Double IPA Lawson's Finest Sip of Sunshine Clone

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I did two batches. 1 in the primary for 20 days and one moved to a secondary after 10 where I dry hopped for another 10 days as suggested. Both were good but the one that I moved to the secondary was significantly better with a really nice finish. The brew I left in the primary was still good but has a very bitter finish. Almost a grape fruit flavor. This was my first all grain attempt and it is the best beer I have made to date!!
 
So its been a while...My sunshine has been complete. In the end its a really good IPA but I wouldn't call it "american IPA" and its definitely not sunshine. Its much more caramely in color and there is a sweetness to it. Mouth feel feels heavier and doesn't "dance around" (as i like to explain it) the way that SoS does.

I made the extract recipe and even substituted some of the light extract for extra light because I do half boils. I'm thinking about trying this again this weekend, and changing some things around. What I'm going to change, I'm not sure yet but I'm definitely going to start with using all extra light dme. Probably do a late malt addition to keep caramelization to minimum. Issue with that is how much that will mess with hop utilization (i've always been foggy on that).

I've attached a picture of a small sample....didn't want a whole glass cuz i've been trying not to drink mid week lately lol.

Leme know what you guys think.

IMG_20150415_194001082.jpg
 
I've almost always done the 3/4 cup for any brew. Now I'm kegging tho and did this one the low and slow way up to about 12-14 psi.
 
While I've never had this beer, from what friends that have had it tell me, I'm sure I'd love it. And now that I see the recipe, I'm sure I would. It's pretty similar to the Surly Abrasive clone (which is one of my favorite beers). Mostly all citra, similar grain bill. In fact, even though the Abrasive clone uses all citra even for bittering, I used hop extract for bittering in my version and I've heard that it's most likely from Columbus hops, so my recipe is even closer to this one. And it's a bit young, but so far, my Abrasive clone is awesome.
 
Im drinking one of these right now. I love this beer. I think in order to clone it you need the vermont/conan yeast. However the color coming out of the can is so light. It almost looks like it is 100% 2row. Im having trouble wrapping my head around the carared malt and oats in the clone malt bill...
 
I should specify... I was drinking quite a bit of draft SoS when I was inspired to attempt a clone. The draft version, especially in its earlier permutations, was significantly different than the final dialed-in can version. I believe this recipe is a great representation of the early draft version, a terrific beer.
 
In no way am I criticizing you haha, just making a comment. I have made a coupke ipas and yes there was way too much caramel and darkness that it was quite off. Id be interested to see how this came out with like a 98% pils or 2row base and maybe a little munich and or carapils. ..
 
sunshine22 said:
In no way am I criticizing you haha, just making a comment. I have made a coupke ipas and yes there was way too much caramel and darkness that it was quite off. Id be interested to see how this came out with like a 98% pils or 2row base and maybe a little munich and or carapils. ..
Click to expand...

I was at Prohibition Pig yesterday and neglected to get a SoS on draft! Too many other good choices. I'll probably grab a few cans this week to see what differences are apparent.
 
Well, I was so proud of myself moving to all grain and making two great batches of this. I guess I got a little too confident.

I made two more batches and they are terrible. They don't taste remotely like beer. More like burnt plastic.

What did I do??

Fermentation was held at 64

I am starting to think that maybe I did not do a good job harvesting the yeast from my first two batches and maybe harvested something else. Everything else I did exactly the same but the starter was made from a new vial of yeast.

Anyone that can offer some help in determining my problem it would be much appreciated.

Just to test it I am making a starter with the same yeast that I harvested to see if it produces the same nastiness.
 
mtnagel said:
While I've never had this beer, from what friends that have had it tell me, I'm sure I'd love it. And now that I see the recipe, I'm sure I would.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and try it when you can if you're an ipa lover. I had this at a local pub dry hopped with simcoe in a cask and it's one of my all time faves
 
tdexterc said:
Hey guys, I contacted Lawson's about the yeast used and it is not Conan. Apparently it's straight up American ale yeast! Cheers!
Click to expand...


