Using a pasta maker to mill grain.

While making pasta with my pasta roller thingy:



it occured to me that it may very well serve as a grain mill. Sure, it might not have a hopper and may not have large knurled rollers but it may work, right?

If one were to hack off the crank handle so that it could be attached to a drill, use a dremel with a cutting disk to cut some shallow lines into the rollers to aid in dragging the grain through and to build a makeshift hopper out of some spare wood would this do the trick? The smallest gap is .031 and can be adjusted to larger sizes.

I'm asking before I go out and pick up a cheapy in a garage sale and try it out.

Wadda you think ladies and gents? Have I just made it feasible for everyone to start milling their own grain for approx. $30 or am I wasting my time?

fixed that picture for ya:

you could always make a hopper for it.

i guess it just depends on how big the space is that they would pass through. you want them cracked open, not shredded.

Thanks for fixing the pic.

I can set the gap to the same as the Barley crusher as well as larger and smaller. So gap size doesn't seem to be an issue.

Very true, I could always fashion a hopper out of wood or...

... wait for it...

... METAL!

Nathan Explosion wouldn't have it any other way (this will surely be lost on those who are un-metal).

The question, I suppose, is whether it would be better than a $20 Corona mill. Seems like the hardest part will be getting the rollers right.

i wouldn't use "heavy metal"...sheet metal might work better

Sound advice from the mash-pit.

:rockin:

It might work. If not, I suspect it will fail spectacularly. I'm interested to see how it turns out. Instead of scoring the rollers with a Dremel, try roughing them on a diagonal with some 40-60 grit sandpaper. They don't really need a ton of "bite."

why do you need the rollers to be roughed up anyway? my LHBS is flat rollers and i find it to be the best crush out there. the other rollers with the rough surfaces like to shred grains.

Well then, if it has received the blessing of the tech-diety Yuri Rage, it surely must be worth a go.

Like he said, the worst that can happen is miserable failure!!!

I can totally see it breaking, exploding under high revolutions or otherwise crapping out half way through a 20 pound grind! I can't wait to swear and then throw it across my backyard and onto the street.

Death - it depends on the mill. Larger diameter rollers can be much smoother than smaller ones. I've found that a medium knurl that isn't quite "sharp" does a pretty good job at providing enough friction to pull the grain through without shredding it (using 2" dia. rollers). I really want to make a smooth roller mill with 4" dia. rollers, but I don't have the time to devote to it right now.

yeah, the one at the store is huge.

we plan to eventually construct a custom mill similar to the one at the LHBS when i move into a larger brewery the idea is to have it pour directly into the mash while stirring, with no physical labor involved aside from pouring grain into the hopper.

:rockin:

Nostrildamus said:

Well then, if it has received the blessing of the tech-diety Yuri Rage, it surely must be worth a go.

Like he said, the worst that can happen is miserable failure!!!

I can totally see it breaking, exploding under high revolutions or otherwise crapping out half way through a 20 pound grind! I can't wait to swear and then throw it across my backyard and onto the street.

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lol, i love those type of experiments!

One thing to do is to try an experiment...Which I happen to be doing right this minute.

I was garage sale-ing today and came upon something interesting, it's not quite a corona grain mill and it is not quite a hand crank meat grinder either...It is a hand crank "food processor." According to google it's from the 1890's. And it cost me 2 whole dollars...

LF & C Universal No. 0 Universal Food Chopper " It reads LF & C New Britain Conn USA - No. 0 Universal Food Chopper - L F & C New Britain, Conn. USA - Pat Oct 12, 1897, Apr 18, 1899, Re, Sept 5, 1899. The handle reads Pat - May 15, 1900 Canada Pat Oct 12, 1897 - Great Britain 2432697, D.R.P. No 104762 Brevete SG DG 1897 Belgium 139446.

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I just ground 5 ounces of 2- row and am in the process of mashing it in a mason jar with 12.5 ounces of water as per beersmith. After the 45 minmash and sparge with another .64 cups of water (15 mL), I'll strain it, do an iodine test, and take a grav reading. At 75% efficiency I should have a preboil gravity of 1.094....

So I hopefully will be able to evaluate my crush....and my efficiency with it... I figure I'm out 5 ounces of grain, and 2 bucks if I fail. The thing is, I found a TON of these during the yard sale trail today...so it MAY be, with some modifications, a decent alternative to a corona mill, if people come across them for a couple bucks and want to try them....

I have a pasta machine, I may try the same thing one day...

There's nothing wrong with experimenting...think of all the homebrew experiments that have become standard tools to use...the 5 or 10 gallon cooler, the oxygen bottle/airstone, the aquarium pump/airstone, the turkey frier.

Revvy - AWESOME experiment. I'd run the trial a few times or do a bigger batch. As you miniaturize the brewing process, the margin for error increases greatly.

Yuri_Rage said:

Revvy - AWESOME experiment. I'd run the trial a few times or do a bigger batch. As you miniaturize the brewing process, the margin for error increases greatly.

