Experiences with Fass-Frisch (report them here)

Split off from this thread

So, Bob mentioned the 5L Fass-Frisch keg and I'll admit I didn't know about these. Has anyone else used them? Gravity-dispensed or using a taper? I think I'll naturally condition in these mini-kegs or use the old BMBF to fill 'em up.

I think I may pick up a couple to take to rugby matches. :rockin:

I do keg- but transporting full cornies can be quite cumbersome, so this might be an excellent alternative with less fuss.

From Bob:

Odd, mused Bob. I have cornies, too, and love them for at home. But they're a pain in the arse to lug to parties. You not only have a heavy keg, you must carry complicated dispensing equipment. With a 5L Fass-Frisch keg, you take a tiny little keg my silver-haired mother-in-law wouldn't strain to carry great distances. Sit it on a bag of ice. That's it!

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And replying to my C02 or gravity-fed question:

Both. Fass-Frisch 5L kegs have a built-in tap. What with the two-piece bung, dispensing Real Ale is a snap!

I have other kegs sans tap. For those I have a CO2 tap which uses those little cartridges. Whippets, I believe they used to be called by the paint-huffing crowd.

You must realize, of course, that you cannot artificially carbonate beer in 5L minikegs. It must either be carbonated before filling or naturally conditioned in the keg. I prefer the latter, of course, given my slathering obsession with session-strength Real Ale, but the BMBF can presumably be used to fill them.

Another caveat is that they are not stainless. They're coated with some sort of sealant on the inside that will eventually degrade. So they're not items of infinite use, like Cornelius kegs.

But handy? Hell, yeah

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I suppose I ought to help on where to get them and their associated equipment.

Homebrew Adventures lists 5L kegs in stock on their website. I think the Party-Star system is a good starter system; that's what I bought right out of the blocks.

Taps, gadgets and goodies can be had from Wecomatic in Germany. Prices are good, but shipping is a b!tch and the dollar is weak.

Listermann has a bunch of cool accessories also, but are out of stock on the kegs themselves. Search on "mini-keg".

You can also press commercial mini-kegs into service. Like buying cases of good beer to enjoy while keeping the bottles, get yourself four 5L minikegs of decent German pils beer and have a party. After your friends drink you dry, clean and store the kegs.

Whatever you do, lay in a supply of the two-piece bungs. They're easy to damage and, given that the 5L keg system is falling out of fashion, who knows when supply will dry up.

Bob

So if I bought one of the 5L Heineken mini kegs at the grocery store and emptied it out, what else would be necessary to be able to refill and use it? I've not purchased one of them before, but I think the ones I've seen have a gravity tap at the bottom.

I'm not quite sure how you'd get one open to clean/refill and then be able to seal it up airtight again.

In the other thread you posted that they have some sort of coating inside that will wear down overtime. How many uses have you averaged out of each mini keg?

It looks like you would siphon into the keg through one of the bung openings after pouring your priming solution into the keg. As Bob mentioned earlier, you'll have to naturally carb in the keg as you can't force carb one of these vessels.

The heineken kegs are proprietary and have a built-in CO2 cartridge and dispensing system, AFAIK they are not reusable. The "normal" 5L kegs have a gravity tap at the bottom and a rubber bung in the top, no other fancy equipment attached.

I think the Heineken kegs have no easy means of filling. But most of the other 5L kegs I've seen - such as Warsteiner, Kostritzer, Bitburger, Spaten and Kulmbacher - all have the built-in taps and venting bit where you will eventually install the two-piece bung.

Getting the rubber bung out can be a real adventure. But you have to in order to clean them.

Sometimes, especially if you buy new kegs from a homebrew shop, you'll get kegs without the built-in tap. For those you need a tapping system of some sort.

Bob

Dagatris said:

I'm not quite sure how you'd get one open to clean/refill and then be able to seal it up airtight again.

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There is a two-piece rubber bung that seals the keg. It's a b!tch to remove and install, but that's because it seals so well!

In the other thread you posted that they have some sort of coating inside that will wear down overtime. How many uses have you averaged out of each mini keg?

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Yes.

Okay, that's a bit of fun. Really, I haven't the foggiest. I inspect them before use. If I see something that doesn't look like smooth coated metal, it's into the recycling with that keg. I've had precisely one go bad in the past ten years. That said, I don't use them for every batch! My output varies: Some cornies, some bottles, some mini-kegs, some a mix of two or all three. It's literally a case of Your Mileage May Vary.

Bob

I bought a couple of these because I had a "das bier zapfer" it has a push pump and a lever to dispense. I have used bitburger kegs before and would recommend this system. The CO2 dispenser for it is pretty nice too perhaps I will find one on CL someday.

Mini Keg Equipment :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

Before I got my cornies, I experimented with mini kegs- They are a lot easier to lug around, but you definetly have to have a CO2 adapter or a server like the Avanti Mini-Pub-it works with Heiniken and the gravity fed with CO2 and chill plate (Since I have kegorator now, I guess I should stop letting mine collect dust and sell it)...

I had bought four minikegs from Midwest, one had a little dent. Called them up, shipped me a replacement free of charge (As stated before, get the two piece bungs, and the brush is kind of handy).

I guess the best way to learn is to go buy myself one of these little mini kegs.

If it's gravity-fed, wouldn't there be a lot of sediment from a homebrew?

Not particularly. I used to get round that by fining in the bright tank and racking off the lees/trub. The first glass can be hazy, but the rest, as Charlie says, is clear aleing.