I've had SoS and other Lawson's beers and sort of figured it was a neutral american yeast. I've never seen any post confirming the yeast that's used though, so that's great to see this confirmed. I'm interested a bit more in the hop profile for this one. There's certainly Citra hops in this (no question about that) but there is definitely another hop in there ......can't put my finger on it. Could be some columbus and/or simcoe ? Not saying I know for sure. Just saying I know there's another/other hop/s in it.
 
My 2 pennies:

I've never had this beer but I was looking at pictures of it and if I were going to try to duplicate that color I wouldn't use anything but pale malt and maybe less than 10% vienna, and the carapils. I wouldn't use british ale yeast unless I were kegging. And I wouldn't use s05. In my experience it attentuates awesome but leaves a buttery flavor in the beer that lingers for weeks. I like wyeast 1272. Secondary if you plan on dry hopping. JUST DO IT..... I like the idea of trying a massive whirlpool addition without dry hopping. Think I might try that on my next batch.
 
--Dom-- said:
My 2 pennies:

..... I like the idea of trying a massive whirlpool addition without dry hopping. Think I might try that on my next batch.
Click to expand...

I have been doing this a lot lately. 5-7 ounces in a 45 minute hopstand once wort is under 180. Another 15-20 minutes to chill to 60 (immersion chiller). Then I just leave it sit for 30 minutes to let hops settle to bottom of my kettle. So, probably 1:30 from flame out to fermenter. No dry hop. I really like this strategy. The turn around is a lot faster. It is a particularly good strategy for an APA where you want a lot of hop flavor, aroma, but don't quite need as much as you do with a big IPA. Still playing around with this...... but it is close to becoming a permanent strategy for me. Latest batch in this ongoing experiment. I brewed it 14 days ago...... probably already close to 2 gallons gone out of the keg.

comet.jpg
 
I scaled this recipe down to drop the ABV a bit and came up with this version. I am following Braufessor's recommendation for a huge hop stand. Gravity has dropped from 1.066 to 1.018 after one week. Going to let it go for one more week to try and get a few more points out of the yeast then into the keg. Smells amazingly peachy and citrusy in the fermentor so far. Can't wait.

7.6 Lbs Marris Otter
2 Lbs Vienna Malt
10 oz. Carapils
5 oz. Caramunich (Type I)
13 oz Oat Flakes
13 oz Sugar (added at 10mins)

Mash @ 150F for 60 mins

0.6 oz Columbus @ 60 (14% AA)
0.8 oz Citra @ 20 (12.5% AA)
2.4 oz Citra @ 5 (12.5% AA)
4.8 oz Citra @ Whirlpool/Hopstand @ 180F for 30 mins (12.5% AA)

- Yeast starter from 1 vial of YeastBay Vermont Ale

- Cooled wort to 66F after boil and pitched decanted starter.
- Maintain 66- 68 for 3 days then let free rise till fermentation complete
- Rack to keg.
- Attempt to wait patiently for 1 week until sampling.*

Water profile: Add gypsum to kettle hit the following profile.
Ca - 26.6ppm
Mg - 18ppm
Na- 25ppm
SO4 - 210.2ppm

Cl - 50ppm
 
Trying this recipe this weekend
I noticed lots of fermentation posts but no tasting notes? So, how did it turn out?!?
 
I just transferred my version to the keg last night. So my tasting is limited to a sip of the dregs. With that caveat, I will say this is looking amazing. This beer has a huge peachy, fruity aroma from the Citra. Color is a beautiful golden straw color. Taste is very fruity, not much grapefruit as much as peach flavor. It will be very interesting to see how the CO2 and cold conditioning change the flavors. Either way, I believe this is a hell of a good recipe.
 
Brewed this on 5/26. I subbed German pilsner for the base malt and carafoam for the carapils (I had carafoam on hand). I also had a pound of Mosaic in the freezer, so I subbed Moasaic for all the citra. My efficiency was higher than expected, so I also dropped the corn sugar.

Sounds like I changed a lot, but really just small tweaks. Base recipe looks phenomenal.
Whirlpool is REQUIRED, for all you lazy brewers out there.

Sitting in my (new) fermentation chamber at a lovely 64F right now. I plan on dryhopping in primary which will save me the day to chill everything out of suspension prior to racking. The smell is...delicious.