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I plan on it, I just didn't want to waste a lot of grain on zero conversion...Plus I didn't have any grain on hand, and my LHBS is closed on Sunday, but the beerstore in town that has an aisle of homebrew supplies was open, and they sell breiss 2 row for 1.89/pound in sealed bags...

Where I am at so far...I "sparged" and strained the liquor...I did an iodine conversion, and I definitely had conversion, my tincture of iodine drops pretty much stayed the same. I put the sample in the fridge to cool down enough to take a reading. But I did taste it, and it tastes like every other preboil hydro sample I have ever tasted...

I'll post the grav reading in a bit...I have never calculated efficiency before (I've always figured if I hit my preboil and postboil gravs then I did OK.) So after I post the reading I may need help...

For all the N00bs, and other lurkers reading this, experimentation is fun, and you can't die from trying to make beer (well, most of the time) so before you post a "can I do this?" kind of thread, instead consider doing it anyway, and post your results instead....Who knows, you may end up taking the hobby to a whole new level!!!

Yuri_Rage said:

Revvy - AWESOME experiment. I'd run the trial a few times or do a bigger batch. As you miniaturize the brewing process, the margin for error increases greatly.

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Interesting, indeed, Revvy. I did something a bit similar a few weeks ago to determine the PG of some Briess pils that I had.

Keep us posted of the results.

Well, Beersmith says I should have gotten 1.094, I got 1.071...

It's not great....BUT I will scale it upward enough to actually be able to run it through my mashton, and actually sparge....but it's not a failure. And damn, the hydro sample tastes like it should!!!!

Any update on the pasta roller project? I didn't even think about this until today, these things are so easy for me to come by...I've got two in my house right now and at least one more available to me at work...

If nothing else, I might take this whole thing apart and find someone to machine these rollers for me so I can start to make my own mill...

TerapinChef said:

Any update on the pasta roller project? I didn't even think about this until today, these things are so easy for me to come by...I've got two in my house right now and at least one more available to me at work...

If nothing else, I might take this whole thing apart and find someone to machine these rollers for me so I can start to make my own mill...

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Yeah, I have one from working with polymer clay. They're cheap. It looks like you gotta be the one to test the theory our.

Revvy said:

Well, Beersmith says I should have gotten 1.094, I got 1.071...

It's not great....BUT I will scale it upward enough to actually be able to run it through my mashton, and actually sparge....but it's not a failure. And damn, the hydro sample tastes like it should!!!!

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Forget the hydrometer, it taste right! I use hydrometers as a guide... As posted, with the smaller batch, the percentage is easily off. Hope the actual brew goes better! Worst comes to worst, you can always re pitch it and still have good beer! Two birds with one stone!

I'm currently accepting donations of pasta machines to further my research in this process. Willing to pay shipping within reason. Thank you for your time.

Seriously.

I'll post my progress on this thread, but I've been told by SWMBO that I'm not allowed to cannibalize either of our pasta machines that we currently have. Not sure why, I'm the only one that ever uses them. But that's a whole nother story...

Well, depending on how good your Italian is you can check this out.

mulino

or someone else translated it here.

Bodensatz Brewing - The Beer Site

Michaels, and the larger Joan Fabrics (like the one on 13 and I think harper or little mack?) Have AMACO brand pasta machines for 20 bucks, they're near the FIMO and Sculpy Polymer clays.
It's the same pasta maker I originally bought at a cooking supply store 15 years ago when I used to work in Polymer clay, amaco just repackaged them for use with clay...but having owned one of each, theyre the same ones.

Between what I know and what Babel fish could translate, he just took the rollers to a machinist to have them turned. But it proves that it can be done, and it looks good, I think!

My first AG I used plastic bags with a cup of grain in each bag, this inside a paper bag with a rolling pin on the butcher block table. Yup I was brewing but with a rather low efficiency. I still have to borrow a mill but not for a while maybe someday i'll have my own.

Revvy said:

Michaels, and the larger Joan Fabrics (like the one on 13 and I think harper or little mack?) Have AMACO brand pasta machines for 20 bucks, they're near the FIMO and Sculpy Polymer clays.
It's the same pasta maker I originally bought at a cooking supply store 15 years ago when I used to work in Polymer clay, amaco just repackaged them for use with clay...but having owned one of each, theyre the same ones.

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It's also the one I now own... as of maybe 20 minutes ago. 40% off coupon at Michaels...which made it like $15. I'll pay that for an experiment anytime...and better yet, SWMBO reached in her purse and paid for it!

Where'd the coupon come from? I'm into that for 15 bucks. Also, I read an easy way to fix the lack of grip is to throw some strips of friction tape on the rollers. And as a second note, I'm kind of into the idea of the guy that made one from wooden rollers.

If you buy something at Michael they give you a coupon when they give you your receipt. Also, I think the coupon is usually in the Sunday paper ad insert.
Earlier I bought two hardwood rolling pins from WalMart to make a mill, but still haven't done anything with them. They were $4.99 each so I don't have a lot invested in that project either.
I would think it would need to be a very strong tape... grain is pretty hard stuff. I think I'm going to see what kind of finish I get by "slapping" the rollers with a very coarse flat file. This is just one more time I wish I still had access to the machine shop where I worked about 15 years ago! I could knurl these rollers in minutes!

