Chlorophenols - my archenemy, my nemesis, my moby dick, my caddy shack gopher.......

-TH- said:

Other - Tried RDWHAHB. It didn't work.

Click to expand...

Chemical off-flavors are frequently encountered in beer and can be caused by numerous factors. The most obvious cause comes from traces of cleaning or sanitizing chemicals left on equipment surfaces after use. Chemicals containing chlorine and iodine are well known contributors of chemical off-flavors if the compounds remain on the equipment. Of the two, chlorine is the worst because it can combine with malt phenols to form a class of compounds called chlorophenols, which have a pronounced medicinal aroma. Iodine sanitizers usually cause no problems if used at their recommended concentration.

Some brewers encounter problems with chlorine even without using chlorinated sanitizers. These problems are often traced to chlorinated tap water. If brewers use chlorinated tap water for rinsing brewing equipment, then chlorophenol off-flavors may arise. One well known craft brewer had a problem with chlorophenols in his fruit beer that was eventually traced to the fruit. The fruit source had been rinsed at the farm with chlorinated water and this chlorine was being introduced to the beer at the time of fruit addition. This problem took some good detective work to solve.

Medicinal aromas can also come from wild yeast contamination. In fact the classic indicator of wild yeast contamination in beer is a distinct phenolic aroma. This aroma is often likened to cloves or the smell of standard bandages.

Click to expand...

Saccharomyces said:

Bottled water isn't guaranteed to be free of chlorine. I treat EVERYTHING with Campden that doesn't go through a chloramine removing filter. Even the tap water I use to mix my Star San.

I recently posted about my recent woes with chlorine... I was getting chlorine from my PVC garden hose I used to clean my equipment. I switched to using an RV hose and/or clean the equipment in the kitchen sink now. Problem solved.

Click to expand...

PHENOLIC

CHARACTERISTICS: A hospital-medicine chest flavor and aroma, best detected by its aroma components; caused by phenols. Some phenolic tastes are desired depending on the style. Other descriptions include Band-Aid-like, plasticlike, smoky, clovelike.

HIGH LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Yeast strain; chlorophenols in the water; improper rinse of chlorine sanitizers; oversparging; sparging above pH 6.0; sparging above 170 degrees; wild yeast contamination.

LOW LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Charcoal filtering of tap water; good healthy yeast strain; proper sparging while monitoring temperature and pH, good rinse of sanitizers or use of non-chlorine sanitizers.

EXAMPLES: Wheat beers have a high amount of the phenol 4-vinyl guaiacol that gives the characteristic clove taste.

Phenolics are more prominent as an off-aroma, but also are imparted in the flavor of beer. It is described as medicinal, band-aid-like, smokey, clove-like, and plastic-like. Except in certain styles where small amounts are appropriate, phenols are hugely unacceptable. There are many sources of contamination:

* Chlorophenols exist in municipal water supplies and residue from chlorine-based sanitizers. They can affect beer in parts-per-billion (ppb)! Avoidance of both should be given; find a substitute water supply and avoid chlorine-based sanitizers altogether.
* Phenols extracted from malt during the mash and sparge are polyphenols, also called tannins. They interact with proteins to form chill or permanent haze. If oxidized through hot-side aeration, they create oxidized fusel alcohols. Proper sparging, and avoidance of excessive sparging can reduce the phenolic production. Also, sparge water should be low in alkalinity, and not in excess of 167°F. Likewise, extract brewers should avoid boiling grains.
* Phenols are also derived from certain yeast strains that produce aromatic alcohols. Bavarian wheat beers produce acceptable levels of phenols by creating 4-vinyl guaiacol that results in a pleasing clovelike phenolic tone under the correct conditions. Careful selection of yeast can eliminate undesired affects.
* Wild yeast contamination can harbor within plastic-based equipment, such as polyethylene fermenters and plastic hoses. These materials as soft and permeable, hence difficult to clean. Wild yeasts such as S. diatatius produce minor wort phenols that impart medicinal off-flavors. Migration to glass and stainless replacements are the best solution. Also check for defective bottle caps.
* Smokey phenols are a byproduct of smoked malts, such as in Rauchbier, and Scotch ales. Low amounts are appropriate, but excess use of malt can be overbearing.

Click to expand...

Wild yeast contamination can harbor within plastic-based equipment, such as polyethylene fermenters and plastic hoses. These materials as soft and permeable, hence difficult to clean. Wild yeasts such as S. diatatius produce minor wort phenols that impart medicinal off-flavors.

Click to expand...

-TH- said:

Thanks for the info Revvy and others. MajorTom I just read through your post from last week (not sure how I missed it) and will be eager to see how you fare. Sacc, did you have a thread of your own? I couldn't find it searching (I miss the old advanced search).

