Force carbonating

When force carbonating, do you have to leave the beer hooked up to the gas line?

I've read the different ways of carbing like the "set and forget" and the "shaking" but there is never any mention of whether or not to leave the gas line connected to the keg while it is carbonating.

in my very limited experience, i think either way can work. i didn't have much success by forcing the CO2 in and unhooking the lines though.

i had much better success leaving the lines on for 24 hours at 30 PSI, then turning the gas off, unhooking the gas, purging the air, resetting the PSI to about 10, and rehooking the lines.

the pro to unhooking the lines after the immediate forcing of CO2 would be to save gas if there's a leak somewhere. i don't have a leak, so leaving the lines hooked up overnight ensured that my beer would be getting CO2 and just made me feel a little more confident in the process.

again, i've got super-limited experience, just two kegs thus far, and i'm still learning. but i got better results when the keg was already chilled and the lines stayed hooked up throughout the process.

I kegged my first batch with CO2 tonight (previously did a corn-sugar priming in the keg and a picnic set up to dispense). So again, this is "my understanding" but it works like this as far as I can understand:

1) shake carb will carb your beer up quickly, so once you are done shaking it about, you can actually disconnect the gas until you want to serve it. At which time reconnect at ca. 12 psi and you should be good to go

2) 24hr high pressure carb, as described above, needs the gas on for 24 hrs and then again for a few days (?) before you dispense

3) set and forget you keep the keg hooked up to the gas

I'm doing option 2, I have my farmhouse summer ale at 30 psi just now, turn it down to 12 tomorrow and it should be drinkable come the weekend.

I've been force carbonating for about four years now, and have done it many different ways like setting the CO2 and leaving it on for a week or so, shaking and disconnecting, Cranking it up shaking and dropping it back down. they all work, but what I found is that it is good to have a line connected to a picnic tap to test the carbonation daily, because you can always add more but it's hard to take it away.

These days, I'll put the line pressure to where I need it to be to get desired carbonation, and let it pressurize then I roll the keg on my lap for a few minutes with the keg line still attached, then let it sit for 24hr attached at the same pressure.

This for the most part gets you to where you need to be, but its good to test it often, till you get where you need to be.

Force carbing via "set and forget" or "30psi and shake".. either way, you need to leave the gas line connected.

BTW, I tried the 30 psi and shake method.. it always seems to overcarbonate my beer. I've found that if you hook up the gas at the serving pressure, and just give it a quick shake when you walk by, it'll be carbonated in just a few days. I haven't overcarbed with this method yet; it always comes out just right.

I normally hook up the gas, crank the pressure to about 15 psi for a week or so, then lower it to serving pressure and drink.....

I can pour a pint, leave it, and 20 minutes later it still has co2 bubbling up......

works great

So for most ales, what is the correct serving pressure? 10-12psi?

Beavdowg said:

So for most ales, what is the correct serving pressure? 10-12psi?

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most ales is 10-12psi.
I do not like the shake method of carbing, I would rather do 30psi for 2 days, or set and forget.
I leave my gas line connected and on.

Arkador said:

most ales is 10-12psi.
I do not like the shake method of carbing, I would rather do 30psi for 2 days, or set and forget.
I leave my gas line connected and on.

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Yeah, that's what I do. If I'm not in a hurry, I set it at 12 psi and wait a week or two. If I'm in a hurry, I set it at 30 psi for a day or two, purge and reset to 12 psi. Shaking just seems to cause overcarbonation for me.

Beavdowg said:

So for most ales, what is the correct serving pressure? 10-12psi?

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It's based on what temp your beer is stored at. Check out the chart Keg Carbonation Chart

YooperBrew said:

Yeah, that's what I do. If I'm not in a hurry, I set it at 12 psi and wait a week or two. If I'm in a hurry, I set it at 30 psi for a day or two, purge and reset to 12 psi. Shaking just seems to cause overcarbonation for me.

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Is purging, just releasing the valve a couple times, or completely letting it all out?