DeathBrewer said:

yeah, the one at the store is huge.

we plan to eventually construct a custom mill similar to the one at the LHBS when i move into a larger brewery the idea is to have it pour directly into the mash while stirring, with no physical labor involved aside from pouring grain into the hopper.

:rockin:



lol, i love those type of experiments!

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could do that as a homebrewer too. I've seen a 3 bucket system. The top bucket holds the grain. The second bucket has a hopper inside with the mill mounted at the bottom, using a motor to push the mill. The bottom bucket collects it w/a hole cut on the side for the grain to escape once milled. Set that puppy up next to your MLT and mash in!! Pretty ingenious and cheap to make.

Set that up with the black box being created and you could for example:

1. In your MLT, control heating elements (or elec switch for gas) to kick on to the right temp then shut down. Start up the heat recirc to temp.
2. Kick on a motorized mash paddle
3. Kick on the motorized grain mill.. mash in..etc.

Closer to an automated brewery?

OK...it works! I took it apart and roughed the rollers by hitting them MANY times with the edge of a big file. Took maybe 30-45 minutes to rough them both up (they are both driven BTW) and once I got it back together I went to the basement, got some grain, dropped it in and turned the crank.... milled grain was the result! The gap is adjustable too, so I was able to get what I think it going to work pretty well. I think I'm going to be very happy with my $15 mill!
I think tomorrow night being Friday I may just have to BREW!!! I will have to do a partial boil though, no cooler yet. No outside burner either, and it's supposed to be cold and rainy here then.

Gonefishing said:

OK...it works! I took it apart and roughed the rollers by hitting them MANY times with the edge of a big file. Took maybe 30-45 minutes to rough them both up (they are both driven BTW) and once I got it back together I went to the basement, got some grain, dropped it in and turned the crank.... milled grain was the result! The gap is adjustable too, so I was able to get what I think it going to work pretty well. I think I'm going to be very happy with my $15 mill!
I think tomorrow night being Friday I may just have to BREW!!! I will have to do a partial boil though, no cooler yet. No outside burner either, and it's supposed to be cold and rainy here then.

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Thanks for reporting back to the thread. Glad it did work. Any chance you can post pictures of it (with the modified rollers)?

I just dropped my rollers off at a machine shop that is going to attempt to knurl them for me.

So when are we gonna start seeing pictures peeps?

Gonefishing said:

OK...it works!

(they are both driven BTW)

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I think this may be a big key as to why such small rollers can pull the grain in.
My only concern would be durability of the mechanism. Grain is alot harder than raw pasta. So i am interested to see how well it goes once you put a few pounds of grain through it. Especially that crystal, it is hard stuff.

Craig

CBBaron said:

My only concern would be durability of the mechanism. Grain is alot harder than raw pasta. So i am interested to see how well it goes once you put a few pounds of grain through it. Especially that crystal, it is hard stuff.

Craig

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They can take a lot...they push polymer clay through them for years without problems and that stuff, even conditioned, is pretty "chewey." That's why we've adopted them.

Grain is harder, but will break long before the mechanism would...a half inch slab of fimo is nothing to sneeze at.

Revvy said:

They can take a lot...they push polymer clay through them for years without problems and that stuff, even conditioned, is pretty "chewey." That's why we've adopted them.

Grain is harder, but will break long before the mechanism would...a half inch slab of fimo is nothing to sneeze at.

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My Wife uses Fimo as well as she is an artist and I bought her a pasta thingy as well and after like 5 yrs of use it's still in great shape and does what it's supposed to do.

Cheers
Mongo

Mongo said:

My Wife uses Fimo as well as she is an artist and I bought her a pasta thingy as well and after like 5 yrs of use it's still in great shape and does what it's supposed to do.

Cheers
Mongo

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Oh crap, you know what I just remebered, does she have any of those metal "texture plates" that you could get for them? (Now thy're plastic) you sandwiched the clay between the metal plates and ran them through the rollers...I wonder if they could be actually be cut and bonded to the rollers rather than needing to have them machined.

I do intend to post pictures, or more correctly, a link to them, as soon as I can get them off my DIL's camera. I used it for about 1/2 pound of 2 row tonight in a quick test and it worked fine. Tomorrow is a better test though, will be running 6 pounds of 2 row and some crystal and wheat through it. I think I'm going to take it off its base and bolt it to a board so I can mount it on a bucket though, it's unwieldy clamped to a sideboard.

Gonefishing said:

I do intend to post pictures, or more correctly, a link to them, as soon as I can get them off my DIL's camera. I used it for about 1/2 pound of 2 row tonight in a quick test and it worked fine. Tomorrow is a better test though, will be running 6 pounds of 2 row and some crystal and wheat through it. I think I'm going to take it off its base and bolt it to a board so I can mount it on a bucket though, it's unwieldy clamped to a sideboard.

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I was wondering how people were dealing with the clamp on stand issue, it doesn't make for easy falling into a bucket having the metal base on it.