that I need to use!!

Certainly, it's right here in this thread - post #34.

Many Thanks!!

Neglected to a gravity reading at this point, but I'll do one at transfer.

Click to expand...

Had some time over lunch to rack this one over; hydro is reading 1.020 @ 60° for a perfect 75% attenuation - although I expect the brett to continue taking this down over the next year.