Pilsner fermentation

So I'm making a pilsner - this is my first time using something other than Ale Yeast.
Everything seems to be going great, it has been fermentig at around 50 degrees for almost 3 weeks (today). I am brewing a 5 gallon bath and using WYEAST 2001 Pilsner Urquell Activator yeast - I think at the time I pitched I realized that I should maybe have used more yeast (some people on these forums said that was the case and why it started slowly).
OG was 1.054
It is still bubbling away slowly and I checked with a Hydro yesterday and it is at 1.018.
So I suppose my question is really - when should I consider it ready to bottle?
Should I secondary ferment even if the gravity gets much lower or skip this and go straight to bottling?
If I leave it much longer will the settled yeast leave a bad flavor in the beer?
Note: I tasted it yesterday and it was really nice, perhaps a little sweet still....

I'd appreciate any thoughts/comments.

Thanks!

Transfer it off the yeast cake and into a secondary and lager the hell out of it. Sounds like you are on your way to a damn fine beer..

take another reading in 3 days. if it's still 1.018, transfer to a secondary and lager it at 34F for 2 months

then bottle.

Bulk lagering is generally considered to be better for the beer than bottle-lagering. So, if you have the means to bulk lager it, that would be the ideal thing to do. 6 to 7 weeks is sufficient lagering time for a pilsner of that OG. However, if you don't get the intended attenuation and have more residual dextrins than you want, you could go longer like motobrewer suggests.

If you lager longer than 6 weeks, you may want to add a little more yeast at bottling time or, at minimum, make sure a little yeast sediment from the lagering vessel gets into the bottling bucket.

Ok, so my biggest problem now is that I have no refridgerator to keep it that cold.
I was just going to put it out in my garage (hopefully 45 or below).....

Do what ya gotta do! And then go get a fridge or keezer

Pilsner Urquell typically has a slight butterscotch taste to it. If you want this taste you can rack to your secondary and then lager. If you don't want the butterscotch taste, warm the fermentation vessel up to 64F and hold for a diacetyl rest for 48-72 hours. Then rack to your secondary and lower the temperature. Ideally you want to lower the temp 5 degrees a day to around 35-40F. However if you don't have a fridge or a keezer, bring your primary into the house for 2 days and then rack to a secondary and place the secondary in your cold garage.

Ok, so I'll bring it in the house for a couple of days before cooling again - what purpose does this have? Des it allow for any final fermentation to occur before transferring to the cold?
I'm just interested to know is all.

Also, does anyone know anywhere good to get a cheap fridge (apart from craigslist)?

You'll want to bring that up warmer before you lager. You may get some more fermentation at warmed temps too, but don't think you're done yet, lager yeasts can be friggin slugs. I had an o-fest last year which puttered out around 1.018/1.020 whatever and I brought it up to mid-to-high 60s for D-rest. Well, I checked every two days and it was always slighter lower OG until finally a week later it was 1.012/1.014. Not much of a drop, but still a drop.

I transferred this pilsner to secondary on Friday (72 hrs ago) and have gradually dropped the temperature back down (to around 40 so far) but there are no signs of any fermentation since then, the brew is dark like there are not many yeast cells floating around.
The gravity was at about 1.015 when I transeferred.
Should I be concerned? This secondary lagering is for a bit more activity, no?
What usually appens at this stage and is there anything I can do to assist this now?

neildytham said:

I transferred this pilsner to secondary on Friday (72 hrs ago) and have gradually dropped the temperature back down (to around 40 so far) but there are no signs of any fermentation since then, the brew is dark like there are not many yeast cells floating around.
The gravity was at about 1.015 when I transeferred.
Should I be concerned? This secondary lagering is for a bit more activity, no?
What usually appens at this stage and is there anything I can do to assist this now?

Click to expand...

No- if you're at 1.015, you're about done. What happens now is basically cold conditioning. The beer will clear, smooth out, and mellow as it ages at near freezing (if you can get it that cold). Lager means "to store" in German. I like to lager at 34 degrees for about a week of each 8-10 points of OG. For example, for a 1.064 beer, I'd lager for 8 weeks. I like to get as close to freezing as I can since I think it makes a smoother lager, but you'll be fine at slightly warmer temperatures (like fridge temperatures).

neildytham said:

Also, does anyone know anywhere good to get a cheap fridge (apart from craigslist)?