Purging is releasing the pressure in the head space all the way. That will not completely decarbonate the beer because the pressure will build up again as CO2 comes out of solution.

on the keg carbonation charts, whats the time frame? i see desired volume/temp/pressure but no time frame. Am i missing something?

I’m new to kegging and am still looking for my system. This is what I plan to do with my Saison coming up next:

Chill to 38 degrees.
Hit it w/ 30 psi and shake for 2 minutes.
Purge the headspace.
Set to serving psi (somewhere between 8 and 15, depending on style) and wait.

How long I’ll have to wait, I don’t know. Any predictions?

Ton said:

on the keg carbonation charts, whats the time frame? i see desired volume/temp/pressure but no time frame. Am i missing something?

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Usually, it'll get to the desired carbonation in a week or two.

Judochop said:

I’m new to kegging and am still looking for my system. This is what I plan to do with my Saison coming up next:

Chill to 38 degrees.
Hit it w/ 30 psi and shake for 2 minutes.
Purge the headspace.
Set to serving psi (somewhere between 8 and 15, depending on style) and wait.

How long I’ll have to wait, I don’t know. Any predictions?

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I don't know. I'm not a shaker. I just put it on the gas (30 psi) for about 24-36 hours, then purge and set at 12 psi. It's ready in 2-3 days that way.

YooperBrew said:

I just put it on the gas (30 psi) for about 24-36 hours, then purge and set at 12 psi. It's ready in 2-3 days that way.

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Does that 2-3 days include the 24-36 hours @ 30 psi? 2-3 days total?

If so, that ain't bad. It's awfully tempting to give 'er a shake when I know that is speeding things up, but I might be able to tolerate the rigors if it's only 3 days max.

Once you're purged back down to the chart pressure, you can shake it all you want and it will never absorb more CO2 than the chart says. It will speed up absorption though. It's shaking at the elevated pressure that you want to avoid.

Yooper's method will give you the results you want, and I wouldn't rush it anymore than that. If you can, don't drink it all and let some it sit for another week or two and you'll be happier with the results.

I usually set the lid with 30psi, purge twice fill again and chill. After keg is cold then I hook up to 30 psi for 36-48 hours and purge, set for 8-10 psi and drink. I just acquired a second tank/reg so I might just set them at serving pressure in the future and let them be.

Many different methods out there and mostly they all get you to the end game.

Big10Seaner said:

Yooper's method will give you the results you want, and I wouldn't rush it anymore than that. If you can, don't drink it all and let some it sit for another week or two and you'll be happier with the results.

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Yeah, I go the 30psi for two days, 12psi for a week route, too. It is drinkable at the end of the week, but it can get shockingly good a couple of weeks later. Almost like a different beer. I don't know if it is aging, or carbonic acid buildup.

I have read many of the post on this web site and watched video on youtube about force carbonation. I have a little brewery in San Miguel De Allende, Mexico and am having no luck. I have tried both ways to force carbonate. I just bought a beer gun to do bottling but with not much luck. The first batch i did was a stout that i set at around 20psi for 3 days and them dropped it to 12 over a 4 day drop of 2psi each day. the beer was a little flat but could not stay in the keg longer. The next thing i did was made some root beer so that if i did not work out my losses would not be so great. This time i set the psi at 20 and let it sit for a week, then i slowly went down to 10 psi over a week. The root beer came out hard on the tap with large bubbles and after about a minute the gas was gone and tasted flat. i waited a few more days and it seem to be better but when i went to bottle it i was getting crazy amounts of fome and when opening them up the next day, THEY ARE ALL FLAT! the elevation here is 6500ft, not sure if that would have something to do with it but i really need help. and if someone is an expert please send me an email camjamy at yahoo.com

camjamy said:

