Keezer builds and circulation fans.

I have seen a couple of examples of recirculation fans on here that were mounted to the lid of a chest keezer and I have been thinking of doing the same but at the same time I want to place it in the bottom of the keezer to pump cold air to the top of the unit and was wondering if any of you have some good ideas of placement for a fan?

I believe I am just gonna go with a 120v muffin fan and wire it directly into my ranco on the output side of the relay so that when the fridge kicks on the fan will as well. Any better ideas on that?

Thanks,

-huK

Def. the right route using the 120v muffin fan, rather than messing around with 12v ones and having to strip a power supply. (Keeps it a lot neater.)

While it makes more sense physically to have the fan on the bottom (since cold air sinks, so that's where the coldest zone will be) I think the internals of a keezer are small enough that it doesnt' really matter - the fans not really forcing cold air up, per se, it's just keeping it circulating.

Also, a lot of folks pop it on the lid because there's no condenser coils to punch through.

This looks like a nice fan but I am not sure what the temperature rating on these fans.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026389.html

I have my 120 vac muffin fan mounted to the lid and it works just fine. I don't think the position of the fan is critical as it only needs to circulate the cold air. Mounting it on the lid also keeps it out of the way and away from any condensation that may accumulate. I've also found that running the fan full time works best. The fan I have is only 22 watts which I estimate to cost about 5 cents a day to run. I doubt you will find a temp rating on any of the fans and I wouldn't be concerned about it.

Sounds like mounting it on the lid of the keezer is definitely the way to go. I guess I could either wire the fan into the ranco on the output or the input side of the ranco to get the desired results just to make it look clean. I did see on that site with the fan I mentioned previously that they do have an optional 2 prong plug that would make the setup sufficiently clean with a power strip I suppose.

i have no data to be sure, but i would expect that the cost of running the fan continuously would be less than what you would save by running the fridge condensor more often for short times. cheaper overall to run the fan full time, and temp will be more even.

Well with this 12W fan running constantly for 24 hours a day/365 days a year it would draw about 105.12kW. I haven't checked my latest power bill to see what a kW of power cost lately but I guess I could.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026389.html

I definitely agree with your opinion that operating the freezers compressor would draw more power than the fan and cost more in the long run.

I have this particular freezer but unfortunately they do not say how many watts the compressor draws during operation they only give the energy guide rating which won't be accurate once the temperature is kept well above 0'F.

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=FCM15SUWW

I am thinking now that running the fan full time is definitely the way to go and will give a more constant temperature within the freezer at all times.

hukdizzle said:

Well with this 12W fan running constantly for 24 hours a day/365 days a year it would draw about 105.12kW. I haven't checked my latest power bill to see what a kW of power cost lately but I guess I could.

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Honestly, I never thought about running the fan 24/7, thinking that it wouldn't be efficient.

I had a look around and found an interesting article on a guy who converted a pretty common freezer and used a Ranco to control it to 38 degrees. He wasn't using it as a keezer, but as a replacement for a fridge, in an attempt to go as low energy as possible (looks like he was on solar and trying to go off the grid):

Finally, I wanted to know what was actually going on with power draw, so I bought a Kill-A-Watt juice measuring device here

. I’ve had everything hooked up for three days or so now, and here’s my take: As a proof of concept, it does work fine. The freezer, set to maintain a temperature of 38 degrees farenheit, does so. It uses about 350 watts per day, or more than three times what the Oz guy claims to get. Still, that is a gigantic improvement over a standard fridge

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So he's using his freezer, without a fan, and drawing 350 watts per day. That 12W fan, running 24 hours, would draw almost that on it's own - 280 watts?

ubermick said:

Honestly, I never thought about running the fan 24/7, thinking that it wouldn't be efficient.

I had a look around and found an interesting article on a guy who converted a pretty common freezer and used a Ranco to control it to 38 degrees. He wasn't using it as a keezer, but as a replacement for a fridge, in an attempt to go as low energy as possible (looks like he was on solar and trying to go off the grid):

So he's using his freezer, without a fan, and drawing 350 watts per day. That 12W fan, running 24 hours, would draw almost that on it's own - 280 watts?

Click to expand...

That is quite interesting... I actually plan on utilizing my Ranco to keep my chest freezer at 38'F as well. I think without a doubt that circulation of air within the chest freezer will allow shorter compressor running times and even though we're increasing our watt usage by 280 watts per day we are decreasing the compressor run time due to it not having to run as long to reach thermal equilibrium so we may be at a wash as far as power consumption is concerned.

If my assumptions are correct then I think the only thing we are left with are the well known benefits of utilizing a circulation fan within a keezer/fermentation chamber. I am definitely going to be installing one in my keezer and I think I will run it full time and see how everything goes.

Can you guys elaborate on how you affixed the fan to the lid of your keezer? I assume you guys didn't bolt all the way through the lid on the keezer, more likely you bolted/screwed it to the plastic panel inside? Pictures would be appreciated if you have them.

My plan so far is to mount the fan in the direct center above the deep section of the chest freezer. I plan to probably mount it with flow pointing upward to draw cold air up. I figure that using 1" aluminum stand offs between the fan and the inside of the lid should be enough room for the fan to distribute air to the top of the chest freezer.

I used toggle bolts with some nylon spacers to mount the fan to the lid. I ran power to it with a section of lamp cord and one of the snap on type plugs. I have a power strip mounted on the wall behind the freezer which it and the freezer plug into along with some other stuff. I have the fan positioned to blow downward, but I doubt it makes any difference one way or the other.