If you rack straight from the primary into these things, you're asking for trouble, IMO.

Bob

Man, the tap for these things is expensive!!!

I thought about going the Kulmbacher route, as I love that beer, but those systems don't use the CO2 cart's....

I think I'm just going to save up few bucks in the piggy bank, and invest in a 2.5 gal corny.

Thanks for splitting off this thread, though, Jason, great work! This will be a good reference for the future. If I get a chance, I'll try to remember to wiki-fy some of this for later.

The 5L my kids have been coming home with were for Root Beer. Any difference vs the bier filled 5L containers? Pulled the bung, cleaned and filled
one with some 18 year old black powder then set it in a 6' deep post hole back filled.
Made a watering hole for the horses at the ranch after adding a some 1/2" pipe to trickle feed it from the spring.

I have both styles.

If you get the kegs with the tap built in on the bottom you don't need to buy a tap.

Man, the tap for these things is expensive!!!

I thought about going the Kulmbacher route, as I love that beer, but those systems don't use the CO2 cart's....

I think I'm just going to save a few bucks, and invest in a 2.5 gal corny.

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Yeah, the tap does seem a bit spendy and I'd more likely use them solely as gravity-dispensed systems. That said, that starter kit that Bob posted doesn't seem too bad and you'd still get the opportunity to use the CO2 carts on reuse.

To clarify - I meant save a few bucks, and stuff them into a corny fund jar, and eventually buy a 2.5g corny. I wasn't trying to insinuate that 2.5g cornies are cheaper than 5L mini-kegs. I don't think anyone thought I was saying that. But in re-reading my wording, I wanted to clear it up, as I was vague.

Carry on. Pay no mind to the blathering idiot over here in the corner.

To clarify - I meant save a few bucks, and stuff them into a corny fund jar, and eventually buy a 2.5g corny. I wasn't trying to insinuate that 2.5g cornies are cheaper than 5L mini-kegs. I don't think anyone thought I was saying that. But in re-reading my wording, I wanted to clear it up, as I was vague.

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Sheesh, what a buffoon!

I'm pickin' up what you're throwin' down, dude. No worries.

I'd thought about a 2.5g corny as well.

When I started Homebrewing I used these exclusively. I view these as a good lesson on how to keg. I now have been Kegging for the past three years and have a whole set up sitting in my basement. Anyone wanting them shoot me an offer and I would be will to let them go.

No reasonable offer refused and in fact if you pay shipping and buy me a beer someday I would let them go. I think I have 10 - 12 of them and this includeds the pressure release bungs and tap.

TD

I've currently got 2 of these, one a Coors Light from my dad, the other a Paulaner Oktoberfest that we had last weekend (it was awesome). I'm gonna set them up to soak in some Oxyclean for a week.

I'm thinking about filling one of them up with non-carbed Apfelwein in a few weeks when it's ready. That way, I can fill it to the top, and not worry about it exploding on me. The other one I'd like to fill with beer. Any suggestions on how much head space to leave for natural carbing purposes? Or tricks on how to know when it's almost full? I saw in another thread that 1-2 tablespoons of corn sugar is enough to carb one of these little fellas.

I got the bung out of one of them ok, it's in 3 pieces. Is that normal? The rubber bung, the little twist-top piece, and a little plastic piece that sits inside the bung to vent it.

I'm thinking that the pull out tap on the bottom does not come completely out. So I just need to leave it pulled out and turned to the open position while soaking it. I'll have to be very careful, cause if this part breaks off, I think the whole keg will be garbage. I've not seen replacements for these sold anywhere.

Can you naturally carb and use the party star tap on the mini-kegs that have the gravity dispense tap?

Kevin,

Simply, "Yes". The Party Star tap doesn't care what's in the sidewall of the keg. It only cares about a two-piece bung.

Bob

As long as you don't over-pressurize them you're good to go. Since you're naturally carbing them (assuming you cold crash them before you pull your first draft), your first glass or two will have sediment. If you don't cold crash them to get the sediment to the bottom it will just be a little cloudy.

Yeah, you can certainly use the Philtap on those kegs that have a built in tap. I have some mild conditioning in a few now. Like Bob, I am a bit obsessed with naturally conditioned session beers and this suits perfectly.

Not carbonated above 1.9 volumes, obviously.

Amazon.com: Avanti Mini Pub 5-Liter Beer Tapper: Kitchen & DiningHas anybody looked at these? I'm seriously considering buying one unless someone can convince me it's not worth it. You can use ALL 5L kegs (including Heineken). That should make it good to clean out a keg and fill it with my own. Now if I could figure out a way to put my own label on the keg.:rockin:

Here's the mfgr' page:
Product Catalog - Model MBD5L - 5L Mini Beer Keg

They have a very detailed PDF showing parts, assembly, etc etc etc.

I have a kegerator already, so it's not much good to me -- but I will admit, the first time I saw these in stores, I was DROOLING. It just would've required me switching from 5g Cornies over to the mini kegs, and I wasn't really planning on going that way. (I like 'em, they're just not for me.)

Yeah... see eventually, I will have a kegerator or keezer, I guess I'm sorta looking at it as an intermediate step. I think it could be good in that respect. Plus, when I do get the kegerator, I can pass this on to some other new brewer and help them along.

About a year ago I read a write up on a DIY tap for these. I'll try to dig up a link later, I have to dash to a parent-teacher conference.

Edit: Can't find the original site (think it was on geocities) but here is the same on NB forums http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=61167