I have read many of the post on this web site and watched video on youtube about force carbonation. I have a little brewery in San Miguel De Allende, Mexico and am having no luck. I have tried both ways to force carbonate. I just bought a beer gun to do bottling but with not much luck. The first batch i did was a stout that i set at around 20psi for 3 days and them dropped it to 12 over a 4 day drop of 2psi each day. the beer was a little flat but could not stay in the keg longer. The next thing i did was made some root beer so that if i did not work out my losses would not be so great. This time i set the psi at 20 and let it sit for a week, then i slowly went down to 10 psi over a week. The root beer came out hard on the tap with large bubbles and after about a minute the gas was gone and tasted flat. i waited a few more days and it seem to be better but when i went to bottle it i was getting crazy amounts of fome and when opening them up the next day, THEY ARE ALL FLAT! the elevation here is 6500ft, not sure if that would have something to do with it but i really need help. and if someone is an expert please send me an email camjamy at yahoo.com

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The root beer should be carbed up much higher than beer- closer to 30 psi. You'll need a long line to serve that, though- as you see a higher pressure can be explosive and "knock" the gas out of suspension. You'll need about 30 feet of 3/16" line for the soda to not foam and lose carbonation.

The other thing- it takes time for the beer to absorb the co2 the way we're describing. It will take a week or two, minimum. If you need it faster, you'll have to use higher pressures and learn through trial and error.

In the case of the stout, setting it at 10 psi and 38 degrees would carb it up pretty well in two weeks.

thank you for the advice. I just want to clarify about the root beer. Are you saying to force carb. at 30 psi, but when i serve it i will need to run it through a 30' line so that i comes out well? if that is correct then you just saved me a large headache because i was going to gun it through a 4' kegorator line. Thanks again!

So I just purchased a basic kegging kit, ball lock corny keg, co2 tank, and picnic tap with the understanding I wouldn’t have to wait a week or two for the carbonation process. I’m a little confused by the different posts. I thought the purpose of getting the kegging kit is so you could force carbonate and have ready to drink beer. I see some people saying they hit it with 30 psi for 24-36 hours and then wait a week a 12 psi. What’s the point of doing this when you can use the sugar to get the same result?

I’ve always had great beer using sugar, but hated waiting that extra week or two for carbonation which is why I got the kegging system.

camjamy said:

thank you for the advice. I just want to clarify about the root beer. Are you saying to force carb. at 30 psi, but when i serve it i will need to run it through a 30' line so that i comes out well? if that is correct then you just saved me a large headache because i was going to gun it through a 4' kegorator line. Thanks again!

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Yes. The correct way to dispense a carbonated drink is to keep it at the correct pressure all the time (anyone who uses the phrase "lower it to dispensing pressure" is doing it wrong) and have enough beer line to counteract that pressure. The beer line resists the flow of liquid and keeps it from blasting out of the tap as a glass of foam. It's called balancing - there are several threads on it.

A rough rule of thumb is one foot of 3/16" line per psi of drink. I have ~12 foot lines on my beer taps. Soda will take 30 or 40 feet.

Wait, what? I have never seen a kegerator with 10-20 feet of line running through it, so this doesn't make any sense (yes I realize this is an older thread). If I were to run my kegerator at 12psi to serve I would have a mess everywhere, therefore I must bring it down to "dispensing pressure" as you call it. There's no other way to do it, so I don't understand how I could be doing it wrong. There's not even anywhere in my kegerator for me to RUN that much additional beer line. I think that might apply to a bar/tasting room setup where the beer is coming from the cooler to the taps, but it doesn't add up when you're talking about a home serving setup. Can you expound?

I think Kaiser442 was thinking 1/4" tube is ~1psi/foot, 3/16th is 3psi/foot.

here is a good write up from beersmith

jroth420 said:

Wait, what? I have never seen a kegerator with 10-20 feet of line running through it, so this doesn't make any sense

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You've never seen a kegerator that was balanced properly.

My numbers for resistance may have been off - it looks like the 3/16" resistance is listed at 2.2-3psi per foot.

Regardless, I run my system at about 14psi and I have 12 foot long Bevlex-200 3/16"ID lines coming out of each keg. I get a nice pour every time, as long as I open the tap all the way (partially open taps cause foam)

As to where to put the extra tube - it really doesn't take up much space, and 12' isn't really very long. You can make a little coil and stick it on top of each keg or just shove it wherever it fits.