I'm debating if I should hold off on the AG and do one more extract batch, this time using campden tablets (including wash and sanitize water). I don't recall seeing anyone who has done this and had chlorophenols.

Click to expand...

JumboBlimpJumbo said:

One more suggestion. Take a taste sample every step of the way to make it easier to determine what is wrong. Taste the wort after you steep your grains and before you put your extract in. Taste it before you pitch your yeast, before you transfer to secondary, etc. Just be sure not to contaminate it in the process

Click to expand...

-TH- said:

Thanks for the advice Jumbo.

My hunch is still leaning towards water, thus the "campden in all phases of water" experiment is up next. I'm also thinking about eliminating the steeping grains as a possible cause, but then if I fix the problem I won't be sure which was the culprit. I may have to do two separate batches.

As far as tasting along the way, I have been doing this, but the phenolic flavor is undectable until after a week or two in the bottle. This at first led me to believe that somewhere in the bottling process lies the problem (which it still could - as my bottles are wet with tap-water based sanitizer when I fill them) but someone pointed out to me once that chlorophenols/phenols aren't really detectable until after the beer is somewhat carbonated no matter what.

Click to expand...

snailsongs said:

So I ended up basically doing about 5 things at once, which worked. I seem to have gotten rid of the PHenols in my finished beer, but I couldn;t pinpoint exactly what was causing it, though my suspicions are similar to your's with the water......here's what I did, though.

1. I tossed my old scratched bottling bucket, 1 old scratched smelly fermentor, and all hoses. I ordered a Better Bottle to take it's place (and new hoses, obviously.
2. I started mixing my Star-San with Distilled water, with the added benefit that I can re-use it as long as it stays clean and clear.
3. I used to buy 7 gallons of spring water for brew day, and inevitably I'd be a tiny bit short and end up using tap water from my sink filter which doesn nothing to chloramines, which I definitely have in my tap water.....I thought the small amounts would be ok, but I think this assumption was wrong.
4. Even though I use spring water from the store, I still treat it with Campden tablets at the recommended 1 tab/20 gallon ratio for chloramine removal.
5. I am making sure that my fermenting temps stay well below 70, unless the recipe/yeast calls for it, of course.
6. I prayed to the beer gods, and brewed up three new batches with all these changes in place......

......The first one has been bottled 1 week now and..... SO FAR SO GOOD! it's the best beer I've ever made (wheat porter)! It's really really good, and no trace whatsoever of chlorophenols.

I guess all I can say is keep at it, and kudo's for having enough patience not to get frustrated and shotgun your methodical weeding out of the problem like I did. You will have success and yo umust report back when you do! I am especially interested to hear how the campden works with your tap water.

laters.
B

Click to expand...

I can't quit now, I like the hobby too much and can only imagine how much more great it will be when I make GOOD beer

Click to expand...

Saccharomyces said:

I was right, your water is alkaline... Your water is fine for an AG brew (using 5.2 stabilizer), but for extract I would skip your water and go with 100% RO water; that will give you a less harsh hop bitterness, and will get rid of the pronounced mineral aftertaste I'm getting. For a hoppy beer you can add a tsp. of gypsum to the kettle with the RO water which will help up the sulfates and give you a crisper bitterness, but that is optional... For malty/balanced brews straight RO and extract will yield superior results every time!

I was talking with Chris Colby (BYO editor) a few months back about his method for extract/steeping grains. We were discussing your very problem which is very common -- 99% of brewers will get to the level where you are now with extract/steeping grains and think they have to go to AG to make better beer. Fact is you don't, Chris only does AG batches with a brew buddy. He has been doing extract for 20 years and he makes some GREAT beers. Here's the Colby method:

- Start with 1 gallon of Campden treated RO water and 1 tsp of 5.2 pH stabilizer in the kettle. Stir in 1 lb of dry extract while heating to 165*F. At 165*F remove from heat. Drop in the steeping grain bag, tea bag it to get the grains wet and let it sit 30 minutes. Steeping in a small volume with pH stabilizer and extract keeps the pH around 5.2 which will prevent extracting tannins from the grain husks, which is the most common off flavor in extract beers.
- Drop a strainer over the pot and move the grain bag to the strainer. Run your top-off water slowly over the grains to rinse them until you get to your desired boil volume. Stir in 1/3 of the remaining extract for a partial boil, or 2/3 if doing a full volume boil, and bring to a boil. Add your bittering hops.
- With 15 minutes left in the boil, add a whirlfloc tablet, yeast nutrient, and the rest of your extract (do this off the heat so you don't scorch of course!).
- Stir continuously while chilling until the wort drops below 140*F. Chris uses an immersion chiller in his sink and then moves to an ice bath until he gets down to pitching temp. I already gave you my method, while more hands-on it works too.

Give his method a try and I think you'll be amazed at the results.

Click to expand...