It would probably cost you somewhere around $12 per year to run the fan full time. I also think that running the fan full time will be less energy efficient as you will be more uniformly cooling not only the freezer compartment, but also the shanks, taps and the collar itself. The cooling will be more uniform, but the losses through the collar etc will be higher. The compressor will likely run more frequently, not less. It does on my setup, but keeping the kegs,taps and beer lines uniformly cooled is important to me and worth any extra cost.

I am totally not convinced that running the little 12 watt fan 27/7 would come anywhere close to the cost of running the freezer compressor, of course, much depends on the ambient temperatures the freezer is countering. The fridge I have in my garage only very seldom runs during the cooler seasons. Using it in a garage during July in southern Arizona would be a different story, so as usual, it all depends.

That looks like almost exactly what I had envisioned. Great tip of the toggle bolts, I will definitely use those.

I have to agree with you about the functionality of the keezer. My main goal of course is just to maintain an optimal, uniform environment inside to keep all components consistently cold. Power consumption levels that are marginally higher aren't really much of a concern to me if the benefits are apparently evident.

I'm certain you will be pleased with the results. Keep in mind that you can always change the fan to run intermittently later if you want to. You can also flip the fan over and blow the air in the opposite direction if desired.

I'm stoked, thanks for the help Catt.

I feel though it wouldn't be a proper keezer without some bling inside to go along with the perlick bling on the outside so I nominate this aluminum black fan guard to my build as well.

http://www.coolerguys.com/120almmesh.html

Not to mention the fact that it will keep my drunken keg shuffling safe from ripped out hair and cut up phalanges, it will look hella cool as well .

I am using a 5" muffin fan in the bottom of my keezer. With the lid of the keezer closed you can barely hear it run. I run mine 24/7. I built a 5"x5"x5" stand for mine out of chicken wire, so that it has little resistance to pull cold air from the bottom and blow it upward. I have a 2x8 collar on mine and at the top of the keezer, the temp was 17 deg. warmer than 8" off the bottom. Can't hurt to add one, it can only help.

Hey Catt were you able to pick up the proper sized bolts and toggle nuts at your local hardware store? If it was a large nation chain can you tell me which one? I just ordered my fan, fan grill, and cord today.

I bought the toggle bolts at the local hardware store, but they should also have them at Home Depot or Lowes. I also bought the nylon spacers at the local store.You will want to get the 1/8" x 4" toggles. The extra length is needed so you can fold back the toggle bolt wings all the way. IIRC, the 3" toggles were too short, but you may find that you need to cut the 4" ones back some so that you can tighten them up all the way. It depends on how much room you have above the plastic lid liner. Measure carefully as once you insert the toggle wings through the hole you cannot remove it without losing the wing piece and you will have to make another trip to buy another toggle. Maybe buy a couple of extra toggle bolts just in case.

So you guys are using a 120V AC fan instead of a DC fan, correct? I was told in another thread that using an AC fan in a moist environment isn't such a great idea and that a DC fan is a much safer option. As I have both a DC and an AC fan, I was wondering which one to use and if you have run in to any issues?

I use only 12VDC fans in my keezer and brewery fridges.
Mostly because I had accumulated them from scrapping my old peecees over the years, and they're pretty efficient (typically 2W at full voltage).
But low voltage DC is definitely safer in damp-to-wet environments than household AC.

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

I use only 12VDC fans in my keezer and brewery fridges.
Mostly because I had accumulated them from scrapping my old peecees over the years, and they're pretty efficient (typically 2W at full voltage).
But low voltage DC is definitely safer in damp-to-wet environments than household AC.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance but why are AC fans not safe in damp to wet environments? I plan to mount a dehumidifier inside as well. I'm just worried my small DC fan won't be strong enough to circulate the air. My AC fan is much bigger and quite hoss at moving air around. FYI this is the DC fan I have.........

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00080G0BK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Holy Necro Thread Batman!!!

k1ngl1ves said:

Holy Necro Thread Batman!!!

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Yea that tends to happen when you play catch up after spending a LOOONG time in the sand box. Sorry fellas!

donshizzles said:

Yea that tends to happen when you play catch up after spending a LOOONG time in the sand box. Sorry fellas!

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I've done it myself, thread was almost as old too. :smack:

The fan you show is a 5V fan. USB supplies only 5V, and that is a pretty small fan. If you use a 12V DC fan like this it will move quite a lot more air than that cute little 5V one. You can use a ~2 amp DC inverter to drive them like shown here.

donshizzles said:

Pardon my ignorance but why are AC fans not safe in damp to wet environments?[...]

Click to expand...

You could stand in your kid's wading pool and grab onto the output leads of a typical 12VDC wall wart and not even feel a tingle. Otoh...don't try that holding the stripped ends of a line cord plugged into your home's 120VAC. Household AC can kill and is best avoided in wet situations, period.

I plan to mount a dehumidifier inside as well. I'm just worried my small DC fan won't be strong enough to circulate the air. My AC fan is much bigger and quite hoss at moving air around. FYI this is the DC fan I have.........

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00080G0BK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

That fan will be plenty to keep the air moving in even the largest chest freezer. You're not looking for a tornado, you're simply preventing temperature stratification...

Cheers!

I just finished my keezer build and I had a recirc set up for my tower kegerator that this replaced, so I took that and installed it temp for the time being. Seems to be doing the job.