Just try it... seriously.

jroth420 said:

Wait, what? I have never seen a kegerator with 10-20 feet of line running through it, so this doesn't make any sense (yes I realize this is an older thread). If I were to run my kegerator at 12psi to serve I would have a mess everywhere, therefore I must bring it down to "dispensing pressure" as you call it. There's no other way to do it, so I don't understand how I could be doing it wrong. There's not even anywhere in my kegerator for me to RUN that much additional beer line. I think that might apply to a bar/tasting room setup where the beer is coming from the cooler to the taps, but it doesn't add up when you're talking about a home serving setup. Can you expound?

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If you set the serving pressure lower than the equilibrium pressure from carbonation, the CO2 will want to come out of solution, and will typically form pockets of gas in the line, creating excess foam on the first pour of every drinking session. Even if that doesn't happen, with each pour the carbonation will be reduced slightly, until it reaches equilibrium with the lower "dispensing" pressure. If you want to prevent foamy first pours, and maintain the carbonation level of your beer, you need to keep the serving pressure at the carbonation equilibrium pressure.

Most kegerators come with ~5' of 3/16" beer line. This is because they assume commercial serving parameters (carb level <2.8 vol and temp <38°). The warmer or more highly carbonated the beer is, the slower/gentler the pour needs to be to prevent excessive foaming. Since many homebrewers prefer serving temps around 40°, longer lines are needed to slow the flow down slightly and prevent foaming.

And 10-15' of 3/16" beer line coils up neatly on top of the keg, taking up hardly any room at all. From what I've read here, most of the brewers on this forum run 8-15' of line, so it's neither impossible or uncommon.

Bsquared said:

I think Kaiser442 was thinking 1/4" tube is ~1psi/foot, 3/16th is 3psi/foot.

here is a good write up from beersmith

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Those resistance figures are only valid for a flow rate of 1 gal/min. This is the flow rate that is assumed for commercial systems, and what you'll end up with if you use the calculators, equations and flawed advice in articles such as the one you linked.

While 1gal/min is the fastest a beer stored at 36° and carbed to 2.7 vol can be poured without excessive foaming, it's not ideal for most homebrewers. At warmer temps or higher carb levels, it's too fast and will result in foamy pours. The only side effect of extra long lines is very slightly slower pours, but they allow the user to pour beer at a wider variety of carb levels and serving temps. For a bar where the number of pints you can pour in an hour has an effect on profit, pouring as fast as possible is probably important. For most homebrewers, having a flexible system capable of pouring at a wide variety of serving temps and carb levels is probably more important.

So, I feel like something's missing from the chart as well. Sure, the beer will carb eventually, but that's not what we're talking about here. i did notice that the colder you carb, the less pressure you need. again, no mention of time.

for grins tell me what you think and what you'd change. i just kegged a stout. should be about 8% ABV. started it at 30 psi and 70*. chilling it to 40*. will purge and set to serving pressure in the morning to see how things are going.

Also, how long should I wait after I purge to set to serving temp? it will throw off CO2 once I purge it down. Should I wait a minute or two, purge again?

FYI this is my 3rd keg batch and LOVE kegging!

Cheers!

denverd1 said:

So, I feel like something's missing from the chart as well. Sure, the beer will carb eventually, but that's not what we're talking about here. i did notice that the colder you carb, the less pressure you need. again, no mention of time.

for grins tell me what you think and what you'd change. i just kegged a stout. should be about 8% ABV. started it at 30 psi and 70*. chilling it to 40*. will purge and set to serving pressure in the morning to see how things are going.

Also, how long should I wait after I purge to set to serving temp? it will throw off CO2 once I purge it down. Should I wait a minute or two, purge again?

FYI this is my 3rd keg batch and LOVE kegging!

Cheers!

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The set and forget method usually takes anywhere from 7-18 days to reach full carbonation, depending on desired carb level, FG, ABV, etc. Beers with a higher desired carb level will obviously take longer, as will beers with a higher SG or ABV.

