All Grain Märzen/Oktoberfest Recipe Thoughts?

I'm planning on brewing a Märzen next week, and was hoping I could get some feedback on my first Märzen lager recipe.

Batch Size: 10 Gallons
Est. OG: 1.058
IBUs: 24.6
Color: 10.1 SRM

Efficiency: 70%

Grain Bill:
9# Pilsner (39.1%)
9# Vienna Malt (39.1%)
3# Munich Malt (13%)
1# Melanoiden Malt (4.3%)
1# Crystal 80 (4.3%)

Single Infusion Mash @ 153º for 60'

Hop Schedule (90 minute boil):
1.75oz Mt. Hood [6% AA] @ 60'
.5oz Tettnang [4.5% AA] @ 60'
.25oz Mt. Hood @ 15'
.25oz Tettnang @ 10'

Yeast: Bavarian Lager (Wyeast #2206)

Notes: I'm most likely using untreated (but filtered) Raleigh water. It seems to be high in temporary hardness.

Also, we usually do a fly sparge, but debating a batch sparge this time. BeerSmith is telling me to do 4 steps: Drain MLT, sparge 3.09 gallons, sparge 3.09 gallons, sparge 3.09 gallons w/ 168º. Thoughts on this would be helpful? The reason for the possible switch is 1) Maybe save time? 2) We're going to upgrade our system in the near future which will require a batch sparge (long story) and we'd like to practice--although 10 gallons is a lot to screw up. 70% efficiency is based on our typical fly sparge.

Thanks!

Regarding the batch sparge, I think it should be a huge time saver. I'm not sure about your 4 steps though. I calculate my mash-in and sparge water some that both yield the same volume. So, you mash-in with .5*(pre-boil volume) + (water absorbed by grain) + (dead space in mash tun). Then sparge/mash-out with .5*(pre-boil volume). Here's the steps I do:
1) Mash-in, mash for 60-90 minutes
2) drain mash tun to kettle
3) Add sparge/mash-out water
4) Drain mash tun to kettle

I usually start to heat my boil kettle after the first runnings, so I can get to boiling not long after the second runnings.

EDIT: You may end up with a mash that is a little thin this way. To avoid this I use the batch sparge calculator here: http://onebeer.net/batchspargecalc.shtml

Just say no to that crystal 80. I'd also nix the melanoiden or at least drop it way back.

BigEd said:

Just say no to that crystal 80. I'd also nix the melanoiden or at least drop it way back.

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BigEd, what's the reason for no Crystal 80? Would Caramunich be better? Or is the combo of it + melanoiden that is bad?

Also, I had read many instances where melanoiden malt was good to add if you weren't doing a decoction mash. Is this wrong? In this case, I have 1# for 10 gallons, which I thought was already pretty scaled back. Do you have insight I'm missing?

My preference is for the rich maltier versions of Märzen, like Hacker Pschorr.

Slarkin712, thanks for the info on the batch sparge.

methodbeer said:

BigEd, what's the reason for no Crystal 80? Would Caramunich be better? Or is the combo of it + melanoiden that is bad?

Also, I had read many instances where melanoiden malt was good to add if you weren't doing a decoction mash. Is this wrong? In this case, I have 1# for 10 gallons, which I thought was already pretty scaled back. Do you have insight I'm missing?

My preference is for the rich maltier versions of Märzen, like Hacker Pschorr.

Slarkin712, thanks for the info on the batch sparge.

Click to expand...

Melanoinden malt does not equal a decotion mash. Crystal 80 is just out of place in an Oktoberfest. A brew like Hasker-Pschorr Oktoberfest is going to highlight the base malts of Vienna and Munich not crystal malts. An American version of an Oktoberfest (perhaps an oversimplification but think Sam Adams) is going to be heavily influenced by specialty malts as opposed to Hacker-Pcshorr or Ayinger which is going to be biased to the base malts of Vienna & Munich.

BigEd, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate the help. I definitely don't want to taste like Sam Adams.

I wonder if I swap the amount of Munich malt with Vienna malt, if I could achieve the darker color. Or go for 6# of each and 9# Pils. Would you suggest that? I didn't think the melanoiden was a 1:1 for decoction mash, but I figured it'd boost the maltiness, add some color, and give it some of the caramelization that I might miss in not doing a decoction. I am doing a 90' boil, so perhaps there'd be enough from that alone.

methodbeer said:

BigEd, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate the help. I definitely don't want to taste like Sam Adams.

I wonder if I swap the amount of Munich malt with Vienna malt, if I could achieve the darker color. Or go for 6# of each and 9# Pils. Would you suggest that? I didn't think the melanoiden was a 1:1 for decoction mash, but I figured it'd boost the maltiness, add some color, and give it some of the caramelization that I might miss in not doing a decoction. I am doing a 90' boil, so perhaps there'd be enough from that alone.

Click to expand...

If you are looking for a darker brew I would use a higher percentage of Munich. You don't say whose malts you are using but a German dark Munich like Weyermann Type II is a good choice for a base. The typical modern Festbiers are lighter in color and seem to use more pils and Vienna than Munich but I like the darker, richer more traditional style. I've done a lot of different malt ratios over the years and my favorite is 70% Munich II and 30% Pilsner.

+1 need more Munich, I just did 50% with mine, and I think I should have maybe went a little higher. I like big Ed's 70/30 idea.

Thanks again BigEd and Bashiba. I might try the ~70% Munich. It is Weyerman, but I'm not sure which one. It's 10L--I assume that's Munich II.

I see nothing wrong with 4.3% crystal malt for an Octoberfest. Vienna lager...yes, Octoberfest...no. I'm a big fan of 60% Vienna, 30% Munich and 10% crystal. Doing it myself in November.
BJCP: German Vienna Malt (bulk), Munich malt, some crystal. Noble hops. High carbonate water (see Munich water profile). Decoction mashing often used.