Will post back on how things turn out, even though mine is different than everyone else's.

Cheers, and thanks for the recipe.
 
Just to post back results...

I dryhopped in primary, starting on day 10 with half and the other half on day 14. Cold crashed to 34F for two days. Kegged today and did burst carb because I'm impatient.

Phenomenal.

Mosaic isn't quite citra but it is better for my tastes, lending a bit sharper bitterness / simcoe pine. I believe conan added more tropical and fruity notes which may make up for the lack of citra in any case.

I wouldn't change a thing.
 
sunshine22 said:
In no way am I criticizing you haha, just making a comment. I have made a coupke ipas and yes there was way too much caramel and darkness that it was quite off. Id be interested to see how this came out with like a 98% pils or 2row base and maybe a little munich and or carapils. ..
Click to expand...

Will report back in a couple weeks. I just brewed "this" last night. After seeing the pictures and running the grain bill through Beersmith I decided to cut out the caramels and just did a total grain bill of:

11 lb Bel 2-Row
3 lb Vienna
1 lb Flaked Oats
1 lb Dextrose @10 minutes

All else held the same.

I had 5.25 gallons into the fermenter at an OG of 1.074. Color appears to be absolutely spot on. Hydro sample was delectable.

Also, I was planning on adding the Carapils, but like a dunce I forgot to add it to the mash.
 
So after making 3 batches of this as originally noted with dry hopping, I decided to try the mega whirlpool at 180 degrees instead, I was a little skeptical about losing all of the aroma during fermentation but it seems to have held very well right to kegging! The flat taste sample at kegging was Spot ON and I must say, equal or better than previous batches! The best part is that this allows me to go straight to the keg after 10 days in primary, shortening my overall time by over a week and a half (with dry hopping and cold crashing).
I may use the mega-whirlpool on all of my beers from now on if the results are like this.
THANKS to all who have suggested it and once again, this forum is the greatest place for exchange of information.
 
carvetop said:
think the brew comes out VERY close to SoS draft. The canned version, for whatever reason, is noticeably better IMO.
Click to expand...


I haven't had the draft version. I'm looking to clone the can version. Would I be better off using the BYO Double Sunshine recipe? Or is this one closer to the SoS cans?
 
Not sure what to tell you about the canned version. It may just be the difference in packaging. Heady also tastes very different on draft than it does out of the can (with the canned version being much better, IMO).
 
Foosier said:
I just transferred my version to the keg last night. So my tasting is limited to a sip of the dregs. With that caveat, I will say this is looking amazing. This beer has a huge peachy, fruity aroma from the Citra. Color is a beautiful golden straw color. Taste is very fruity, not much grapefruit as much as peach flavor. It will be very interesting to see how the CO2 and cold conditioning change the flavors. Either way, I believe this is a hell of a good recipe.
Click to expand...

Might brew this soon, how was the final product?
 
So I did a side by comparison with a real SOS.

Color was spot on. The S04 was much closer in flavor than the us05. Mine was missing that hop kick that dry hopping brings. The flavors were good, but next time I will hop stand and dry hop. I also feel it was missing something in the body, not sure if a little crystal or meladions will help. Mine just felt thin and did not have that perfect balance SOS has. Mine also tasted a little bitter, maybe from the long hop stand.

Next time cut hop stand in half, dry hop with other half. Add 2-4 oz melandions and/or 2-4 c10
 
Braufessor said:
I have been doing this a lot lately. 5-7 ounces in a 45 minute hopstand once wort is under 180. Another 15-20 minutes to chill to 60 (immersion chiller). Then I just leave it sit for 30 minutes to let hops settle to bottom of my kettle. So, probably 1:30 from flame out to fermenter. No dry hop. I really like this strategy. The turn around is a lot faster. It is a particularly good strategy for an APA where you want a lot of hop flavor, aroma, but don't quite need as much as you do with a big IPA. Still playing around with this...... but it is close to becoming a permanent strategy for me. Latest batch in this ongoing experiment. I brewed it 14 days ago...... probably already close to 2 gallons gone out of the keg.
Click to expand...