I'm a bit confused about what you're asking regarding purging though. Set the pressure to whatever matches the desired carb level and beer temp. If you're carbing at room temp, once you're ready to serve it, simply disconnect the gas, put the keg in the kegerator/keezer, and when it's chilled to temp reconnect the gas at the new lower pressure.

I'm carbing at 40* - because I don't know any better.

My question is since i'm carbing at that temp, what should the pressure to get it to full carbonation in 24 hrs.

denverd1 said:

I'm carbing at 40* - because I don't know any better.

My question is since i'm carbing at that temp, what should the pressure to get it to full carbonation in 24 hrs.

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Nothing wrong with 40 degrees, that's the temp I carb and serve my beers at.

There are way too many variables to be able to calculate a pressure that will result in full carbonation that fast. Even if that weren't the case, we'd still need to know what your target carbonation level is first.

If you really need full carbonation in 24hrs or less, you either need to use a carb stone, or you need to set it to the equilibrium pressure and shake the keg until it stops absorbing gas. If you simply want a faster method than set and forget but don't want to deal with a carb stone, I'd suggest ~30 psi for 24-36 hrs (depending on desired carb level), and then purge and reset to serving pressure. You'll be at full carbonation within a couple days after reducing to serving pressure.

see I know nothing about desired carb level... I need to do some homework. Thanks for answering my stupid questions!

The last one I did I think it over-carbed. started causing air to seep into the beer line right out of the keg. So i'm slowly learning by trial and error.

Carb stone??

denverd1 said:

see I know nothing about desired carb level... I need to do some homework. Thanks for answering my stupid questions!

The last one I did I think it over-carbed. started causing air to seep into the beer line right out of the keg. So i'm slowly learning by trial and error.

Carb stone??

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Desired carb level is whatever you want it to be. For reference, Bud/Miller/Coors, and most commercial beer is carbed to 2.7 vol. Most homebrewers who post here (myself included) prefer a little lower carb level, usually 2.4-2.6 vol. Or you can get multiple gas regulators and carb each beer to style.

Once you have a target carb level in mind, you can use a chart like this one to determine what your serving pressure should be. This is also the pressure to use for the set and forget method of carbonation.

A carb stone is like an aquarium stone, but made of stainless steel. They're also used for oxygenating wort prior to fermentation with pure O2, so they're sometimes referred to as O2 stones. They can be secured to the gas diptube on a corny keg with a piece of tubing, or you can even buy a corny lid specifically modified for use with a carb stone. It breaks the CO2 bubbles up so that they're super tiny, significantly increasing the surface area in contact with the gas, and decreasing the time it takes for the gas to absorb. This is how most commercial beer is carbonated. If you use a carb stone and start at 1-2 psi (at serving temp), then increase the pressure 1 psi every hour or two until you reach serving pressure, the beer will be carbed within 24 hrs. Here's what they look like-

To add a wrench into the conversation, I read an article saying to hook the gas into the "out" side of the keg so you can carbinate through the bottom up. I have never heard/seen this before and wondering if anyone does this.

http://www.homebrew.com/articles/article12018101.shtml

Without a carb stone as shown above, hooking the gas to the "out" post is silly. It's just going to bubble (big bubbles) up to the top and collect there anyways, with probably not a whole lot of CO2 going into solution on the way up. I suppose someone could do a side-by-side to confirm my assumption, but it's not on my list of important things to do.

I've found the set and forget method the easiest way to get the best results. If you can't wait that long you need to buy more kegs and brew more so you can just rotate them through!


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First...JuanMoore, Thanks!! I used to be that generous with penmaking info. Are there different levels of carbonation for different styles and a possible link? I'm doing my first kegging Saturday of a milk stout. This will help!! Denverd1...you ask good questions!

So here's my plan...5gal Milk Stout, force carbonation at 10psi at 55*...subject to better knowledge...for about a week. Disconnect and serve at 5psi and reconnect as needed. Question...why does the length of the serving hose matter...I'm clueless on this one so education please?

StalkingWilbur said:

I've found the set and forget method the easiest way to get the best results. If you can't wait that long you need to buy more kegs and brew more so you can just rotate them through!

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After this first keg...that's the plan!!