Click to expand...

you can ask around and find somebody wanting to get rid of one. i got mine (a kenmore upright) for free after i moved it, loaded it up, and got it out of their way.

Right so 3 weeks into the "lagering" - I use the quotations because I'm not sure I am lagering - the temperature is probably too high - I'm guessing thinking its been between 45-50 degrees for the most part as its just outside in my garage and the weather has been surprisingly nice.
What should my plan be? I'd rather rack it now an salvage what I have if that is for the best?
Is it worth keeping it out at such relatively warm temperatures for longer than this or will it just depreciate in enjoyability like this?

45-50 isn't a bad temp to lager at. Cooler of course is better, but I wouldn't go above 50. I would lager it a bit longer then bottle

Alright then.
Finally after more than 5 weeks lagering I am ready to bottle this bad boy....
What steps should I take?
Should I bring it back up to room temp gradually?
Just go straight to bottling?

Also, I've read a few places that I should add some more yeast to aid the priming sugars fermentation, is this a good idea as its been so long dormant, how much, when?

Any input would be great cos I'm kind of stuck right now, not sure where to go....

You don't have to bring the temp up slowly. One thing to consider when bottling lagers is what beer temp to use in the bottle priming sugar calculation.

Using temp in priming sugar calculations is intended to account for how much CO2 is already in solution... i.e., the colder the beer at bottling time, the more CO2 in solution, therefore the less amount of sugar needed. This can get messy with lagers. They ferment around 50°F, but if one does a diacetyl rest, the temp goes up and CO2 is lost... but off-gassing is stopped with lagering and a small amount of more CO2 may be produced during lagering. Then the beer is warmed up again (if only a little) during bottling. So, what temp does one use in the priming sugar calculation?!

So, that may be over-complicating it and more than you need to know, but just remember it takes a few days for CO2 loss to be at an equilibrium with the temperature. So, I use (used... I keg and force-carb now) my best judgement and enter a temperature somewhere in between. If you let the beer warm up and stay at room temp for a few days before bottling, then you can just use room temp for the priming sugar calc.

At 5 weeks lagering, I wouldn't add yeast for bottling. You certainly can add a small amount and that may speed up carbonation by a few days, but I wouldn't bother... you'll just have more sediment in the bottles.

So, just bottle like normal. You can even let the bottles carb at room temp, but a little cooler is safer in regards to the lager yeast producing esters, etc. But even this may not be noticeable with the small amount of carbonation fermentation that takes place.

Bottled it up, and tasted it - really good!
My final question would be - storage?
Should I keep it cold or warmer?
Charlie says:"can be stored at room temperature for up to 7 days then should be kept somewhere cool (cold) before final conditioning before drinking"
So shall I keep it inside for a week, transfer to my cold basement then refrigerate or should I just put it in my cold basement now, then refrigerate after a couple of weeks?

neildytham said:

Bottled it up, and tasted it - really good!
My final question would be - storage?
Should I keep it cold or warmer?
Charlie says:"can be stored at room temperature for up to 7 days then should be kept somewhere cool (cold) before final conditioning before drinking"
So shall I keep it inside for a week, transfer to my cold basement then refrigerate or should I just put it in my cold basement now, then refrigerate after a couple of weeks?

Click to expand...

I don't know if Charlie is referring specifically to lagers or what, but...

I could get into a whole thing here about lager yeasts and carbonation fermentation, but the bottom line is if you used corn sugar for priming, you can carb-ferment them at room temperature and there shouldn't be a noticeable change in flavor from the lager yeasts conducting that small amount of fermentation at a warmer temperature.

Whatever you do, you want them to carb for about 3 weeks at anywhere from 50°F to room temp. The colder they carb, the longer it will take to carb. After that, you can drink them, but whichever bottles you plan to drink, you want to give them a day or two at serving temperature (refrigerator) so they absorb the excess CO2 in the headspace back into solution.