Are you still using a heavy WP and no dry hopping as your practice?
Do you enjoy the results?
Is it just as good or better than a WP and dry hopping?
Are you still getting great flavor and aroma from just a heavy WP?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm thinking of using this technique as well and skipping the dry hop.
 
lilbova3 said:
Are you still using a heavy WP and no dry hopping as your practice?
Do you enjoy the results?
Is it just as good or better than a WP and dry hopping?
Are you still getting great flavor and aroma from just a heavy WP?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm thinking of using this technique as well and skipping the dry hop.
Click to expand...

I have been doing this on and off - comparing to other processes. I would say this is a certainly a far easier and simpler process. I would also say that in my experimenting, it has gotten me results I am consistently pleased with - especially in comparison to how how little effort it takes.

That said, I would say for flat out "best" results - this is the process I now use for most of my pale ales and IPA's:
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

It increases my turn around time to 21 days or even a bit more. But, in the end, it has resulted in the best hoppy beers I have brewed. (Not that the other way was bad..... just that I have found this to be better.) It would still come back to my priority though. If I wanted to turn around a really good, hoppy pale ale/IPA in 14 days - grain to glass - I absolutely would not hesitate to overdo the whirlpool/hopstand and skip dry hop. If I don't care that it takes a bit longer and am willing to do a few extra steps and take 21+ days..... I go with the above link.

This is my basic hopping pattern now in 6.5 gallon batches, 1.055 type beers usually.

60minutes = .75 oz.Warrior
Flame out = 3 oz. hops
Chill to 180 and let sit for 30 minutes/whirlpooling = 3 oz. hops
Day 5-6 in primary = 3 oz. dry hop
Day 12-14 = cold crash and gelatin in fermenter.
Day 14-16 = 2 day dry hop as outlined above in link 3 oz. hops
Day 17 = jump to serving keg
Day 17-21+ = force carbonate
 
Brewed this as my second full AG batch. Wow. What is an amazing recipe. Ths beer is far and away the best thing I've ever brewed. Aroma is sweet and fruity and the flavor is so clean and drinkable. Tastes like more.

Thank you!
 
StevePalmer said:
OP - Regarding batch size, how many gallons did you start with at boil?

Thanks..
Click to expand...

I usually start with a pre-boil volume of 8G for big IPAs like this. On my rig, I'm left with about 6.25-6.5G after a vigorous 1 hour boil. Easily yields 5G of finished beer to the keg.
 
Is the whirlpool for 30 minutes 180 degrees post the 60 minute boil? So a total of 1.5 hours in the brew kettle?

carvetop said:
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Conan
Yeast Starter: Yes - See Notes
Batch Size (Gallons): 6
Original Gravity: 1.080
Final Gravity: 1.016
IBU: 84
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 10 Days - 64F up to 68F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 10 Days @ 68F
Tasting Notes: After a month in the keg, this is very tasty and very close to the original.


11 Lbs Belgian Pale Ale Malt
3 Lbs Vienna Malt
1 Lbs Oat Flakes
12 oz. Carapils
4 oz. Carared
4 oz. Caramunich (Type I)
1 Lbs Corn Sugar (added at 10mins)

Mash @ 152F for 60 mins

1.5 oz Columbus @ 60
1.0 oz Citra @ 20
3.0 oz Citra @ 5
3.0 oz Citra @ Whirlpool/Hopstand @ 180F for 30 mins

3.0 oz Citra @ Dry Hop (in two installments)

- Yeast starter from 1 vial of Conan containing ~30B cells. 250ml -> 1000ml -> decant -> 1000ml

- Cooled wort to 63F after boil and pitched decanted starter. Increase temp 1F per day up to 68F.
- After 10 days, lower temp to 60F for 24 hrs.
- Purge secondary vessel with CO2, rack onto half of dry hops, allow temp to rise to 68F.
- At day 14, add the rest of the dry hops.
- At day 18, rack to keg.
- Attempt to wait patiently for 2 weeks until sampling.

Water profile:
Ca - 142ppm
Mg - 26ppm
Na- 15ppm
SO4 - 305ppm
Cl - 80ppm
Click to expand...
 

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